QOL for commuters
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QOL for commuters
Whats the QOL like for AC pilots who commute? Any insight from anyone living in Calgary would be appreciated.
And what are the upgrade times like? How many hours do you need to upgrade?
And what are the upgrade times like? How many hours do you need to upgrade?
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Re: QOL for commuters
Rule of thumb, don't plan on commuting more than one province unless it's when you're hired and waiting a few months to get your preferred base. For example Calgary, Kelowna, Edmonton, Victoria too YVR base is livable. Same with any way between YYZ/YOW/YUL. Things get a bit harder if you're an East coast commuter or Winnipeg to YYZ. Don't even think about commuting long term between YVR and YYZ or YUL.
Hours are irrelevant. Everyone hired at AC has the minimums to upgrade. Upgrades are only based on seniority. Currently around 3.5-4 years and dropping.
Hours are irrelevant. Everyone hired at AC has the minimums to upgrade. Upgrades are only based on seniority. Currently around 3.5-4 years and dropping.
Re: QOL for commuters
Seniority.
You don’t have a choice when you get hired but every equipment bid there after you do.
Senior YYC - YVR Commuters are doing 14-15 days a month on the 320/737. Overnights in YYC. Late enough starts they can go day of. Early enough stops they get home day of pairing finish.
About 60% ish things get livable. Late starts. Early finishes. Only a few hotels required. Will get a few YYC overnights. 16 days.
Junior. 16 days. Very little YYC overnights. Often need to go the night before. Finish too late to get back day of pairing ending. Can easily turn into 20 days. If you have sim in the month 22.
Reserve. Expect to be working or sitting in YVR 20 days plus having to go the night before.
To answer your question about upgrading. Within a couple of years it will be attainable. However you will spend years on Reserve and junior. Great way to get divorced.
60% range as a narrow body Captain? I’d say 10 years.
Livable commuting means staying senior. It means delaying pay increases until senior.
You don’t have a choice when you get hired but every equipment bid there after you do.
Senior YYC - YVR Commuters are doing 14-15 days a month on the 320/737. Overnights in YYC. Late enough starts they can go day of. Early enough stops they get home day of pairing finish.
About 60% ish things get livable. Late starts. Early finishes. Only a few hotels required. Will get a few YYC overnights. 16 days.
Junior. 16 days. Very little YYC overnights. Often need to go the night before. Finish too late to get back day of pairing ending. Can easily turn into 20 days. If you have sim in the month 22.
Reserve. Expect to be working or sitting in YVR 20 days plus having to go the night before.
To answer your question about upgrading. Within a couple of years it will be attainable. However you will spend years on Reserve and junior. Great way to get divorced.
60% range as a narrow body Captain? I’d say 10 years.
Livable commuting means staying senior. It means delaying pay increases until senior.
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Re: QOL for commuters
Don't forget to Budget about $5000/yr in after tax dollars just to pay for the AIF's.
Re: QOL for commuters
Bit off topic but I commute Ywg-yyz working for jazz and rarely have a problem. If I have been bumped I’ve always made it on the next flight
Re: QOL for commuters
Good point I have heard of YEG-YYZ being a route that seems to work. Likely due to the low amount of commuters, and lately the capacity and size of aircraft increasing on that route.
Re: QOL for commuters
What about to get to the point where you could have an "acceptable" schedule on the WB side? Just curious. Is the junior schedule inherently more relaxed than the NB side?
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Re: QOL for commuters
I admit, I always assumed that AC had the best schedule in the business, more and more I realise your CBA is weak in some areas. Sim training comes out of your days off?Fanblade wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:40 am Seniority.
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Junior. 16 days. Very little YYC overnights. Often need to go the night before. Finish too late to get back day of pairing ending. Can easily turn into 20 days. If you have sim in the month 22.
Reserve. Expect to be working or sitting in YVR 20 days plus having to go the night before.
To answer your question about upgrading. Within a couple of years it will be attainable. However you will spend years on Reserve and junior. Great way to get divorced.
60% range as a narrow body Captain? I’d say 10 years.
Livable commuting means staying senior. It means delaying pay increases until senior.
Re: QOL for commuters
How's the Victoria to Vancouver commute these days? Do think it will be impacted by the Jazz staffing problems and the ferries being canceled a lot?
Re: QOL for commuters
Lol far from the best. Nearly everyone here works 16 days a month. It wasn't even that bad at the regionals. AC pairing construction is extremely unproductive. Almost deliberately so.co-joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:23 amI admit, I always assumed that AC had the best schedule in the business, more and more I realise your CBA is weak in some areas. Sim training comes out of your days off?Fanblade wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:40 am Seniority.
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Junior. 16 days. Very little YYC overnights. Often need to go the night before. Finish too late to get back day of pairing ending. Can easily turn into 20 days. If you have sim in the month 22.
Reserve. Expect to be working or sitting in YVR 20 days plus having to go the night before.
To answer your question about upgrading. Within a couple of years it will be attainable. However you will spend years on Reserve and junior. Great way to get divorced.
60% range as a narrow body Captain? I’d say 10 years.
Livable commuting means staying senior. It means delaying pay increases until senior.
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Re: QOL for commuters
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Last edited by co-joe on Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: QOL for commuters
Yikes, 16 a month?? That's very unfortunate..negroni wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:57 amLol far from the best. Nearly everyone here works 16 days a month. It wasn't even that bad at the regionals. AC pairing construction is extremely unproductive. Almost deliberately so.co-joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:23 amI admit, I always assumed that AC had the best schedule in the business, more and more I realise your CBA is weak in some areas. Sim training comes out of your days off?Fanblade wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:40 am Seniority.
...
Junior. 16 days. Very little YYC overnights. Often need to go the night before. Finish too late to get back day of pairing ending. Can easily turn into 20 days. If you have sim in the month 22.
Reserve. Expect to be working or sitting in YVR 20 days plus having to go the night before.
To answer your question about upgrading. Within a couple of years it will be attainable. However you will spend years on Reserve and junior. Great way to get divorced.
60% range as a narrow body Captain? I’d say 10 years.
Livable commuting means staying senior. It means delaying pay increases until senior.
Re: QOL for commuters
I haven't looked at it in depth, but every time I've discussed schedules with an AC pilot it seems that my schedule at WJ is better. If I bid for layovers/days off I work 14-15 days with weekends off and one layover/pairing in a good destination. (This month I work 15 days, no vacation, have a week off in the middle of the month, Christmas & Christmas eve off, and have 24-48 hrs in HUX, PVR & BGI). I used to do high credit flying and I'd be done in 10 days (but I'd be pretty tired the next day. Another bidding strategy I used to use was late check-ins/early check-outs for easy commuting. I'd work 15 days/mo, no hotel cost, and not fatiguing.
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Re: QOL for commuters
Bede wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:34 amI haven't looked at it in depth, but every time I've discussed schedules with an AC pilot it seems that my schedule at WJ is better. If I bid for layovers/days off I work 14-15 days with weekends off and one layover/pairing in a good destination. (This month I work 15 days, no vacation, have a week off in the middle of the month, Christmas & Christmas eve off, and have 24-48 hrs in HUX, PVR & BGI). I used to do high credit flying and I'd be done in 10 days (but I'd be pretty tired the next day. Another bidding strategy I used to use was late check-ins/early check-outs for easy commuting. I'd work 15 days/mo, no hotel cost, and not fatiguing.
Junior WB Air Canada rosters are the worst I’ve ever heard of. One fellow on my machine had TWENTY ONE days of work. On a WB. Besides the money and variety of work / potential for early upgrade, out working rules are the absolute shits.
Re: QOL for commuters
Well, AC drove down salaries for everyone else, and is now the lowest paying in the country on the junior side as others have started to come up. Why wouldn't they try to drive the schedules to the ground and make it the new norm too? We already have a growing annual deficit of pilots because of decreasing uptake to the career, for good reason. Guess they're expecting some magical solution to the incoming staffing issues instead of facing the impending reality?
Requisite Internet rant aside , are these schedules just a temporary result of short staffing and constant training or are they the actual intended block targets and will be perpetual?
Requisite Internet rant aside , are these schedules just a temporary result of short staffing and constant training or are they the actual intended block targets and will be perpetual?
Re: QOL for commuters
My current theory is at least the NB fleets could have much more productive pairings that would cost the company less and get by with fewer pilots working fewer days a month but they don’t want their pilots to get used to that life.
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Re: QOL for commuters
How is QOL for an RP holding a block? Would that be easier for a commuter?
Re: QOL for commuters
Perpetual.
And for an answer above. Sim and Annual recurrent training are in addition to your monthly flying.
There is no max 16 days on the Widebody. Junior on the WB can do 6 Europe out of Eastern Canada. That can easily turn into 18-20 days.
Junior RP is just as bad. If you get stuck with half pay DH's days can add up.
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Re: QOL for commuters
That 21 day block I mentioned earlier? Junior RP.superbilly24 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:11 am How is QOL for an RP holding a block? Would that be easier for a commuter?
This company will reap what it sows. The newer generation of pilots aren’t being hired at 22 and realize that this job doesn’t get you the summer home and fishing boat.