Petition

[Lance rose]

Any updates on the ALPA petition?

[Straight2Secondary]

No update, ALPA is too busy watching the MEC getting recalled at WestJet and losing on every other front in Canada.

Time for the junior 1000 at AC to wake up. ALPA will not save you from the inept P4C.

[Dry Guy]

It’s on the agenda for the next MEC meeting (this week).

[negroni]

No update, ALPA is too busy watching the MEC getting recalled at WestJet and losing on every other front in Canada.

Time for the junior 1000 at AC to wake up. ALPA will not save you from the inept P4C.

Keep crying. We'll be alpa by summer.

[rudder]

No update, ALPA is too busy watching the MEC getting recalled at WestJet and losing on every other front in Canada.

Time for the junior 1000 at AC to wake up. ALPA will not save you from the inept P4C.

Keep crying. We'll be alpa by summer.

It is entirely possible that the next time that AC sits down with the pilots for Negots (2023) that there will be a new certified bargaining agent, a newly constituted MEC, and a new negotiations committee. If if nothing else changes, there will still be a new bargaining agenda.

[altiplano]

No update, ALPA is too busy watching the MEC getting recalled at WestJet and losing on every other front in Canada.

Time for the junior 1000 at AC to wake up. ALPA will not save you from the inept P4C.

Junior 1000?

I'd estimate that the bottom half of the list, ie.2100+ people, is better than 90% pro-ALPA.

I'd estimate of 2nd quartile is better than 2/3 pro-ALPA and the top quartile is maybe 60:40 one way or the other.

Average that out and you've got conservatively a 75% member yes vote for ALPA merger.

[Ratherbe]

Well that’s your opinion and opinions are like farts - you don’t have to share them. Please stick to facts.

Maybe our new P4C MEC can be open and transparent by releasing the last WAWCON results. We were told by the last MEC Chair that the pilot group wanted a new contract BEFORE a discussion about joining cALPA.

Just my observation, not an opinion, but the new P4C has so far done nothing. That’s hardly change is it?

[rudder]

Maybe our new P4C MEC can be open and transparent by releasing the last WAWCON results.

If you want the employer to have the results of the survey, why don’t you just let the employer conduct the survey?

If you have ever served in a representative position or on a bargaining committee, you would understand the logic behind preserving bargaining objectives survey data as privileged.

[Ratherbe]

Maybe our new P4C MEC can be open and transparent by releasing the last WAWCON results.

If you want the employer to have the results of the survey, why don’t you just let the employer conduct the survey?

If you have ever served in a representative position or on a bargaining committee, you would understand the logic behind preserving bargaining objectives survey data as privileged.

Sounds familiar. So much for change.

[negroni]

Well that’s your opinion and opinions are like farts - you don’t have to share them. Please stick to facts.

Maybe our new P4C MEC can be open and transparent by releasing the last WAWCON results. We were told by the last MEC Chair that the pilot group wanted a new contract BEFORE a discussion about joining cALPA.

Just my observation, not an opinion, but the new P4C has so far done nothing. That’s hardly change is it?

Here we go again.

Blake, Dan, Clark, Mike. Whoever you are, just go away already.

[Ratherbe]

Well that’s your opinion and opinions are like farts - you don’t have to share them. Please stick to facts.

Maybe our new P4C MEC can be open and transparent by releasing the last WAWCON results. We were told by the last MEC Chair that the pilot group wanted a new contract BEFORE a discussion about joining cALPA.

Just my observation, not an opinion, but the new P4C has so far done nothing. That’s hardly change is it?

Here we go again.

Blake, Dan, Clark, Mike. Whoever you are, just go away already.

So I guess you’re in the “don’t confuse me with the facts” camp? Why can’t the new MEC disclose what the pilots feel is more important- a new contract or a union drive?

[negroni]

Well if you actually talked to line pilots you'd realize that a lot, I'd say an overwhelming majority of those I work with want to see us go to ALPA before we spend another second sitting at the bargaining table with the company. And I fully agree.

You are a minority and you can't seem to accept it. Are you anti democracy? Seems like it.

[negroni]

Just my observation, not an opinion, but the new P4C has so far done nothing. That’s hardly change is it?

Done nothing? I guess pushing MM out along with YUL and YVR, and winning LEC and councillor votes across the country is "nothing". Have you had any interaction with the PBS Committee as of late and the new chair? It's shocking the difference compared to the last Chair. Same goes for Greivance and CMSC. The condescending emails and overall disdain for jr members is gone.

Shit doesn't change overnight, you have to get rid of the rot first which has taken some time. Thankfully the old guard is completely gone now. RG and LRD need to be next. Would love to see the YWG Chair resign too but he won't.

[Ratherbe]

No I haven’t had any interaction with the new PBS other than getting my December bid.

Sounds like the P4C are good at politics. Hopefully once they are rid of any dissenters they can produce results.

[negroni]

Whatever you say.

[BlueSkies12]

You’re wasting your breath Negroni, this is a bitter old man you’re dealing with.

[altiplano]

I clearly stated my post was my "estimate" - your posts are just all opinion, insult, and crap... musings of an out of touch company bitch.

Ratherbe in management... hurry, go, do us a favour.

[Straight2.Secondary]

P4C has done exactly what they said they would do

Enact change

New MEC, new membership energy & engagement

Let's keep rolling!!

Let's get the contract we all deserve

[Ratherbe]

Well if you actually talked to line pilots you'd realize that a lot, I'd say an overwhelming majority of those I work with want to see us go to ALPA before we spend another second sitting at the bargaining table with the company. And I fully agree.

You are a minority and you can't seem to accept it. Are you anti democracy? Seems like it.

Not at all! That’s why I would like to see the results of that survey question made public to us. It won’t affect negotiations just the timing of a union drive.

[Ratherbe]

No update, ALPA is too busy watching the MEC getting recalled at WestJet and losing on every other front in Canada.

Time for the junior 1000 at AC to wake up. ALPA will not save you from the inept P4C.

Junior 1000?

I'd estimate that the bottom half of the list, ie.2100+ people, is better than 90% pro-ALPA.

I'd estimate of 2nd quartile is better than 2/3 pro-ALPA and the top quartile is maybe 60:40 one way or the other.

Average that out and you've got conservatively a 75% member yes vote for ALPA merger.

Ok so if your opinion is so accurate why did only half the pilots in YVR support the P4C candidates?

[bcflyer]

No update, ALPA is too busy watching the MEC getting recalled at WestJet and losing on every other front in Canada.

Time for the junior 1000 at AC to wake up. ALPA will not save you from the inept P4C.

Junior 1000?

I'd estimate that the bottom half of the list, ie.2100+ people, is better than 90% pro-ALPA.

I'd estimate of 2nd quartile is better than 2/3 pro-ALPA and the top quartile is maybe 60:40 one way or the other.

Average that out and you've got conservatively a 75% member yes vote for ALPA merger.

Ok so if your opinion is so accurate why did only half the pilots in YVR support the P4C candidates?

P4C nothing to do with the pilot groups desire to look into ALPA and you know it. Of the 3 candidates for YVR chair, only one was affiliated with P4C however ALL 3 of the candidates were open to seeing what ALPA has to say. Far more than 50% of the YVR pilots want to look into ALPA. Stop throwing all this misinformation around. You lost. The old guard, of which you are undoubtedly one, has been soundly defeated. Deal with it.

[Rather be]

I just have a tough time with math and in particular, division

Like how to divide by 3...if there are 3 candidates and one gets 50% of all the votes, that is a pretty big margin of victory.

I'm just not sharpest knife in the drawer sometimes. Sorry about that

[Fanblade]

Well if you actually talked to line pilots you'd realize that a lot, I'd say an overwhelming majority of those I work with want to see us go to ALPA before we spend another second sitting at the bargaining table with the company. And I fully agree.

You are a minority and you can't seem to accept it. Are you anti democracy? Seems like it.

Not at all! That’s why I would like to see the results of that survey question made public to us. It won’t affect negotiations just the timing of a union drive.

Ratherbe,

Any survey data you might be referring to would predate the latest MOA. Clearly either the previous survey misrepresented what the pilots were thinking, it was interpreted wrong, or that thinking has changed.

When any doubt arises the correct thing to do is engage the membership. Figure out exactly what they want. An 80% rejection says what you thought you knew, is wrong. It means stop and set the park brake. Reassessment is required.

I am only one person but I can tell you my attitude has changed. Last spring I was kind of on the fence if I wanted ACPA to keep negotiating while we looked into ALPA. But after the MOA? My attitude is PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not re engage the company. If that MOA had been during regular negotiations, where arbitration was a possibility, we could have had another TA1 repeat.

We were warned in our governance review that if we don’t change we could very likely repeat that whole experience. We can’t afford another set back like that.

In my eyes the recently failed MOA was a warning shot. The Master Caution went off and a stack of ECAM procedures popped up. I’ve gone from yeah I think we can push on, to, I think we should declare a Pan, divert and get on the ground ASAP.

[RippleRock]

Guys like Ratherbe are reeking of sour grapes. How about getting back to work on the line without griping?

Cry us a river about having to leave the cottage shuttered. Full displacement wasn't going to last forever.

If the newly elected candidates do NOTHING it will be better than any "contribution" you guys ever thought you made. The days of taking a "horse" into a horse trade, and coming back with a "lame donkey" are over, one way or the other.

[FL030]

What's happening with this now?