AME shortage?

[Crossthreaded]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.

Not many ames don’t travel from my experience

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Exactly, but that reply is typical of the ones who defend this business. Those of us who want to live as a part of society are doing it wrong, as he implies.

I guess $35 a hr is lottery money when you're not paying rent/mortgage showering in truck stops, and shitting in a bucket down by the river.

Yeah, Im missing out

His shop rate was $35/hr?????

[digits_]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

[PitchLink]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

I don’t see where they’re talking about this guy anywhere in this thread

[chowda]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

Firstly, who's denying him the chance?

Secondly, his entire post is full of his replies on how much he's into doing nothing except airplanes, and going deeper for aircraft owners/aviation than anybody else to make the owners happy.

Oh yeah, his original brainstorm was to do this while employed by the very company who maintains the aircraft he wants to go after. He couldn't grasp that this would set him for for dismissal without severance.

Most of it is nauseating and he sounded particularly naive.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

Firstly, who's denying him the chance?

Secondly, his entire post is full of his replies on how much he's into doing nothing except airplanes, and going deeper for aircraft owners/aviation than anybody else to make the owners happy.

Oh yeah, his original brainstorm was to do this while employed by the very company who maintains the aircraft he wants to go after. He couldn't grasp that this would set him for for dismissal without severance.

Most of it is nauseating and he sounded particularly naive.

He’s not the only one, this is what experienced guys that just want to do their job and make a decent wage are up against. I sure AF won’t be living in a van and delivering pizzas!

[PitchLink]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

Firstly, who's denying him the chance?

Secondly, his entire post is full of his replies on how much he's into doing nothing except airplanes, and going deeper for aircraft owners/aviation than anybody else to make the owners happy.

Oh yeah, his original brainstorm was to do this while employed by the very company who maintains the aircraft he wants to go after. He couldn't grasp that this would set him for for dismissal without severance.

Most of it is nauseating and he sounded particularly naive.

He’s not the only one, this is what experienced guys that just want to do their job and make a decent wage are up against. I sure AF won’t be living in a van and delivering pizzas!

Living in a van, yeesh

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Here, the AME shortage is solved PHEW!

https://emigratecanada.com/immigrate-to ... -mechanic/

[PitchLink]

Here, the AME shortage is solved PHEW!

https://emigratecanada.com/immigrate-to ... -mechanic/

I’m seeing that lots, it’s unfortunate because these programs are largely setting these poor guys up for failure. But with experience waning what choice does Canada have…… but increase average wages to approximately acceptable levels

[Bug_Stomper_01]

It’s here to stay. But aviation in Canada is literally in the boiler room of the sewer right now imo

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Here, the AME shortage is solved PHEW!

https://emigratecanada.com/immigrate-to ... -mechanic/

I’m seeing that lots, it’s unfortunate because these programs are largely setting these poor guys up for failure. But with experience waning what choice does Canada have…… but increase average wages to approximately acceptable levels

It’s not just aviation, this is workforce wide

[PitchLink]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.

At what personal penalty? I don’t agree at all, I’ve done it.

[digits_]

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.

A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.

At what personal penalty? I don’t agree at all, I’ve done it.

?
About the same as any other job.

Travelling AME doesn't mean drive 2000 km to your next customer. I'd pay extra to have an AME come out to my airplane instead of having to fly to another airport and waste time with driving back and forth. Charge for travel, save on a hangar. That shouldn't have a negative affect on your personal life. Might be more uncomfortable to work in cold wind instead of a heated hangar, but that's a choice you can make an charge for accordingly.

[PitchLink]

Have you done it digits? Also what kind of aircraft are you maintaining?

[digits_]

Have you done it digits? Also what kind of aircraft are you maintaining?

Nope. However the happiest mechanic I know is one who has been doing exactly this for over 30 years.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Have you done it digits? Also what kind of aircraft are you maintaining?

Nope. However the happiest mechanic I know is one who has been doing exactly this for over 30 years.

One in a billion… what do you work on? Are you an AME?

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Error / Deleted

[PitchLink]

Have you done it digits? Also what kind of aircraft are you maintaining?

Nope. However the happiest mechanic I know is one who has been doing exactly this for over 30 years.

What does he work on? What is his pay and schedule like? What part of Canada does he work in? What type of amo does he work for?

[digits_]

Have you done it digits? Also what kind of aircraft are you maintaining?

Nope. However the happiest mechanic I know is one who has been doing exactly this for over 30 years.

What does he work on? What is his pay and schedule like? What part of Canada does he work in? What type of amo does he work for?

703 stuff and private planes. He owns his own AMO. He sets his own pay and schedule.

[rookiepilot]

Nope. However the happiest mechanic I know is one who has been doing exactly this for over 30 years.

What does he work on? What is his pay and schedule like? What part of Canada does he work in? What type of amo does he work for?

703 stuff and private planes. He owns his own AMO. He sets his own pay and schedule.

Smart. That’s the way. Take control.

But most won’t ever be willing to go down that road.

[SeptRepair]

Travelling AME doesn't mean drive 2000 km to your next customer. I'd pay extra to have an AME come out to my airplane instead of having to fly to another airport and waste time with driving back and forth. Charge for travel, save on a hangar. That shouldn't have a negative affect on your personal life. Might be more uncomfortable to work in cold wind instead of a heated hangar, but that's a choice you can make an charge for accordingly.

I have done this type of work. It is a fucking miserable way to make money. Not saying your friend isnt happy, but for me laying on the cold ground/dirt in a T hanger because the owner doesn't want any inconvenience of having to make arrangements to bring the aircraft to me after awhile got very old. You say charge accordingly. Does 115$ an hour sound reasonable to drive, spend time setting up, perform the work, clean up and drive back home each day sound like a deal? Typical annual with a couple snags is a 3 day ordeal. Based on a 10hr day of which maybe 6-7 of it is on the aircraft and the rest driving. Not working a longer day, because we need to talk overtime premiums. This puts the annual at about 3500$ for labour alone. You would pay that rate willingly on your 172? ( just picking an aircraft, have no idea what you own).

[digits_]

Travelling AME doesn't mean drive 2000 km to your next customer. I'd pay extra to have an AME come out to my airplane instead of having to fly to another airport and waste time with driving back and forth. Charge for travel, save on a hangar. That shouldn't have a negative affect on your personal life. Might be more uncomfortable to work in cold wind instead of a heated hangar, but that's a choice you can make an charge for accordingly.

I have done this type of work. It is a fucking miserable way to make money. Not saying your friend isnt happy, but for me laying on the cold ground/dirt in a T hanger because the owner doesn't want any inconvenience of having to make arrangements to bring the aircraft to me after awhile got very old. You say charge accordingly. Does 115$ an hour sound reasonable to drive, spend time setting up, perform the work, clean up and drive back home each day sound like a deal? Typical annual with a couple snags is a 3 day ordeal. Based on a 10hr day of which maybe 6-7 of it is on the aircraft and the rest driving. Not working a longer day, because we need to talk overtime premiums. This puts the annual at about 3500$ for labour alone. You would pay that rate willingly on your 172? ( just picking an aircraft, have no idea what you own).

There are a few things that would influence this answer, and which aren't related to 'traveling AME' vs 'hangar AME'. If an annual takes 3 days, then yes, I would pay something like that. I have actually. The issues that would decide if I paid that or not would be:
- what's the hourly rate for other AMEs in the area? I'd be happy to pay a premium for the travel convenience, but I wouldn't pay double for the privilege for example
- how many hours would an other AME spend on the annual?
- do you do quality work?

A bit more about your specific example: 115$ is a rate that you would also pay at some hangar AMEs. There you are paying for a fancy expensive hangar. It would stand to reason that you take that into account when looking at your annual income. Not having to pay 10k for a hangar would be a huge savings. 10 hours of billing for 6 hours of work might be a bit extreme. Obviously if you live 2 hour or 4 hours away from the nearest airport, a travelling AME might not be the best career choice. If there are a few airports within a 1 hour drive, then the 6 hour work / 8 hours billing, might be a better ratio. Then there are the travel costs. If you're already billing me your time for the travelling, then I would expect a rock bottom expenses only mileage rate. Or you could travel with a colleague or employee, cutting your travel/mileage costs in half if you finish the work twice as fast.

From a customer point of view, I see full time AME employees working for 50 CAD / hour. Let's say you want to make 50% more to deal with the risk of being self employed. That would be 75 / hour. That leaves you 40 dollars an hour to deal with the travel expenses and hassle and tooling, but no hangar. Is that feasible? I would think it is. People are certainly doing it. That doesn't mean it's possible in every geographical area, but I wouldn't discourage it if somebody is looking into that market.

[SeptRepair]

There are a few things that would influence this answer, and which aren't related to 'traveling AME' vs 'hangar AME'. If an annual takes 3 days, then yes, I would pay something like that. I have actually. The issues that would decide if I paid that or not would be:
- what's the hourly rate for other AMEs in the area? I'd be happy to pay a premium for the travel convenience, but I wouldn't pay double for the privilege for example
- how many hours would an other AME spend on the annual?
- do you do quality work?

A bit more about your specific example: 115$ is a rate that you would also pay at some hangar AMEs. There you are paying for a fancy expensive hangar. It would stand to reason that you take that into account when looking at your annual income. Not having to pay 10k for a hangar would be a huge savings. 10 hours of billing for 6 hours of work might be a bit extreme. Obviously if you live 2 hour or 4 hours away from the nearest airport, a travelling AME might not be the best career choice. If there are a few airports within a 1 hour drive, then the 6 hour work / 8 hours billing, might be a better ratio. Then there are the travel costs. If you're already billing me your time for the travelling, then I would expect a rock bottom expenses only mileage rate. Or you could travel with a colleague or employee, cutting your travel/mileage costs in half if you finish the work twice as fast.

From a customer point of view, I see full time AME employees working for 50 CAD / hour. Let's say you want to make 50% more to deal with the risk of being self employed. That would be 75 / hour. That leaves you 40 dollars an hour to deal with the travel expenses and hassle and tooling, but no hangar. Is that feasible? I would think it is. People are certainly doing it. That doesn't mean it's possible in every geographical area, but I wouldn't discourage it if somebody is looking into that market.

Lol fancy expensive hanger. Mean electricity and heat? I see what your saying though. I was approaching this from a point of view that I have my own facility. To have me leave my creature comforts to go mobile makes no sense to do you a favour and come to you for anything less than the shop rate I charge. Travel charge btw is .70$/km. Fuel insurance and maintenance on the vehicle is barely covered at that rate.

But with your scenario, I have no hanger nor associated overhead. What I do have, is tooling, liability insurance, a trailer I must own and insure, and a vehicle to pull such a trailer (My little chevy sprint isnt going to cut it). ya ya go buy an old ambulance and convert it. Still costs associated with doing that. Also a place to park that traveling circus. Must keep it stocked up with consumables and hardware etc. You seem to think a guy should be worth 75/hr to completely have all expertise, plus specialized tooling to do the same job as a guy with a hanger? Why the @#$! would I? Ill take my 50 then, work for the man, show up in my sprint at their shop, use all their specialized equipment and go home after 8 hrs and turn my brain off. I get half my CPP covered, EI paid into, Vacation Pay, paid coffee breaks, while all covered under their insurance and WCB. Most shops are offering medical benefits now too. The extra 25/hr would not be worth it.

If you think you are doing this away from your full time job working at an AMO doing the same work, you will eventually have to choose between the two. The choice will most likely be made for you by the AMO when they find out you are under cutting them. Also you had better not be caught using any of their special tooling on your paid coffee break ( spark plug cleaner/tester for example)in the meantime.

Being self employed doesn't end after an 8hr day. The billing, the accounting, parts ordering, parts look up, etc makes everyday longer than 8hrs. Those hours cannot be charged out. Before you say those charges can be recouped by parts mark up, nice try. Most owners want to supply parts or use aircraft spruce as their price point. I don't get any better deal than the private owner buying from them. Being mobile is thankless, guys who do that as a fulltime gig deep down are dying slowly and don't recognize it yet.

Charging 115$ is reasonable for all the reasons discussed here. Guys doing it for less being mobile are most likely cutting corners one way or another.

[digits_]

You seem to think a guy should be worth 75/hr to completely have all expertise, plus specialized tooling to do the same job as a guy with a hanger? Why the @#$! would I? Ill take my 50 then, work for the man, show up in my sprint at their shop, use all their specialized equipment and go home after 8 hrs and turn my brain off. I get half my CPP covered, EI paid into, Vacation Pay, paid coffee breaks, while all covered under their insurance and WCB. Most shops are offering medical benefits now too. The extra 25/hr would not be worth it.

No, read my post again. If you charge 115/hour, and if you want to pay yourself 75/hour, then you have 40/hour left to pay for the tooling and your truck and your accountant etc.

If you don't think that's worth it, that's fine, but that's more a discussion of 'is running my own business' worth it. That's not what we are talking about.
We're discussing the 'travelling AME' (or more accurately a 'travelling AME who doesn't need to pay for a hangar') vs 'hangar AME'.

If you don't want to be self employed, then no hourly rate will be high enough. Hangar or not. Wait until you hear about hangar insurance and property taxes. Better pump up that hourly rate a bit more

[rookiepilot]

Travelling AME doesn't mean drive 2000 km to your next customer. I'd pay extra to have an AME come out to my airplane instead of having to fly to another airport and waste time with driving back and forth. Charge for travel, save on a hangar. That shouldn't have a negative affect on your personal life. Might be more uncomfortable to work in cold wind instead of a heated hangar, but that's a choice you can make an charge for accordingly.

I have done this type of work. It is a fucking miserable way to make money. Not saying your friend isnt happy, but for me laying on the cold ground/dirt in a T hanger because the owner doesn't want any inconvenience of having to make arrangements to bring the aircraft to me after awhile got very old. You say charge accordingly. Does 115$ an hour sound reasonable to drive, spend time setting up, perform the work, clean up and drive back home each day sound like a deal? Typical annual with a couple snags is a 3 day ordeal. Based on a 10hr day of which maybe 6-7 of it is on the aircraft and the rest driving. Not working a longer day, because we need to talk overtime premiums. This puts the annual at about 3500$ for labour alone. You would pay that rate willingly on your 172? ( just picking an aircraft, have no idea what you own).

Yes, I would. My time is worth a lot more than that, humbly spoken. And I'm not alone. Charge me 150 if thats the market for quality on site work. I don't care, but I won't tolerate problems, hassles, excuses, mistakes, headaches, and people who won't answer the phone. Goes for everything I buy.

One of my frustrations of this world is how self service, low service it's become, as the model has become to sell at rock bottom margins -- everything -- and cram as many seats in a commercial aircraft, or self service kiosks everywhere. It's ridiculous.

There's a big window between the self service, rock bottom model and chartering your own jet, so to speak, that isn't serviced well.

Money isn't the issue. I love to support other small businesses and I never quibble on the price. What is the issue is finding guys who will do quality work on anything and actually care, They are usually backed up due to their reputation and have a pretty good life.