Pilot in waiting jobs situation

[IJNShiroyuki]

Is there anyone who is workin, or recently has worksed, in pilot in waiting position with northern carriers like Buffalo, wasaya, north star air etc.
How is the wait time? and how is your pay and working conditions?

[rwy31]

Currently PIW at one of the carriers mentionned , I was told minimum 12 months , could be before(depending on operation needs) , the trend for those before me , they’ve gotten a seat anywhere between 6-8 months.The pay for my department is decent , I have to budget of course but Im not eating ramen for dinner everynight.Working conditions is okay , not perfect but just okay, some days are long. I still apply to every job posting I see fit in the mean time and still nothing.Hope this helps a bit.

[twa22]

Pilot in waiting shouldn't even exist in today's hiring environment where everyone is short pilots... If the flow to the 705 is in theory continuous, I don't understand why 702/703 operators still have pilot in waiting

[Turboprops]

Pilot in waiting shouldn't even exist in today's hiring environment where everyone is short pilots... If the flow to the 705 is in theory continuous, I don't understand why 702/703 operators still have pilot in waiting

Because there’s no shortage of 250hr fresh CPL pilots that want to get hours.

[lownslow]

I don't understand why 702/703 operators still have pilot in waiting

Because you can find a good candidate who wants to work for you but you don’t have a seat for them today. You will in a couple months or maybe even a couple days but right this instant you don’t. But you do need rampies and flight followers, both of which train up easily enough if you start with a CPL holder. A job like that forms a good base of company operational knowledge that can be built on when they transition to flying.

Obviously if you’re applying for this sort of thing you need to apply the right frame of mind and know exactly what you’re getting into.

[twa22]

I hope you both understand my question was geared more in a rhetorical sense... I know why ramp positions still exist, it's along the same type of reasons why some starting 705 FO salaries are less then a McDonalds manager

[dALre]

Is there anyone who is workin, or recently has worksed, in pilot in waiting position with northern carriers like Buffalo, wasaya, north star air etc.
How is the wait time? and how is your pay and working conditions?

Don't know the Buffalo but for Wasaya and North Star, they are full of PIW on ground.
In fact, was told from my captain who knows a guy in the company about a couple months ago that surplus amount of FOs flowed from ground position but still the flow is very stagnant and this became a real issue for those people still remaining on the ground for over an year or, perhaps, more.

The story is maybe 3 months old by now so take it with a grain of salt.

[lownslow]

The story is maybe 3 months old by now so take it with a grain of salt.

So those FOs have already interviewed with a Q400 operator and will be leaving soon, then?

Honestly with the 703 pilots ‘in your way’ flying 1000-ish hours a year from hire until they get picked up by a 705 at 750TT or so, do the math to figure out when a good PIW candidate can get flying.

[IJNShiroyuki]

Pilot in waiting shouldn't even exist in today's hiring environment where everyone is short pilots... If the flow to the 705 is in theory continuous, I don't understand why 702/703 operators still have pilot in waiting

Even in today's market there's no shortage of 250-1000 hour low time pilot. Everyone is short of captain.
And with how so much pilot are stucked at pre-1000 hour stage, no wonder they are short of captain. If new pilot can't progress, where would experienced pilot come from>

[IJNShiroyuki]

Is there anyone who is workin, or recently has worksed, in pilot in waiting position with northern carriers like Buffalo, wasaya, north star air etc.
How is the wait time? and how is your pay and working conditions?

Don't know the Buffalo but for Wasaya and North Star, they are full of PIW on ground.
In fact, was told from my captain who knows a guy in the company about a couple months ago that surplus amount of FOs flowed from ground position but still the flow is very stagnant and this became a real issue for those people still remaining on the ground for over an year or, perhaps, more.

The story is maybe 3 months old by now so take it with a grain of salt.

That sounds pretty bad... Can't they upgrade those FO into captain as soon as they got the hours?

[IJNShiroyuki]

Currently PIW at one of the carriers mentionned , I was told minimum 12 months , could be before(depending on operation needs) , the trend for those before me , they’ve gotten a seat anywhere between 6-8 months.The pay for my department is decent , I have to budget of course but Im not eating ramen for dinner everynight.Working conditions is okay , not perfect but just okay, some days are long. I still apply to every job posting I see fit in the mean time and still nothing.Hope this helps a bit.

How long have you been working so far?

[rwy31]

Currently PIW at one of the carriers mentionned , I was told minimum 12 months , could be before(depending on operation needs) , the trend for those before me , they’ve gotten a seat anywhere between 6-8 months.The pay for my department is decent , I have to budget of course but Im not eating ramen for dinner everynight.Working conditions is okay , not perfect but just okay, some days are long. I still apply to every job posting I see fit in the mean time and still nothing.Hope this helps a bit.

How long have you been working so far?

4 months

[Maynard]

This thread is comical.

[ellinas]

So really there is no pilot shortage, just a captain with 2000 hours shortage .

[lownslow]

How come the major airlines aren’t doing PIW programs?

[imapo16]

I am also currently in a PIW position on of the biggest northern carrier in Quebec and the waiting time here is around between 12-24 months minimum. I feel like it's a very long time to wait even after the end of the pandemic, but I do not have a choice at the moment. Still applying to entry level pilot job posting when they're available but the competition is fierce..

[IJNShiroyuki]

I am also currently in a PIW position on of the biggest northern carrier in Quebec and the waiting time here is around between 12-24 months minimum. I feel like it's a very long time to wait even after the end of the pandemic, but I do not have a choice at the moment. Still applying to entry level pilot job posting when they're available but the competition is fierce..

one to two years is making northern ontario look good!

[IJNShiroyuki]

How come the major airlines aren’t doing PIW programs?

Because they can offer new hire less than 50k a year and still got plenty of applicant willing to fly for them?

[MrAviator19]

Pilot in waiting shouldn't even exist in today's hiring environment where everyone is short pilots... If the flow to the 705 is in theory continuous, I don't understand why 702/703 operators still have pilot in waiting

There's no shortage of fresh off the flight school 250-hour pilots, never was. The shortage has always been that of experienced guys that are upgradable. Maybe the 250-hour pilots would be in greater demand a year or two from now seeing as how the number of CPLs being issued in Canada decreased dramatically over the last year. But for now, PIW is unfortunately the name of the game at Northern operators. That being said, it's always possible to get your break even as a low time pilot. The timing and internal references just have to be right.

MrA

[spruceair]

So really there is no pilot shortage, just a captain with 2000 hours shortage .

Bingo. FOs at 703/4s get their 1000hrs TT and the vast majority leave when Encore or Jazz call. There is a small minority who do stick around to get some MPIC and take advantage of the growing medevac salaries ($100-180k) that are out there.