Is Flow to AC over?

[Nick678]

The terms of the flow agreement have been violated. They are not meeting the numbers required and don't care. Jazz is not supposed to advertise flow anymore. It's dead. Don't come here if you think you will go to AC.

[QKZXKV]

The terms of the flow agreement have been violated. They are not meeting the numbers required and don't care. Jazz is not supposed to advertise flow anymore. It's dead. Don't come here if you think you will go to AC.

False...

[truedude]

The terms of the flow agreement have been violated. They are not meeting the numbers required and don't care. Jazz is not supposed to advertise flow anymore. It's dead. Don't come here if you think you will go to AC.

False...

What's false? The terms of the agreement were violated in 2022. Jazz accounted for about 30% instead of the required 60. They aren't making this up so far this year, and continue to be short. The union has told them to scrub the 60% flow from any hiring adds.

So which part is false? If you have the time and you want to go to AC, best to go to any other 705 company currently hiring. It will be faster, and you will be making more money.

[QKZXKV]

The terms of the flow agreement have been violated. They are not meeting the numbers required and don't care. Jazz is not supposed to advertise flow anymore. It's dead. Don't come here if you think you will go to AC.

False...

What's false? The terms of the agreement were violated in 2022. Jazz accounted for about 30% instead of the required 60. They aren't making this up so far this year, and continue to be short. The union has told them to scrub the 60% flow from any hiring adds.

So which part is false? If you have the time and you want to go to AC, best to go to any other 705 company currently hiring. It will be faster, and you will be making more money.

Yes it was violated blatantly... the notion that no one from Jazz will ever go to AC like the CBC esque sensationalism on here by some is absolutely ridiculous. They aren't saying things like "if you have the time", they're flat out saying "no flow to AC at all" to paraphrase.

[truedude]

False...

What's false? The terms of the agreement were violated in 2022. Jazz accounted for about 30% instead of the required 60. They aren't making this up so far this year, and continue to be short. The union has told them to scrub the 60% flow from any hiring adds.

So which part is false? If you have the time and you want to go to AC, best to go to any other 705 company currently hiring. It will be faster, and you will be making more money.

Yes it was violated blatantly... the notion that no one from Jazz will ever go to AC like the CBC esque sensationalism on here by some is absolutely ridiculous. They aren't saying things like "if you have the time", they're flat out saying "no flow to AC at all" to paraphrase.

You are correct, people will still go to AC. But it will be faster to get there to go anywhere else. And you will make more. There is absolutely zero advantage to Jazz over everyone else.

[Inverted2]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

[Fanblade]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

[CanadianBronco]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

[truedude]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

Right... And he knows what? Nothing most likely. And you know, not everyone wants to work for AC.

[PostmasterGeneral]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

Right... And he knows what? Nothing most likely. And you know, not everyone wants to work for AC.

That one sailed right above you I think…

[truedude]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CobTK6gNxt1/

Right... And he knows what? Nothing most likely. And you know, not everyone wants to work for AC.

That one sailed right above you I think…

Suppose I walked into that one... well played!

[JoeyBarton]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

Very well, we all know that in all honesty. Now what does the future hold and is AC management working on the staffing issues at Jazz yes or no?

[truedude]

They have no reason to honour the 60% agreement. Why would they? It’s in their best interest to take pilots from the competition and keep you at Jazz making peanuts.
Are any of you AC hopefuls going to call them out on it? They could make flat pay 35k a year and most of you would be jumping over each other to get there. Sure the union can stomp its feet and issue statements but it won’t change a thing.

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

Very well, we all know that in all honesty. Now what does the future hold and is AC management working on the staffing issues at Jazz yes or no?

Who knows what the future holds. And if AC is working on staffing issues, there has been no indication that they are taking it seriously, or are even seem to care.

[Fanblade]

I think you may have miss read the thread.

Canada is a large thinly populated country. As such AC and WJ for that matter, are far more dependent on regional lift than their US counterparts. Many cities in the US have catchment areas with populations large enough they don’t need feed into them, and can still support flying by multiple carriers all over the world

Air Canada with possibly the exception of YYZ has no such catchment areas. AC is dependent on regional lift to meet its international ambitions.

Air Canada’s intent with the flow through was to use it as a carrot to staff Jazz at a wage discount. Much like the US carriers did. Initially it worked. However the pilot shortage eventually rendered the carrot ineffective on its own. Exactly what is happening now at Jazz.

This is about what AC is doing to attract talent at Jazz. It has nothing to do with attracting talent to AC. Currently AC is contracting its regional feed due to the failure to attract and retain talent. This isn’t a go forward strategy.

Jazz can’t attract talent with its current wages and a flow through. It will only get worse if the flow carrot vanishes, becomes inconsistent or unpredictable.

Very well, we all know that in all honesty. Now what does the future hold and is AC management working on the staffing issues at Jazz yes or no?

Who knows what the future holds. And if AC is working on staffing issues, there has been no indication that they are taking it seriously, or are even seem to care.

They plan summer peak for staffing. They aren’t currently looking beyond summer 2023. Give it 6-8 months. The deeper they dig the better.

[truedude]

So sad that they essentially abandoned this summer. Didn't need to be like this had they chosen to deal with the problem, instead of pretending there wasn't one.

[Nick678]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

[kiaszceski]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

Did you ask the MEC about this?

[Nick678]

Reps don’t know anything, I asked.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Reps don’t know anything, I asked.

They know they are retiring with a very healthy pension.

[averageatbest]

Since the MEC still hasn’t grieved the flow issue and the process is monitored quarterly, why the F wasn’t this dealt with last year? Before 300 Jazz pilots got screwed. Great to see how many WJ/encore pilots going over taking Jazz spots.

Are you a Jazz pilot?

You had the opportunity to file a grievance, but lost it 30 days after you became aware of the situation as per 26-2.01 of you CBA.