Another nice person...

[PilotDAR]

We post here, typing into the internet, that maybe it'll type back to us. Behind every post is a person! I met yet another very nice AvCanada person today, and we enjoyed chatting to the point that we closed the restaurant.

Never forget that it is simply nice people behind the posts we read here, people, who in a past era, we would have happily chatted with over a coffee in the flying club. I appreciate the people here, and the vast wisdom, and experience resource to be found here.

For those who join the group as new or wannabe pilots, never overlook the fact that there is immense experience from many posters here. Appreciate posts here as the people who offered them - as I do....

[goldeneagle]

Was a pleasure to meet up. Always interesting to see who is on the other side of the keyboard, rarely turns out to be what one expects.

[RoAF-Mig21]

AvCanada is one place where people can voice their true feelings and opinions without the fear of being reprimanded.

Canada is losing its freedom of speech at an alarming rate, and Canadians are hiding more and more behind anonymous nicknames and multiple accounts in fear of being admonished. That often ends up in "passionate and heated debates"... and sometime preposterous statements. It's to be expected. In some cases, if I'm to be honest with myself, it's also entertaining.

In today's society one can quickly be labeled a (insert antagonism) by its peers for not marching to the beat of social norms that are changing faster than some of us can wrap our heads around. This is not to say that an internet platform is okay to be used to attack other people.

Being an immigrant to Canada, I have a more direct approach to communicating my point of view, which may or may not be correct. As someone once said to me:

"Canadians are so used to 'dancing around' an uncomfortable subject that any direct communication or statements, come across as 'aggressive'."

But YES, at the end of the day we're all here to share information about our industry. It's a good way to blow off some steam and hopefully communicate in a more direct manner, something many of us are becoming paranoid about, fearing of offending an ever-growing society of "perpetually offended individuals".

[PilotDAR]

It's a good way to blow off some steam and hopefully communicate in a more direct manner, something many of us are becoming paranoid about, fearing of offending an ever-growing society of "perpetually offended individuals".

Hmmm... Okay, and that maybe...

Do people participate here to be the cushion for someone else's desire to blow off steam? That's not really why I'm here, but I guess we all need to offer a little, occasional support to a colleague who, on rare occasions, would like to blow off a little steam. (note the many qualifiers in that sentence).

We learn in flight training that direct, unambiguous, communication is best in the cockpit. I have learned that in polite conversation, "direct" communication is not always received as courteous. I suppose that AvCanada can be an intersection of cockpit talk and polite conversation....

But, when we want to be "direct", and "blow off steam" is that at someone? Or something? We all have our pet peeves, but hopefully, the pet peeve is a thing, rather than a person. The expectation at AvCanada, is that posters play the ball, not play the player. If you want someone else to consider your point of view with an open mind, blow your steam for them, rather than at them.

After nearly fifty years in aviation in Canada, spending three months in hospital after a training accident, watching my favourite plane I'd owned for 35 years burn in my hangar at 5AM, enduring numerous circuit and runway conflicts, and perceived injustices to me by others, I have come to realize that "blowing off steam" or "being direct" about it, does not get me anywhere near as far in life as putting on my big boy pants, and taking it with grace. The people I like, like to be around people who are generally cheerful, and don't take the shine off their day!

Last evening's dinner chat with Goldeneagle was, as all other personal meetings with AvCanada people I have had, a very pleasant, relaxed exchange of our common interest in aviation, and the basis for another nice get together in the future. Just what one wants to do in their evening while traveling for work! Would I join someone for dinner, if blowing off steam were likely on the menu...? Not so much....

For myself, whether typing here, or sitting across from you, my conduct and disposition will be the same. I have friends here, I will never have the pleasure to meet. For those I will meet, I want them to actually look forward to it!

[5x5]

I agree 100%. Nicely sated PilotDAR.

[JasonE]

I agree 100%. Nicely sated PilotDAR.

Hear here.

[digits_]

Leave it to PilotDAR to be a beacon of civility on AvCanada. Is anyone really surprised?

[RoAF-Mig21]

Thanks for the detailed answer PilotDAR.

Do people participate here to be the cushion for someone else's desire to blow off steam? That's not really why I'm here, but I guess we all need to offer a little, occasional support to a colleague who, on rare occasions, would like to blow off a little steam.

With all due respect, I think you missed the most important part of my statement. Absolutely we need to support each other. However my first point was that this was a platform to share information about our industry. My first, and primary point was:

“But YES, at the end of the day we're all here to share information about our industry”.

Then:
“It's a good way to blow off some steam and hopefully communicate in a more direct manner”

What differs here (AvCanada) and what I value is the fact that people can speak their mind here and not be afraid of political correctness or fear of reprimand from their companies. That’s why I’m here.

I have learned that in polite conversation, "direct" communication is not always received as courteous

Agreed 100%, but that’s one of Canada’s biggest charm (or problem, depending who you ask). People are more worried about being courteous than being themselves. I bet if you and I were to sit down and have a couple of beers we’d have a nice polite conversation. Look, nobody wants to spend time with someone that always complains. Not you, not me, and pilots are known to complain a lot.

I suppose that AvCanada can be an intersection of cockpit talk and polite conversation....

I believe it is. I’m not so sure about “polite”, but then again I’m not worried about that. I’m more interested in “factual information”.

If you want someone else to consider your point of view with an open mind, blow your steam for them, rather than at them.

100% agree.

…watching my favourite plane I'd owned for 35 years burn in my hangar at 5AM, enduring numerous circuit and runway conflicts, and perceived injustices to me by others, I have come to realize that "blowing off steam" or "being direct" about it, does not get me anywhere near as far in life as putting on my big boy pants, and taking it with grace. The people I like, like to be around people who are generally cheerful, and don't take the shine off their day!

Now that’s a very “Canadian way” of looking at it. I’d be very cheerful and happy if I had the opportunity to own my own hangar and airplane . Those are things that my poor immigrant brain cannot even comprehend. I’m very thankful I can afford a car that doesn’t break down on my three hour drive to work, because I can’t afford a proper home anywhere near my base. I’m thankful for the occasional meal I get in flight, so I don’t have to pay $25 for a sandwich and coffee, because most of my per-diems I need to use to pay my bills. I’m thankful for a the OnRoute, where I can sleep for 1–2 hours (in my car) on my way back home after being 2 hours late into YYZ. I’m also thankful for the fact that I don’t have to pay $2000 a month on childcare, like most people pay in the GTA. I also put my big boy pants on and get things done. After all, I paid for my own flight school, got married, had kids and I’m taking care of my family. I am however not going to pretend it was all “sunshine and roses”.

Why am I saying all this? It’s not to disagree with you. Fundamentally it’s who you are as a Canadian, but times have changed and this “happy go lucky” and “taking it with grace” attitude that many Canadians have is what got us here in the first place: a country ran by a corrupt government, where middle class Canadians are struggling to get by with every day basic expenses, myself included.

This forum for me is a place where we can hopefully band together and make a change. I have plenty of friends outside of aviation (and I want to emphasize that) because it gets me away from work and I can share the positive aspects of life with them. There are many of those too, not too sound too bitter at life, because I’m not. I genuinely have plenty of things that I’m thankful for.

And returning to your "airplane and hangar burning down", I’m sorry for that. I mean it. I’m sure you also worked hard for it, and it’s never nice to see one’s passion and hard work be consumed by fire. Hopefully insurance covered your loses and were able to get another airplane.

For myself, whether typing here, or sitting across from you, my conduct and disposition will be the same. I have friends here, I will never have the pleasure to meet. For those I will meet, I want them to actually look forward to it!

I can’t disagree with you here. I however am not here to make friends.Why did I comment on your “friendly, positive post”? I commented because, (just like you) I wanted to share a personal story about AvCanada.

You’ve been here a while and seems that people value your input, opinions and experience, myself included. See ya around the airport… maybe.

[Cliff Jumper]

You apologize or you're sorry?

I made this same mistake once at a funeral.

[rookiepilot]

Thanks for the detailed answer PilotDAR.

Do people participate here to be the cushion for someone else's desire to blow off steam? That's not really why I'm here, but I guess we all need to offer a little, occasional support to a colleague who, on rare occasions, would like to blow off a little steam.

With all due respect, I think you missed the most important part of my statement. Absolutely we need to support each other. However my first point was that this was a platform to share information about our industry. My first, and primary point was:

“But YES, at the end of the day we're all here to share information about our industry”.

Then:
“It's a good way to blow off some steam and hopefully communicate in a more direct manner”

What differs here (AvCanada) and what I value is the fact that people can speak their mind here and not be afraid of political correctness or fear of reprimand from their companies. That’s why I’m here.

I have learned that in polite conversation, "direct" communication is not always received as courteous

Agreed 100%, but that’s one of Canada’s biggest charm (or problem, depending who you ask). People are more worried about being courteous than being themselves. I bet if you and I were to sit down and have a couple of beers we’d have a nice polite conversation. Look, nobody wants to spend time with someone that always complains. Not you, not me, and pilots are known to complain a lot.

I suppose that AvCanada can be an intersection of cockpit talk and polite conversation....

I believe it is. I’m not so sure about “polite”, but then again I’m not worried about that. I’m more interested in “factual information”.

If you want someone else to consider your point of view with an open mind, blow your steam for them, rather than at them.

100% agree.

…watching my favourite plane I'd owned for 35 years burn in my hangar at 5AM, enduring numerous circuit and runway conflicts, and perceived injustices to me by others, I have come to realize that "blowing off steam" or "being direct" about it, does not get me anywhere near as far in life as putting on my big boy pants, and taking it with grace. The people I like, like to be around people who are generally cheerful, and don't take the shine off their day!

Now that’s a very “Canadian way” of looking at it. I’d be very cheerful and happy if I had the opportunity to own my own hangar and airplane . Those are things that my poor immigrant brain cannot even comprehend. I’m very thankful I can afford a car that doesn’t break down on my three hour drive to work, because I can’t afford a proper home anywhere near my base. I’m thankful for the occasional meal I get in flight, so I don’t have to pay $25 for a sandwich and coffee, because most of my per-diems I need to use to pay my bills. I’m thankful for a the OnRoute, where I can sleep for 1–2 hours (in my car) on my way back home after being 2 hours late into YYZ. I’m also thankful for the fact that I don’t have to pay $2000 a month on childcare, like most people pay in the GTA. I also put my big boy pants on and get things done. After all, I paid for my own flight school, got married, had kids and I’m taking care of my family. I am however not going to pretend it was all “sunshine and roses”.

Why am I saying all this? It’s not to disagree with you. Fundamentally it’s who you are as a Canadian, but times have changed and this “happy go lucky” and “taking it with grace” attitude that many Canadians have is what got us here in the first place: a country ran by a corrupt government, where middle class Canadians are struggling to get by with every day basic expenses, myself included.

This forum for me is a place where we can hopefully band together and make a change. I have plenty of friends outside of aviation (and I want to emphasize that) because it gets me away from work and I can share the positive aspects of life with them. There are many of those too, not too sound too bitter at life, because I’m not. I genuinely have plenty of things that I’m thankful for.

And returning to your "airplane and hangar burning down", I’m sorry for that. I mean it. I’m sure you also worked hard for it, and it’s never nice to see one’s passion and hard work be consumed by fire. Hopefully insurance covered your loses and were able to get another airplane.

For myself, whether typing here, or sitting across from you, my conduct and disposition will be the same. I have friends here, I will never have the pleasure to meet. For those I will meet, I want them to actually look forward to it!

I can’t disagree with you here. I however am not here to make friends.Why did I comment on your “friendly, positive post”? I commented because, (just like you) I wanted to share a personal story about AvCanada.

You’ve been here a while and seems that people value your input, opinions and experience, myself included. See ya around the airport… maybe.

Well said Mig21.

I fully agree as one who also had an accident, lost an airplane, and later lost something a lot more precious in my life than any airplane, at least in my view. An airplane is a piece of metal. Nothing more.

It may not translate here, but I still choose to be thankful in life. Whatever. This is not the place for that kind of discussion. I’ll save that kind of conversation for my friends.

Here, I choose to be direct, as would rather be that way and not see a pilot die for my lack of direct language on safety, than be polite and say nothing. I’ll keep saying, directly, as a pilot, be real careful with a strong tailwind on base. Why? Because i know numerous fatal stall spin accidents have happened out of that scenario, and I experienced myself the powerful temptation to step hard on the rudder, to correct overshooting of the centerline. If I offend someone, I offend.

This is not the remotely the same environment here, as an in person coffee together with a friend.

There is a place for nice, and a place for direct. Aviation is mainly the place where the latter is wise, as primary over the former.

Accidents are littered with pilots who were “nice”.

[PilotDAR]

Thanks for the thoughtful posts RoAF and RookiePilot,

Just to maintain good context;

Now that’s a very “Canadian way” of looking at it. I’d be very cheerful and happy if I had the opportunity to own my own hangar and airplane

I bought the 150 for $7000 in 1987, every penny I had saved, and broke for months. The hangar, I built myself, with trees from my forest, it was very modest. The aviation industry has been good to me, but I have worded for it!

This is not the remotely the same environment here, as an in person coffee together with a friend.

I thought about this while I was taking cowls off this afternoon... I see it differently. If a number of us here, were casually together, would it be more likely over a coffee? Or in a cockpit? I think over the coffee... Yes, in the cockpit, direct, and unambiguous. Over coffee, more relaxed, and making the effort to be a member of a more relaxed social group. For all the AvCanada members I have met, and flown with, I have also stayed for social [coffee also, with one exception, a person who had another family commitment after we flew, so we had to bid farewell earlier than we probably wanted.

In any case, I'm happy to be relaxed and appreciative of my fellow AvCanada members. If I feel a need to be direct, maybe I will be....