Does anyone know the requirements & procedures to apply for training as an Air Traffic Controller. I believe that there is an aptitude test prior to any training, but does anyone know how long the training is, what is required, where the training occurs and whether or not you are paid for the duration of the training.
Any help would be grateful.
atc
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Go to Navcanada.ca(.com?) and look it up.
but from what I remember,
2 months FSS in Cornwall 1.5K
4 months tower - Cornwall 2.5k
6 Months in a Major city with an ACC 4k
That's "basic" training and it costs you and you're paid nothing.
After that you go to somewhere else for on job training and are either not paid or are paid a minimal amount and again can still wash out.
Think the local posters say it takes about 2 years to get fully checked out on IFR...
Again, these are off the top of my head, best go to navcanada....
but from what I remember,
2 months FSS in Cornwall 1.5K
4 months tower - Cornwall 2.5k
6 Months in a Major city with an ACC 4k
That's "basic" training and it costs you and you're paid nothing.
After that you go to somewhere else for on job training and are either not paid or are paid a minimal amount and again can still wash out.
Think the local posters say it takes about 2 years to get fully checked out on IFR...
Again, these are off the top of my head, best go to navcanada....
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brokenwing
- Rank 4
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almost 60K while training on the job, and tops out at about 150k without overtime. (yyz ifr). pretty descent work schedual.
training is about 10 months without pay now. and all IFR training is done at the ACC your assigned to.
training is about 10 months without pay now. and all IFR training is done at the ACC your assigned to.
"I had a pilot's breakfast ... A coffee and a piss followed by a donut and a dump." -D. Elegant
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complexintentions
- Rank 10
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- Location: of my pants is unknown.
Correction.
It used to be approximately 50k/year while training on the floor. That pay is now closer to 30k/year, until you are licensed. The licensed controllers wages are still the same, but to make 150k you'd have to pull some fairly serious OT, or be very senior, even in YYZ.
To summarize (for IFR):
-$200 to write an aptitude test
-$3500 tuition
-nearly one year unpaid training (sim/classroom)
-30k/year while training on the floor (approximately one year, barring shortage of trainers/strike action/etc.)
So...if you can put all the whirly shapes in the right order on the aptitude tests, you can average 15k/year for two years, during which at any point up to and including the day you are licensed, you can be "cease trained". (CT'ed, ie washed out).
No reason given, no justification required. Two years of absolutely non-transferable skills. There is a reason why the quality of applicants is dropping through the basement - what adult over the age of 18, NOT living in their parents basement, could afford the above scenario, financially or risk-wise? It does not bode well for the future of ATS in Canada.
Heed those RA's!!
It used to be approximately 50k/year while training on the floor. That pay is now closer to 30k/year, until you are licensed. The licensed controllers wages are still the same, but to make 150k you'd have to pull some fairly serious OT, or be very senior, even in YYZ.
To summarize (for IFR):
-$200 to write an aptitude test
-$3500 tuition
-nearly one year unpaid training (sim/classroom)
-30k/year while training on the floor (approximately one year, barring shortage of trainers/strike action/etc.)
So...if you can put all the whirly shapes in the right order on the aptitude tests, you can average 15k/year for two years, during which at any point up to and including the day you are licensed, you can be "cease trained". (CT'ed, ie washed out).
No reason given, no justification required. Two years of absolutely non-transferable skills. There is a reason why the quality of applicants is dropping through the basement - what adult over the age of 18, NOT living in their parents basement, could afford the above scenario, financially or risk-wise? It does not bode well for the future of ATS in Canada.
Heed those RA's!!
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
60k while training on the job? Not sure where this figure comes from, but the current salary for on the job training is 30k for both IFR and VFR
For IFR:
Classroom/simulator training takes between 8 and 14 months depending on what center you're at, and what specialty inside the center you're assigned to. The entire 8 - 14 months is unpaid, with another 6-12 months of on the job training at 30k/year.
First year salary for a licensed IFR controller (so really your third year's salary) checking out in 2007 will be 90k-100k depending on which center you're at.
For IFR:
Classroom/simulator training takes between 8 and 14 months depending on what center you're at, and what specialty inside the center you're assigned to. The entire 8 - 14 months is unpaid, with another 6-12 months of on the job training at 30k/year.
First year salary for a licensed IFR controller (so really your third year's salary) checking out in 2007 will be 90k-100k depending on which center you're at.
Hey man, the downside isn't the cost - compare that to becoming a pilot or getting any kind of university degree and its downright cheap. Even if you make shit money while training, you're pulling close to 100k inside of 4 years. Most university graduates don't make that until several years after they graduate (if ever) and they take 4 years to finish the degree and often graduate with ~$100k in debts. Being ATC is a damn good deal from that perspective, the reason noone does it is because the skills and training are totally non-transferable and you're basically locked into that career for a long time. That sounds pretty scary to an 18 highschool graduate with a little money and brains, even if making $100k by the time you're 22 is a possibility.
Well said, I totally agree! Post Grad Degree here, and no 100K yet.Lommer wrote:Hey man, the downside isn't the cost - compare that to becoming a pilot or getting any kind of university degree and its downright cheap. Even if you make shit money while training, you're pulling close to 100k inside of 4 years. Most university graduates don't make that until several years after they graduate (if ever) and they take 4 years to finish the degree and often graduate with ~$100k in debts. Being ATC is a damn good deal from that perspective, the reason noone does it is because the skills and training are totally non-transferable and you're basically locked into that career for a long time. That sounds pretty scary to an 18 highschool graduate with a little money and brains, even if making $100k by the time you're 22 is a possibility.
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett
It doesn't really matter if it's 'a good deal' or not.
Navcanada historically has had a tough time recruiting people with the mental skill set to be good controllers. This is clearly evident by the high wash out (CT) rate.
If you reduce the applicant pool from where it was, to people who can afford to live in a major center for 12-18 months without pay, then statistically you would think the success rate would also have to suffer.
If you had a hard time finding good candidates when you offered them free room and board for 6 months, and then $45G+ for the next year, then how are you going to find them by offering them nothing for 12-18 months?
It doesn't really matter what you compare it to. It's apples and oranges. It's simple supply and demand. If you had a hard time buying good apples for $2 a pound, and you now offer the farmer $0.50 a pound, what kind of apples do you think you'll get??
Unfortunately for pilots, they are on the complete opposite side of the supply/demand curve. Too little demand, and too many farmers selling their apples for next to nothing.
Navcanada historically has had a tough time recruiting people with the mental skill set to be good controllers. This is clearly evident by the high wash out (CT) rate.
If you reduce the applicant pool from where it was, to people who can afford to live in a major center for 12-18 months without pay, then statistically you would think the success rate would also have to suffer.
If you had a hard time finding good candidates when you offered them free room and board for 6 months, and then $45G+ for the next year, then how are you going to find them by offering them nothing for 12-18 months?
It doesn't really matter what you compare it to. It's apples and oranges. It's simple supply and demand. If you had a hard time buying good apples for $2 a pound, and you now offer the farmer $0.50 a pound, what kind of apples do you think you'll get??
Unfortunately for pilots, they are on the complete opposite side of the supply/demand curve. Too little demand, and too many farmers selling their apples for next to nothing.
FSS is around 4 months in school and i hear 1K now. Then if you pass (the pass rate is about 60-70 percent in the school) you are placed at a station wherever and station training is anywhere from 3-6 months (station success rate is in the 90-95 % area) . No pay in school, ab initio in the station is around 25K a year (roughly about 700-800 clear every 2 weeks). When you check out the salary range for FSS is now 45-60K depending on your level and time in company.
FSS: puting the Service back in Flight Services....
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Tower Dudette
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linecrew
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AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS
Good piece of advice is to *insist* on the VFR training course. It's cheaper, shorter in duration and not as intense as the IFR course. There's also less likelihood of getting CT'd.
Once you get qualified in a tower and you have the union behind you, you can go for the transition to IFR and training won't cost you anything. Then if it doesn't workout, you will simply go back to a tower position
Once you get qualified in a tower and you have the union behind you, you can go for the transition to IFR and training won't cost you anything. Then if it doesn't workout, you will simply go back to a tower position
