Recruiting Video

[Tbayer2021]

NOTED.

Personally;

I am a little tired of almost every thread being hijacked and becoming a rant on how horrible every company on the planet is.

I didn't realize this was only an airline union site not a diverse aviation site.

I don't know how you do it, Rookie. but your posts just keep getting dumber and dumber with every post. Just when you hit bedrock, you throwaway the shovel and ask for dynamite. Do you not realize the forum you're on? Let me make it clear for you, LARGE AIRLINE OPERATIONS and specifically WestJet. Even more specifically, a thread about a BS recruiting video made by the company in a pathetic attempt to make the job look attractive. The job is so attractive that one of the hand picked pilots has quit the company and started with AC a few weeks ago. If this is how a company man feels, it doesn't take a genius to extrapolate the general mood.

You want to talk about flying bug smashers? There is a place for that here as well, but it sure isn't at LARGE AIRLINE OPERATIONS.

[Canadaflyer46]

Why are people still conversing with this guy? He's not even a professional pilot, doesn't have any knowledge of how seniority works, and does nothing but talk down to everyone.
Back to the thread. The last ground school had 5 new hires in, the latest class has a grand total of ZERO. That's right. They had to cancel, sorry "postpone" the course. So now WJ can't find a single pilot willing to come here. All the while we lose 1 pilot every day on average. At this rate they will have to park planes soon.

[FlyAlberta]

Not much different for Encore even with the “retention” moa. Apparently 6 in the latest initial class.

Last year the plan was a class of 10 every 3 weeks. Then that changed to a class of 16 every month. Then a class of 10-12 a month. Now they’re lucky to run a full class.

[Tbayer2021]

Why are people still conversing with this guy? He's not even a professional pilot, doesn't have any knowledge of how seniority works, and does nothing but talk down to everyone.
Back to the thread. The last ground school had 5 new hires in, the latest class has a grand total of ZERO. That's right. They had to cancel, sorry "postpone" the course. So now WJ can't find a single pilot willing to come here. All the while we lose 1 pilot every day on average. At this rate they will have to park planes soon.

Honestly, based on how much he brags about being a "very successful" business owner. I'm starting to think he's a textbook case of being born on third base and thinking he hit a triple. Every self made person I know never brags about it, yet every single individual I've met that comes from generational wealth loves to brag about their money. It almost seems to be a way to internally cope with feelings of inadequacy.

But anyways, maybe this will be a wake up call for WJ management. Just mind blowing that they couldn't find a single person. Since companies only understand $$$ figures, maybe hurting their bottom line will get them to come to the table.

[digits_]

Back to the thread. The last ground school had 5 new hires in, the latest class has a grand total of ZERO. That's right. They had to cancel, sorry "postpone" the course. So now WJ can't find a single pilot willing to come here. All the while we lose 1 pilot every day on average. At this rate they will have to park planes soon.

They could easily fill the classes if they would drop the requirements to 250 hours. If they're not doing that, they might be using the 'lack of pilots' an excuse to reduce flying for other reasons (expecting recession, financial troubles, ...) while saving face.

[Canadaflyer46]

Back to the thread. The last ground school had 5 new hires in, the latest class has a grand total of ZERO. That's right. They had to cancel, sorry "postpone" the course. So now WJ can't find a single pilot willing to come here. All the while we lose 1 pilot every day on average. At this rate they will have to park planes soon.

They could easily fill the classes if they would drop the requirements to 250 hours. If they're not doing that, they might be using the 'lack of pilots' an excuse to reduce flying for other reasons (expecting recession, financial troubles, ...) while saving face.

I fully expect this to happen. Their current training program would need redesigning to provide several more sim sessions and a lot of extra line indoc. I am actually surprised they haven't already dropped the experience requirements from their 1500/ATPL to be honest.

[sarg]

That’s crazy to me.

I did not know that was the case. Aren’t there DEC positions?

News flash, since the covid pandemic hit, there have been plenty of expats coming back home going right seat as most had no choice.

I have heard of some going to Air Canada, starting on flat pay at 60k a year. We're talking about a380 captains, with 10000-20000 hours total time, as an example, sitting right seat at AC, regardless of what type they are flying now, making 60k before tax, after making 200-300k CAD a year, IN HAND, NO TAX.

I don't have an exact number for you of how many expat captains have gone right seat at AC, but what I can tell you is I personally know a few expats who have come back and gone to various different airlines, at the bottom of list right seat. These are all captains or senior FOs, most with over 10000 hours.

The only large airline that has taken direct entry captains is Flair, and a good part of that has to do with their expansion over the years and the need for high time captains. Just have a look on linkedin, type pilot then some legacy airline that is known for having mainly expats, and you will see a large swath of pilots that are now back in Canada. Some have stayed here, others have gone back when they got the opportunity... Like others have said, some can't go outside of Canada for various reasons, and others don't want to, much like how after the pandemic, some who could have gone back to their former airline outside of Canada decided not to

So before you say we are all entitled and should do x, y, z...there are so many variables that go into it, I don't think you quite understand the whole picture. I'm sure you have gained a lot of great experience in your life and ventures, but that doesn't always apply here, it really doesn't

Fair. I had no idea…experience is that worthless in Canada. That is sad.

I don’t understand seniority based systems. Obviously!

It's not just Canada or airlines even for that matter.

In any union or seniority based organization, the senior person get the promotion.

All major airlines in the USA, seniority not experience determines pay and rank. A good number in the EU are the same. The expat pilots in the ME and Asia are mercenaries. They are hired for their experience because the airlines there can't hire enough local pilots, like all mercenaries the are expendable, as Covid proved the expats were released from their contracts while the less experienced local pilots were retained. Which is one of the reasons many choose not to go expat, they know that they are mercenaries and expendable at any time.

[averageatbest]

I fully expect this to happen. Their current training program would need redesigning to provide several more sim sessions and a lot of extra line indoc. I am actually surprised they haven't already dropped the experience requirements from their 1500/ATPL to be honest.

The issue is that the training department is already stretched thin.

[C-GGGQ]

Back to the thread. The last ground school had 5 new hires in, the latest class has a grand total of ZERO. That's right. They had to cancel, sorry "postpone" the course. So now WJ can't find a single pilot willing to come here. All the while we lose 1 pilot every day on average. At this rate they will have to park planes soon.

They could easily fill the classes if they would drop the requirements to 250 hours. If they're not doing that, they might be using the 'lack of pilots' an excuse to reduce flying for other reasons (expecting recession, financial troubles, ...) while saving face.

I fully expect this to happen. Their current training program would need redesigning to provide several more sim sessions and a lot of extra line indoc. I am actually surprised they haven't already dropped the experience requirements from their 1500/ATPL to be honest.

I have 1500 and atpl had a mainline interview, pfo’d so they can’t be that desperate. Or they’re just not gonna run classes period

[averageatbest]

I have 1500 and atpl had a mainline interview, pfo’d so they can’t be that desperate. Or they’re just not gonna run classes period

I have a notable number of hours more than you, an ATPL, and 705 time and I have been PFO'd from airlines as well.

I messed up my interview and I assume you did too. WestJet is desperate for qualified pilots. Unfortunately for you, they deemed you unqualified.

[Oleo 4]

The training program is always being evaluated, measured, and redesigned as needed. Their is indeed more sessions now provided to accommodate lower timed pilots with pre-flight and sop’s prior to FMST. This now on top of recent additions of FMS workshops in 2022. Feedback from other instructors so far is positive. The learning curve is steep and a shared responsibility.

Don’t get too hung up on PFO’s, as mentioned at that given time you may have messed up or answered a question differently than planned. Re-evaluate the answers and giver another shot. I’m no behavioural interview expert, I interviewed myself to be on the hiring team years back a few times and could never get passed the second stage in that process.

A good buddy of mine got the letter because he kept swearing in the interview. He’s a beauty, but you can’t do that. We laugh about it now.

I remember when I had 1500-2000 hours I thought I knew everything. Honestly I didn’t know what I didn’t know. The industry is moving at light speed and you’ll end up somewhere. Try to enjoy the ride wherever you end up.

[C-GGGQ]

I’m not terribly upset by it (more surprised given how pleasant and smooth the interview went), just more pointing out a lot of the “they can’t find anyone” is just rumour mill nonsense.

[fixnfly]

.

[fixnfly]

I have 1500 and atpl had a mainline interview, pfo’d so they can’t be that desperate. Or they’re just not gonna run classes period

I have a notable number of hours more than you, an ATPL, and 705 time and I have been PFO'd from airlines as well.

I messed up my interview and I assume you did too. WestJet is desperate for qualified pilots. Unfortunately for you, they deemed you unqualified.

It’s hard to know what they’re looking for or what to improve on without feedback unfortunately. One of my former coworkers really wanted to work for them because he’s from YYC and has 3500-4000TT with an atpl, 705 experience, decent internal references and has been pfo’d from westjet 4 times now. Twice at encore and twice at mainline. I was honestly surprised they interviewed him that many times but his last interview was a couple months ago. Crazy thing is he worked for westjet in another capacity before flying too but hasn’t been able to get back on with them since. He’s at AC now so I guess it all works out in the end.

[lostaviator]

Hours are not the only requirement listed on the job posting. This goes for WJ and every other airline. Checking off all the hour and license requirements doesn’t guarantee a job offer. An interview invite simply means you did check off all those boxes and now a company wants to learn more about you.

You may have answered a question in a way the committee deemed inappropriate, bad reference check, or they may have felt your “values” weren’t aligned. Truth is, you’ll never actually know the reason. Is it a shitty feeling? Yep. But reapply in 6 months and go again.

Everything works out in the end. It’s a pilots market out there and everyone will end up in a desirable job one way or another. Company A’s loss is B’s gain.

[averageatbest]

Hours are not the only requirement listed on the job posting. This goes for WJ and every other airline. Checking off all the hour and license requirements doesn’t guarantee a job offer. An interview invite simply means you did check off all those boxes and now a company wants to learn more about you.

You may have answered a question in a way the committee deemed inappropriate, bad reference check, or they may have felt your “values” weren’t aligned. Truth is, you’ll never actually know the reason. Is it a shitty feeling? Yep. But reapply in 6 months and go again.

Everything works out in the end. It’s a pilots market out there and everyone will end up in a desirable job one way or another. Company A’s loss is B’s gain.

WestJet "values" used to be safety first and then customer service. Now it's profit first and profit second.

[Transition9er2]

Back to the thread. The last ground school had 5 new hires in, the latest class has a grand total of ZERO. That's right. They had to cancel, sorry "postpone" the course. So now WJ can't find a single pilot willing to come here. All the while we lose 1 pilot every day on average. At this rate they will have to park planes soon.

They could easily fill the classes if they would drop the requirements to 250 hours. If they're not doing that, they might be using the 'lack of pilots' an excuse to reduce flying for other reasons (expecting recession, financial troubles, ...) while saving face.

If WestJet mainline drops their hiring requirements to 250hrs, this industry is in BIG TROUBLE!

I don’t give a sh!t that airlines hire 250hrs in Europe therefore so should we. European airlines have experienced cadet programs, training facilities and the necessary instructors and training captains.

None of the airlines in this country have the framework in place to start taking on 250hr pilots… they can barely maintain training with 1500-2000 hr pilots coming online. Going to 250hrs just keep an airline moving when management refuses to pay industry standard salary’s is a VERY bad move.

[ant_321]

Back to the thread. The last ground school had 5 new hires in, the latest class has a grand total of ZERO. That's right. They had to cancel, sorry "postpone" the course. So now WJ can't find a single pilot willing to come here. All the while we lose 1 pilot every day on average. At this rate they will have to park planes soon.

They could easily fill the classes if they would drop the requirements to 250 hours. If they're not doing that, they might be using the 'lack of pilots' an excuse to reduce flying for other reasons (expecting recession, financial troubles, ...) while saving face.

If WestJet mainline drops their hiring requirements to 250hrs, this industry is in BIG TROUBLE!

I don’t give a sh!t that airlines hire 250hrs in Europe therefore so should we. European airlines have experienced cadet programs, training facilities and the necessary instructors and training captains.

None of the airlines in this country have the framework in place to start taking on 250hr pilots… they can barely maintain training with 1500-2000 hr pilots coming online. Going to 250hrs just keep an airline moving when management refuses to pay industry standard salary’s is a VERY bad move.

Nobody wants to see it but you are a little behind the times. Several Canadian airlines have been putting 250 hour pilots in the right seat for years now. Including 737’s.

[Transition9er2]

Absolutely, you’re correct.

What I meant to say was, none of the major airlines are setup to take on 250hrs new hires to fill their pilot needs.

I wouldn’t consider Sunwing a major airline.

[C-GGGQ]

Whether Sunwing is a “Major” or not doesn't matter in this context. Its a 705 scheduled airline. If they can train 250 hrs cadets so can the others. A 737 800 is a 737 800 paint scheme doesn’t change that.

[Oleo 4]

The industry continues to evolve while the hours entering most companies continue to fall. Some companies are not in a position to hire just anyone because they have a pulse and clean record to date. Alaska and Horizon for example decided that the best course was to park Q400's to ensure the jet operation was successful. At the moment their are still resumes coming to all airlines, some more than others. The 703/704 and northern 705 world however are stretched. I have yet to see some of them accept 250 hours pilots to fill rosters, so while encore has a recent ad out - I would suspect they aren't actively recruiting at that level.

As for the training program mentioned earlier in this thread being stretched thin. Last year with a large uptake through the simulators that may have existed. Most instructors now are less than half a schedule in the sim. During 2022 I was working a near full block in several facilities plus overtime. Their has been a little turnover in that department due to base, type moves, or some realising instructing may not be for them and want a line schedule again. That's okay.

Development of low time pilot (cadet) programs I'm sure is on the books at all companies in Canada. Some may chose the ab-initio day 1 route to select and monitor performance, others may be looking for the 250 hour multi/ifr candidate. What is certain right now is some lower time pilots will never have to roll several drums of gas up 2x6 planks while being paid milage. Enjoy the ride because one day you'll be sitting in a machine you monitor more than fly.

[fish4life]

I’m not sure what the case is at WJ but normally if you are going to change a training program it has to be approved by TC. I’d imagine changing a training program to accommodate 250 hour FO’s would be quite a big revision and not as easy as just dropping the experience requirement.

[Oleo 4]

There are two parts to an Operating Certificate at any airline. The Company Operations Manual and the Pilot Training Manual. Both are approved by transport and all amendments also must be approved. It would be a change to what exists currently but not impossible.

[digits_]

I’m not sure what the case is at WJ but normally if you are going to change a training program it has to be approved by TC. I’d imagine changing a training program to accommodate 250 hour FO’s would be quite a big revision and not as easy as just dropping the experience requirement.

Aren't the training requirements that are being sent to transport the minimum hours? I've never heard about TC objecting to giving pilots more time for training.

Additionally, are minimum hiring standards defined in any of those documents? Never worked for a company where they were in TC approved documents.

[Little Star]

The video idea is brilliant. ALPA is doing an excellent job. You will notice though, that your employer doesn't really care. They have far bigger problems to fix in the boardroom.