Overtime

[Northof60th]

Just wondering what the overtime availability is like right now at AC and what it's forecasted to be like in the future. I'm hoping to get on in the near future but might need a little overtime to make ends meet. What fleets offer the most overtime? Perdiums? Cheers

[schnitzel2k3]

*Facepalm*

Between taking out HELOC's to pay mortgage (another thread) until one hits formula or gunning for overtime out of the gate to make ends meet, it still makes me shake my head why people are clamoring over each other for the opportunity to take a number, and get in line behind 4500 other pilots (or whatever that number is now). Management is just loving the motivation to work for peanuts.

Rouge used to be the go to avenue to circumvent mainline's archaic reserve rules and get into a liveable wage category - at least that's what everybody was pitching back in the day. I think management closed that loophole after Transat fell through and they brought back Rouge, so that everyone could truly enjoy their first 4 years in similar miserable financial situations.

If you've got jet time going in, bid WB to maximize your monthly credits and if you've got something to prove, grab the first upgrade on anything that comes up.

Good luck.

[Rooster69]

Lately, the top ranks of Reserve are being populated by more senior pilots. With the implementation of ‘best fit’ and the subsequent transformation of the days off in to ‘G’ days off (Guaranteed days off), there is an easier way of attracting a 100% premium to one’s block WITHOUT doing overtime. All flying in or on a G day attracts the premium. No more VO and working extra hours, just pushing days off will garner a premium.

[Fanblade]

I wouldn’t count on overtime. Yes it is often available but I have experienced multiple times now when blocks went into the 60-65 hour range and overtime couldn’t be begged, borrowed, or stolen. In all cases it was unexpected and the slump went on for a long time. I’m not talking just no overtime. I’m talking blocks dropping 20%

2001 911
2002 SARS
2003 CCAA
2008 Great Recession
2012 The start of Rouge. Mainline blocks dropped as fly was transferred
2019 Covid.

[fixnfly]

On the other side of the spectrum, are there reduced time blocks available? And is there an option to drop pairings from your schedule for others to pick them up for overtime? I have a side business and would rather be spending time on that and flying with a reduced block if that's an option at AC

[Freshredmeat]

As a noob myself, you really need to understand what you're getting yourself into when you come here

Reserve is an industry worst. Best Fit is a giant dumpster fire that is just face palm for so many levels.

Best is you don't even get DBM -2 like the formula pay pilots. Just because this place likes to just crap all over new hires

If you do elect to fly on a G day, you get a premium for that day. Just that day. So if you're on a layover that day, you get zero. Not even a sticker next to your name on the "Who's a good AC pilot" board up in flight ops

If you get a block the next month, then that moveable Guaranteed day off also vanishes. Just an all around awesome contract.

I see Encore & Sunwing getting raises for no concessions

Here we almost gave away permanent concessions for still inferior pay increases.

So yeah, enjoy flying for a Global Airline that treats its pilots like we are working for Putin

[Vanguard]

*Facepalm*

Between taking out HELOC's to pay mortgage (another thread) until one hits formula or gunning for overtime out of the gate to make ends meet, it still makes me shake my head why people are clamoring over each other for the opportunity to take a number, and get in line behind 4500 other pilots (or whatever that number is now). Management is just loving the motivation to work for peanuts.

Rouge used to be the go to avenue to circumvent mainline's archaic reserve rules and get into a liveable wage category - at least that's what everybody was pitching back in the day. I think management closed that loophole after Transat fell through and they brought back Rouge, so that everyone could truly enjoy their first 4 years in similar miserable financial situations.

If you've got jet time going in, bid WB to maximize your monthly credits and if you've got something to prove, grab the first upgrade on anything that comes up.

Good luck.

You’re such a wiener. You joined and went through it too didn’t you? — were things any better? Didn’t you line up like a cow to get slaughtered too? Let people make their decision and thank your captains for selling out the industry. AC has been the major reason why Canadian aviation sucks so much but for many it’s always going to be a goal to fly for the national carrier. In case you haven’t noticed we don’t have much options here.

[alkaseltzer]

As a noob myself, you really need to understand what you're getting yourself into when you come here

Reserve is an industry worst. Best Fit is a giant dumpster fire that is just face palm for so many levels.

Best is you don't even get DBM -2 like the formula pay pilots. Just because this place likes to just crap all over new hires

If you do elect to fly on a G day, you get a premium for that day. Just that day. So if you're on a layover that day, you get zero. Not even a sticker next to your name on the "Who's a good AC pilot" board up in flight ops

If you get a block the next month, then that moveable Guaranteed day off also vanishes. Just an all around awesome contract.

I see Encore & Sunwing getting raises for no concessions

Here we almost gave away permanent concessions for still inferior pay increases.

So yeah, enjoy flying for a Global Airline that treats its pilots like we are working for Putin

So go join sunwing.

No Forced conscription here. No Putin here. Plenty of Eastern Bloc mental conditioning going on at Westjet.

If you don’t like it, leave. Don’t be a lil bitch.

You joined 5 months ago. Get a grip.

Overtime is available and should not be shamed as if one were contemplating an abortion. Their choice. Not yours.

Their choice. Not yours.

Want to stay? Your choice. Not mine.

[sstaurus]

*Facepalm*

Between taking out HELOC's to pay mortgage (another thread) until one hits formula or gunning for overtime out of the gate to make ends meet, it still makes me shake my head why people are clamoring over each other for the opportunity to take a number, and get in line behind 4500 other pilots (or whatever that number is now). Management is just loving the motivation to work for peanuts.

Rouge used to be the go to avenue to circumvent mainline's archaic reserve rules and get into a liveable wage category - at least that's what everybody was pitching back in the day. I think management closed that loophole after Transat fell through and they brought back Rouge, so that everyone could truly enjoy their first 4 years in similar miserable financial situations.

If you've got jet time going in, bid WB to maximize your monthly credits and if you've got something to prove, grab the first upgrade on anything that comes up.

Good luck.

You’re such a wiener. You joined and went through it too didn’t you? — were things any better? Didn’t you line up like a cow to get slaughtered too? Let people make their decision and thank your captains for selling out the industry. AC has been the major reason why Canadian aviation sucks so much but for many it’s always going to be a goal to fly for the national carrier. In case you haven’t noticed we don’t have much options here.

X2. Like it’s just too difficult to see why someone would still come to AC anyway

[schnitzel2k3]

*Facepalm*

Between taking out HELOC's to pay mortgage (another thread) until one hits formula or gunning for overtime out of the gate to make ends meet, it still makes me shake my head why people are clamoring over each other for the opportunity to take a number, and get in line behind 4500 other pilots (or whatever that number is now). Management is just loving the motivation to work for peanuts.

Rouge used to be the go to avenue to circumvent mainline's archaic reserve rules and get into a liveable wage category - at least that's what everybody was pitching back in the day. I think management closed that loophole after Transat fell through and they brought back Rouge, so that everyone could truly enjoy their first 4 years in similar miserable financial situations.

If you've got jet time going in, bid WB to maximize your monthly credits and if you've got something to prove, grab the first upgrade on anything that comes up.

Good luck.

You’re such a wiener. You joined and went through it too didn’t you? — were things any better? Didn’t you line up like a cow to get slaughtered too? Let people make their decision and thank your captains for selling out the industry. AC has been the major reason why Canadian aviation sucks so much but for many it’s always going to be a goal to fly for the national carrier. In case you haven’t noticed we don’t have much options here.

You mispelled winner.

I said no years back, one of the very few industry 'martyrs' on this site, but I watched many a colleague make the same choice, that was yes to AC, and them complain endlessly over beers about their decision.

I listened to the internal routing, as there were always loopholes, to help them navigate the trials and tribulations of AC as a new hire...

And yeah for someone not blinded by 'flying the flag', I'm still scratching my head as to why someone would agree to support AC at their current hiring package. That may change, but right now, I'm embarrassed for everyone who says yes.

[Ash Ketchum]

With all the negative comments about AC I still don't see many leaving for other operators once they join. It's still the best long term airline pilot job in Canada.

[schnitzel2k3]

Simply because seniority rules at AC Ash, its the FOMO. 'If I don't do it now, and piss on the industry, I'll miss 1000 spots, and be on reserve until I'm 64'.

[FelixGustof]

As a noob myself, you really need to understand what you're getting yourself into when you come here

Reserve is an industry worst. Best Fit is a giant dumpster fire that is just face palm for so many levels.

Best is you don't even get DBM -2 like the formula pay pilots. Just because this place likes to just crap all over new hires

If you do elect to fly on a G day, you get a premium for that day. Just that day. So if you're on a layover that day, you get zero. Not even a sticker next to your name on the "Who's a good AC pilot" board up in flight ops

If you get a block the next month, then that moveable Guaranteed day off also vanishes. Just an all around awesome contract.

I see Encore & Sunwing getting raises for no concessions

Here we almost gave away permanent concessions for still inferior pay increases.

So yeah, enjoy flying for a Global Airline that treats its pilots like we are working for Putin

So go join sunwing.

No Forced conscription here. No Putin here. Plenty of Eastern Bloc mental conditioning going on at Westjet.

If you don’t like it, leave. Don’t be a lil bitch.

You joined 5 months ago. Get a grip.

Overtime is available and should not be shamed as if one were contemplating an abortion. Their choice. Not yours.

Their choice. Not yours.

Want to stay? Your choice. Not mine.

When I read above it clarifies why I won't be entering aviation.

The "just be happy you're not living in Somalia" ethos that really advances a career

Wow, some real dummies in this profession. Yikes

[JHR]

More of a Canadian attitude than an aviation attitude

[schnitzel2k3]

More of a Canadian attitude than an aviation attitude

It was about as toxic and gross in the U.S about 7-10 years ago as it is here today. It just corrected itself overtime thanks to the 1500 hour rule, mostly.

[Alkasultzer]

I vote 'Yes' to everything

Those idiots at Sunwing & Encore getting pay raises for zero concessions while I was happy to vote Yes to permanent concessions

#winning

[Curiousflyer]

Widebody generally has the highest paying per diems, it also seems like it’s best option for VO. As the overseas rest rules are more complicated it’s become more difficult to fill in the gaps with “legal” pilots. So the VO goes down the seniority list a little more.

I wouldn’t plan on flat pay going away anytime soon and I also wouldn’t plan on being able to do VO to make ends meet over the next 4 years.

Pilots constantly listing for VO do tend to get a bit of a negative reputation, as you can tell from some of the responses.

There are currently dozens and dozens of loopholes that AC extracts throughout the collective agreement to not pay the premium on VO. Most of these are well established and there isn’t much the union can do about it. Who it really hurts is the new hires that come in with one expectation of pay and end up with another, such as working for free.

[Vanguard]

*Facepalm*

Between taking out HELOC's to pay mortgage (another thread) until one hits formula or gunning for overtime out of the gate to make ends meet, it still makes me shake my head why people are clamoring over each other for the opportunity to take a number, and get in line behind 4500 other pilots (or whatever that number is now). Management is just loving the motivation to work for peanuts.

Rouge used to be the go to avenue to circumvent mainline's archaic reserve rules and get into a liveable wage category - at least that's what everybody was pitching back in the day. I think management closed that loophole after Transat fell through and they brought back Rouge, so that everyone could truly enjoy their first 4 years in similar miserable financial situations.

If you've got jet time going in, bid WB to maximize your monthly credits and if you've got something to prove, grab the first upgrade on anything that comes up.

Good luck.

You’re such a wiener. You joined and went through it too didn’t you? — were things any better? Didn’t you line up like a cow to get slaughtered too? Let people make their decision and thank your captains for selling out the industry. AC has been the major reason why Canadian aviation sucks so much but for many it’s always going to be a goal to fly for the national carrier. In case you haven’t noticed we don’t have much options here.

You mispelled winner.

I said no years back, one of the very few industry 'martyrs' on this site, but I watched many a colleague make the same choice, that was yes to AC, and them complain endlessly over beers about their decision.

I listened to the internal routing, as there were always loopholes, to help them navigate the trials and tribulations of AC as a new hire...

And yeah for someone not blinded by 'flying the flag', I'm still scratching my head as to why someone would agree to support AC at their current hiring package. That may change, but right now, I'm embarrassed for everyone who says yes.

You're definitely an idiot and typical troll hypocrite. I did it but if anyone else does it - its embarrassing. Go get a life outside work you wiener. If it was okay for you to accept the shit package - you made your decision. Who are you to go shit on other peoples decisions? Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON. If anything WestJet pilots will actually steer this industry out of this with their negotiations.

If people want to line up at AC nothing you say is going to change it.

[daedalusx]

More of a Canadian attitude than an aviation attitude

It was about as toxic and gross in the U.S about 7-10 years ago as it is here today. It just corrected itself overtime thanks to the 1500 hour rule, mostly.

Yup. People forget than in the late 2000s in the USA, you had Embraer FOs getting paid 17K-22K a year and capt getting paid 40K in the hope to get a flow through a major to secure a seniority number ASAP. Sounds familiar ? Shit there was even semi-mainstream news talking about the crash pad lifestyle and the cost of flying cheap.
Then Colgan buffalo happened, then the 1500 ATPL rule and then somehow, for no reasons at all, salaries and conditions started to drastically increase.
Here we have cadets “flying” 737-800s at 250 hrs and we’re recruiting South African Capts with fast track immigration programs and we wonder why we still have terrible wages across all airlines, as if employment wasn’t the most basic offer/demand curve.

[Fanblade]

As a noob myself, you really need to understand what you're getting yourself into when you come here

Reserve is an industry worst. Best Fit is a giant dumpster fire that is just face palm for so many levels.

Best is you don't even get DBM -2 like the formula pay pilots. Just because this place likes to just crap all over new hires

If you do elect to fly on a G day, you get a premium for that day. Just that day. So if you're on a layover that day, you get zero. Not even a sticker next to your name on the "Who's a good AC pilot" board up in flight ops

If you get a block the next month, then that moveable Guaranteed day off also vanishes. Just an all around awesome contract.

I see Encore & Sunwing getting raises for no concessions

Here we almost gave away permanent concessions for still inferior pay increases.

So yeah, enjoy flying for a Global Airline that treats its pilots like we are working for Putin

So go join sunwing.

No Forced conscription here. No Putin here. Plenty of Eastern Bloc mental conditioning going on at Westjet.

If you don’t like it, leave. Don’t be a lil bitch.

You joined 5 months ago. Get a grip.

Overtime is available and should not be shamed as if one were contemplating an abortion. Their choice. Not yours.

Their choice. Not yours.

Want to stay? Your choice. Not mine.

Cringe worthy.

You and I (our generation) are responsible for the sorry state of our contract. And you think you have the moral high ground to tell someone junior that if they don’t like it, there’s the door?

All you are really doing is flipping the bird at the junior demographic and absolving yourself of any responsibility for the sorry state new hires now have to live through. It is much worse now than when we were hired.

You just made yourself the poster child of everything the bottom half of the list loathes.

Good work.

[Fanblade]

Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON.

Alkaseltzer,

That was directed at you and I. And he is right.

Change is coming in 2023. It will take time but your junior peers will fix the mess we have left behind

[schnitzel2k3]

You’re such a wiener. You joined and went through it too didn’t you? — were things any better? Didn’t you line up like a cow to get slaughtered too? Let people make their decision and thank your captains for selling out the industry. AC has been the major reason why Canadian aviation sucks so much but for many it’s always going to be a goal to fly for the national carrier. In case you haven’t noticed we don’t have much options here.

You mispelled winner.

I said no years back, one of the very few industry 'martyrs' on this site, but I watched many a colleague make the same choice, that was yes to AC, and them complain endlessly over beers about their decision.

I listened to the internal routing, as there were always loopholes, to help them navigate the trials and tribulations of AC as a new hire...

And yeah for someone not blinded by 'flying the flag', I'm still scratching my head as to why someone would agree to support AC at their current hiring package. That may change, but right now, I'm embarrassed for everyone who says yes.

You're definitely an idiot and typical troll hypocrite. I did it but if anyone else does it - its embarrassing. Go get a life outside work you wiener. If it was okay for you to accept the shit package - you made your decision. Who are you to go shit on other peoples decisions? Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON. If anything WestJet pilots will actually steer this industry out of this with their negotiations.

If people want to line up at AC nothing you say is going to change it.

Are you high?

I did NOT take a job at AC. I continue to find my path outside of Big Red, and while my pathway is less certain than the rubber stamp career of an AC pilot, I have found enjoyment in not knowing which unique opportunity I'll be apart of in 5, 10 or 25 years.

[Vanguard]

You mispelled winner.

I said no years back, one of the very few industry 'martyrs' on this site, but I watched many a colleague make the same choice, that was yes to AC, and them complain endlessly over beers about their decision.

I listened to the internal routing, as there were always loopholes, to help them navigate the trials and tribulations of AC as a new hire...

And yeah for someone not blinded by 'flying the flag', I'm still scratching my head as to why someone would agree to support AC at their current hiring package. That may change, but right now, I'm embarrassed for everyone who says yes.

You're definitely an idiot and typical troll hypocrite. I did it but if anyone else does it - its embarrassing. Go get a life outside work you wiener. If it was okay for you to accept the shit package - you made your decision. Who are you to go shit on other peoples decisions? Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON. If anything WestJet pilots will actually steer this industry out of this with their negotiations.

If people want to line up at AC nothing you say is going to change it.

Are you high?

I did NOT take a job at AC. I continue to find my path outside of Big Red, and while my pathway is less certain than the rubber stamp career of an AC pilot, I have found enjoyment in not knowing which unique opportunity I'll be apart of in 5, 10 or 25 years.

My point exactly. How can you sit on the outside and comment on something you can't comprehend? The first 4 years at AC suck. The senior pilots acknowledge it, the junior pilots are fighting to change it. Things may possibly get better but you're looking at 4 yrs and saying Air Canada is shit but missing out on everything else that scopes a full career. Progression, opportunity, experience and diversity of flying.

I also don't work for AC however I am not going here on their forum shitting on pilots wanting to have a career here. You can go troll somewhere else - clearly you are so happy with your choice of career.

[schnitzel2k3]

You're definitely an idiot and typical troll hypocrite. I did it but if anyone else does it - its embarrassing. Go get a life outside work you wiener. If it was okay for you to accept the shit package - you made your decision. Who are you to go shit on other peoples decisions? Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON. If anything WestJet pilots will actually steer this industry out of this with their negotiations.

If people want to line up at AC nothing you say is going to change it.

Are you high?

I did NOT take a job at AC. I continue to find my path outside of Big Red, and while my pathway is less certain than the rubber stamp career of an AC pilot, I have found enjoyment in not knowing which unique opportunity I'll be apart of in 5, 10 or 25 years.

My point exactly. How can you sit on the outside and comment on something you can't comprehend? The first 4 years at AC suck. The senior pilots acknowledge it, the junior pilots are fighting to change it. Things may possibly get better but you're looking at 4 yrs and saying Air Canada is shit but missing out on everything else that scopes a full career. Progression, opportunity, experience and diversity of flying.

I also don't work for AC however I am not going here on their forum shitting on pilots wanting to have a career here. You can go troll somewhere else - clearly you are so happy with your choice of career.

I'll be honest, you made zero sense earlier; just a bunch of name calling, then referring to me as a hypocrite, which would insinuate that I was an AC pilot who went through flat pay, shitting on new hires...

I can absolutely comment on the decisions of people who post publicly about struggling with making ends meet, when they accepted an opportunity that quite literally is throttling salary and conditions in the rest of our industry. AC blames everyone else, when the problem is everyone else had to compete UNDER AC's 10 year guaranteed cost structure.

Thank god they (the pilot group) said no a few months ago. That would've been another sucker hole of brutal hidden concessions down the line affecting negots in 2024.

Vanny, it's not trolling when it's the truth brother.

[JoeyBarton]

Simply because seniority rules at AC Ash, its the FOMO. 'If I don't do it now, and piss on the industry, I'll miss 1000 spots, and be on reserve until I'm 64'.

You will always find guys too that will honestly tell you that, had they said yes in 2012, would be #2200 out of 4500 working 12 days a month for 250k while spending 30% of their air time napping, laughing their ass off as a WB FO.
Heck just ask jazz q4 skippers out of yyc who proudly said no in 2015 to the pml how they feel now about their flying getting slashed with no control over it 8 years later.
In all honesty, is it perfect? No. But yes it is the best gig in the country. The nature of the game hasn't changed in decades, it is a race to get in. Simple as that.
Still some Qatar captains or 20 year Cathay's showing up #4500...But anybody in his right mind by looking at fleet outlooks in 2018-2019 MD&A's knows the company will need to aim at 5500-6000 pilots in the next 3-5 years timeline. Junior captain spots usually sit at 75% of the list...You do the math.
Again, is the salary at where it should be? No
But has it been the best gig for the last 20 years? Probably has..It's like investing in ETFs tracking the S&P or the TSX over 30 years. Does it look like a home run right off the bat? Probably not. Will you be looking at your portfolio down the road in 30 years asking yourself if it was the right move? Absolutely will.

In real estate, in your marriage, in your career choice with regards to AC you need to take a long term outlook. Those who do, live happily, simply, and will retire (sooner) as such. Modern life isn't always about immediate happiness.