New Flair Tentative Agreement

[indieadventurer]

Hearing rumours from folks both at Flair and elsewhere but nothing out in writing yet?

Should be some attention paid to this as it’s one of the first contracts being negotiated during our first real pilot crunch.

Will be telling to see where the bar is set and what the writing between the lines is for the longevity of Flair.

[pacman007]

Did you say Flair will set the bar?

[CanadianPilot321]

Captain starting pay $ - 147.06 (150,001.20$)
First Officer starting pay $ - 72.03 (73,468.46$)

Salaries based on MMG of 85credits.

[co-joe]

Did you say Flair will set the bar?

Certainly have set the bar for ULCCs in Canada. Even paying more than a couple similar sized airlines.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Did you say Flair will set the bar?

Certainly have set the bar for ULCCs in Canada. Even paying more than a couple similar sized airlines.

ALPA negotiating team didnt really give a $&&@ about FO’s. Just took all the money and increased the salaries for Captains. FO pay should be 89000 year 1

[Apestogetherstrong]

Most FO’s and a few Captains decided to vote down. Do not agree to the first TA. HOLD THE LINE

[Aspiredtofly]

Most FO’s and a few Captains decided to vote down. Do not agree to the first TA. HOLD THE LINE

So they're still negotiating on whether this payscale should be approved or not. Vote it down..

[co-joe]

Did you say Flair will set the bar?

Certainly have set the bar for ULCCs in Canada. Even paying more than a couple similar sized airlines.

ALPA negotiating team didnt really give a $&&@ about FO’s. Just took all the money and increased the salaries for Captains. FO pay should be 89000 year 1

Compared to who? Flair's FO salaries are above industry standard already, the new TBA addresses inflation to keep it that way.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Certainly have set the bar for ULCCs in Canada. Even paying more than a couple similar sized airlines.

ALPA negotiating team didnt really give a $&&@ about FO’s. Just took all the money and increased the salaries for Captains. FO pay should be 89000 year 1

Compared to who? Flair's FO salaries are above industry standard already, the new TBA addresses inflation to keep it that way.

When you compare the benefits its actually lower. Long term it gets worse. Besides you guys increased the MMG so in reality nothing improved. Stop defending it. FO’s will leave by the numbers if it stays like this. Also check out the “me too” clause in Delta’s contract. You guys should think about it because in a couple months when the shortage gets crazy, even $89K would be tough to defend. Sunwing already messed up because it wanted to recruit foreign pilots. I guess your South African venture would also rezult in not being able to recruit anyone. Tread carefully.
VOTE IT DOWN BOYZ AND GALZ!!!!

[safetyfirst123]

Compared to who? Flair's FO salaries are above industry standard already, the new TBA addresses inflation to keep it that way.

What!?!?!?!?

[thepoors]

Compared to who? Flair's FO salaries are above industry standard already, the new TBA addresses inflation to keep it that way.

What!?!?!?!?

It's amazing how fast and hard some people drink the company kool-aid. Those charts are a clear picture of the garbage Canadian companies are peddling and guys sit here and advocate for it. The CA pay scales in Canada are what most FO pay scales look like in the US...not even counting the signing bonuses.

[tryingtohide]

ALPA negotiating team didnt really give a $&&@ about FO’s. Just took all the money and increased the salaries for Captains. FO pay should be 89000 year 1

Compared to who? Flair's FO salaries are above industry standard already, the new TBA addresses inflation to keep it that way.

When you compare the benefits its actually lower. Long term it gets worse. Besides you guys increased the MMG so in reality nothing improved. Stop defending it. FO’s will leave by the numbers if it stays like this. Also check out the “me too” clause in Delta’s contract. You guys should think about it because in a couple months when the shortage gets crazy, even $89K would be tough to defend. Sunwing already messed up because it wanted to recruit foreign pilots. I guess your South African venture would also rezult in not being able to recruit anyone. Tread carefully.
VOTE IT DOWN BOYZ AND GALZ!!!!

That "me too" clause is amazing! I wonder what would happen if they all had the same clause

[pacman007]

Don’t forget that the posted WestJet ans Aircanada wages come with some additional and significant benefits! . WestJet get an additional 20% AC has pension. Both with YOS, better health benefits, flight benefits, bonuses and stability. To work for flair you need to be paid more than the majors just because of stability in my opinion.

Not to mention WestJet is in negotiations right now and could potentially get even more!

[fish4life]

Just talked to a WJ buddy of mine they also get some $7000 annual bonus or something in the spring every year. It had something to do with not having stock anymore.

[rudder]

Don’t forget that the posted WestJet ans Aircanada wages come with some additional and significant benefits! . WestJet get an additional 20% AC has pension. Both with YOS, better health benefits, flight benefits, bonuses and stability. To work for flair you need to be paid more than the majors just because of stability in my opinion.

Not to mention WestJet is in negotiations right now and could potentially get even more!

I have spreadsheets on both a currency adjusted and non-currency adjusted basis of CDN Pilot compensation (pension included) vs US Pilot compensation (pension included).

Calling CDN pilot compensation pathetic by comparison is being kind.

Don’t forget that all US Major carriers (both passenger and freight) receive employer supplemental retirement contributions of 16-18% of earned income (W2 slip) to their 401k plans.

CDN pilots are behind in ALL facets of Pilot compensation.

[Transition9er2]

Don’t forget that the posted WestJet ans Aircanada wages come with some additional and significant benefits! . WestJet get an additional 20% AC has pension. Both with YOS, better health benefits, flight benefits, bonuses and stability. To work for flair you need to be paid more than the majors just because of stability in my opinion.

Not to mention WestJet is in negotiations right now and could potentially get even more!

I have spreadsheets on both a currency adjusted and non-currency adjusted basis of CDN Pilot compensation (pension included) vs US Pilot compensation (pension included).

Calling CDN pilot compensation pathetic by comparison is being kind.

Don’t forget that all US Major carriers (both passenger and freight) receive employer supplemental retirement contributions of 16-18% of earned income (W2 slip) to their 401k plans.

CDN pilots are behind in ALL facets of Pilot compensation.

Now do a spreadsheet on management salaries and bonuses between Canadian and American airlines.

I am POSITIVE you’ll see the same gaps in pay! Right… right?!?! SMH

[co-joe]

Compared to who? Flair's FO salaries are above industry standard already, the new TBA addresses inflation to keep it that way.

What!?!?!?!?

Exactly, who are you looking at that pays so much more for FO's?

Sunwing $57 402
Air Canada $57 375
Westjet $60 375 (yes I know about the 20%, it's deferred to year 3 though so it's not really year 1 pay now is it?)
Air Transat $62 230
Porter $61 132
Candian North $58 060
Swoop $53 856

Those are hurting numbers.

And Flair $ 73 470

The highest paying first year FO narrow body salary in Canada. It's a 3 year TA of which one year is already behind us and will only be retroactive pay. In 2 years when the economy has tanked, WS and AC have renewed their CBA (or lets face it, WS will likely have to strike to get the backlog of grievances settled) it's up for renewal. It's only a 3 year TA, and it makes lots of key improvements on the old CBA. It's not perfect, but it's a good starting point.

For a bunch of people who haven't even seen the TA you sure are an opinionated bunch. I bet you opened your christmas presents the night before so you could go jump on your parent's bed and cry that you didn't get everything you asked for. We haven't even seen it yet.

[Cessna 180]

This TA is crap. I hope they all vote no.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Compared to who? Flair's FO salaries are above industry standard already, the new TBA addresses inflation to keep it that way.

What!?!?!?!?

Exactly, who are you looking at that pays so much more for FO's?

Sunwing $57 402
Air Canada $57 375
Westjet $60 375 (yes I know about the 20%, it's deferred to year 3 though so it's not really year 1 pay now is it?)
Air Transat $62 230
Porter $61 132
Candian North $58 060
Swoop $53 856

Those are hurting numbers.

And Flair $ 73 470

The highest paying first year FO narrow body salary in Canada. It's a 3 year TA of which one year is already behind us and will only be retroactive pay. In 2 years when the economy has tanked, WS and AC have renewed their CBA (or lets face it, WS will likely have to strike to get the backlog of grievances settled) it's up for renewal. It's only a 3 year TA, and it makes lots of key improvements on the old CBA. It's not perfect, but it's a good starting point.

For a bunch of people who haven't even seen the TA you sure are an opinionated bunch. I bet you opened your christmas presents the night before so you could go jump on your parent's bed and cry that you didn't get everything you asked for. We haven't even seen it yet.

67k to 73k for FO while $114k to $150k for CA. Why the FO salary didnt see an increase to $89k to be industry leading. All other companies will increase the salaries too. Are you going to add a “me too” clause? Also why did the MMG increase from 80 to 85. With the increase in mmg, the $6000 increase is a joke. Besides this doesnt factor in inflation. This wont stop us leaving to AC/Transat or even WJ once their new contract is up. The benefits other companies have like pension, 20% match is also a big thing. max 18 days worked???? Are we robots!??? Per diem rate sucks! Check Air Transat’s per diem rate. That is industry leading. Compare our salaries to US and its a shame. You guys are the reason for shortage and low interest in joining this field. Fix it now before it bites you in the $&@. Atleast factor in the inflation. This is getting voted down anyway.

[crashpadcommute]

With the increase of MMG to 85 hrs, how many positions are eliminated?

And how many captain spots are subsequently reduced?

What effect does that have on progression?

[Bacunayagua]

This guy co-joe is really taking "highest paid FO" to the bank. Did you bother to take a look at any other company's pay for more than the first year? Congratulations, you're marginally better than the passenger airlines (because you're still behind the cargo guys) for the first 12 months. You then fall right out of that "Highest paid FO" podium very quickly. Transat for example, pulls slightly ahead on year 2 and leaves you in the dust year 3. Thats not to speak of all the other benefits like pension where the pilot can pay up to 5% of their salary and the company will add another 8% to it for a total of 13%. Not even the best in the industry as WJ and AC have better plans, but this guy is bragging about 3% matching lol.

But what am I saying. None of that matters since you're upgrading to Cpt in no time.

[Apestogetherstrong]

For comparison to US ULCC. Not even converting US dollar to CDN. CHECK OUT THE JUMP TO YEAR 2. CO-JOE stop defending this pathetic TA and wake up.

[GRK2]

Jeezuz you guys are exhausting. Have any of you actually seen the TA you so disparage so much? I don't think you have. In fact I KNOW you haven't. If you do indeed work for Flair why are you still there if it's so shitty? Settle down and wait for the details or you'll risk looking even more divisive than you are already. Forming an opinion without all the facts is simply idiotic.

[Bacunayagua]

Jeezuz you guys are exhausting. Have any of you actually seen the TA you so disparage so much? I don't think you have. In fact I KNOW you haven't. If you do indeed work for Flair why are you still there if it's so shitty? Settle down and wait for the details or you'll risk looking even more divisive than you are already. Forming an opinion without all the facts is simply idiotic.

I personally have seen it, and it sucks ass. But I do not work for Flair.

[GRK2]

Jeezuz you guys are exhausting. Have any of you actually seen the TA you so disparage so much? I don't think you have. In fact I KNOW you haven't. If you do indeed work for Flair why are you still there if it's so shitty? Settle down and wait for the details or you'll risk looking even more divisive than you are already. Forming an opinion without all the facts is simply idiotic.

I personally have seen it, and it sucks ass. But I do not work for Flair.

Hahahahaha...no you haven't! Especially if, as you claim, you don't work for Flair!