Flair Airlines - Planes seized

[DanWEC]

What a raging idiot.

[flyinhigh]

Hey look, The used car salesman hasn’t been here defending his companies amazing actions

[averageatbest]

You’re right about one thing. F—k the left! Every single person who voted Liberal or NDP deserves not only to lose their jobs but forever be in astronomical physical pain!

Maybe you missed my one expectation. Be a good person.

If you think that someone with a different opinion than you should experience a large amount of pain, you are not a person worth any amount of time.

Good luck in life with your negative attitude.

You are now on my ignore list and as a result, I will not have to see any drivel you may post.

[dialdriver]

...For those of us who saw this coming, it’s hard to stop laughing...

I don't think those are the words I'd choose to discribe it. Many fellow Canadians, including some friends of mine work there, and it won't be a good thing if they do indeed lose their jobs.

That's capitalism though, survival of the fittest* ( in a Canadian context... )

It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when "ambition" is greater than "capability". That responsability is not on the workers though, it's on management. One airline's loss is another's gain. There is something to be said about gettign on with a stable airline, dig in and enjoy that climb up the seniority ladder.

We have a saying in the old country "Don't give the crow in your hand for the eagle on the fence". I'm sure there's an English equivalent. Unfortunately some pilots in this country take risks to "jump the que" sort to speak. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they pay the price and end up jobless after a while. I'm not suggesting this is the case here. It's just an example.

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

[golden hawk]

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/flair-airl ... -1.6309482

[digits_]

It is possible flair is becoming a Ponzi scheme. If you book a flight for next month, your payment is being used to make these lease payments to keep the system afloat.

Isn't that literally how every airline operates?

(Not meant as a joke)

[throwawaycorporate]

It is possible flair is becoming a Ponzi scheme. If you book a flight for next month, your payment is being used to make these lease payments to keep the system afloat.

Isn't that literally how every airline operates?

(Not meant as a joke)

Welcome to the business cycle

You book a hotel in advance, it pays today's bills.
Those 1 year gym subscription deals, pay today's bills.
Even eating out at a restaurant pays for the food that was previously ordered

[derk99]

Been told from the fueling company in YOW that it’s now cash on the dash or no fuel and that 3 other fueling companies are demanding payment before being fueled.

[safetyfirst123]

I'm following averageatbest's lead and putting this guy on the ignore list. We need to give these sort of people less oxygen on AvCanada.

Good luck to the Flair pilots, we should all support each other in this industry to raise the tides!

[schnitzel2k3]

Not sure what this means for them, could be nothing, could be something - but they got in bed with some no bullsheet mf's down in New York. I think their head office might be in Jersey.

[dumbbell daddy]

If anything happens to Flair this will not be good for wage and working conditions in this country. I bet AC management is salivating over all these Boeing qualified guys being available soon.

[flyinhigh]

I feel for all the crews there. If Flair does go down, each and everyone of you will have a seat to get home to your loved ones with me. Hang in there, as I can only imagine the stress your under.

The management team at Flair deserves a smack upside the head. Renegotiate lease rates when your $50 fares can’t pay the bills. I’d say piss off as well. The companies don’t just take this action over 1 mill, this has clearly been ongoing for quite awhile.

[JHR]

The writing was on the wall for a long time. Pilots owed thousands in overtime and not being paid. Pilots who quit not receiving final pay and not being able to contact anyone. Some Training providers not being paid for two years.
Best of luck to all involved. Hopefully a nice smooth transition into other jobs.

[RoAF-Mig21]

If anything happens to Flair this will not be good for wage and working conditions in this country. I bet AC management is salivating over all these Boeing qualified guys being available soon.

Doesn't matter. Being "Boeing qualified" doesn't mean you'll be flying a Boeing at AC. Boeing, RJ, Embraer, it's all the same. An ex Flair guy may end up right seat on an A220 and a Porter guy from the Q400 on the 777.

[Floop]

This is either gonna go one of two ways. Either flair weather's the storm, I'm sure with a big cash influx from their investors, and carries on, regardless of what somebody maybe heard a fueller in Ottawa say. Or things break down very quickly and we'll know in a week or two. Who knows, everything said on here is speculation.

Either way the folks on here are making gleeful posts about flair crashing when the reality is hundreds of your peers (not to mention every non pilot employee at the airline) are facing possible unemployment.

Say flair does end and westjet pilots strike, good luck being able to afford flights in May. Canada needs the competition, Flair failing would be a loss for all of us.

[Duke86]

This is either gonna go one of two ways. Either flair weather's the storm, I'm sure with a big cash influx from their investors, and carries on, regardless of what somebody maybe heard a fueller in Ottawa say. Or things break down very quickly and we'll know in a week or two. Who knows, everything said on here is speculation.

Either way the folks on here are making gleeful posts about flair crashing when the reality is hundreds of your peers (not to mention every non pilot employee at the airline) are facing possible unemployment.

Say flair does end and westjet pilots strike, good luck being able to afford flights in May. Canada needs the competition, Flair failing would be a loss for all of us.

I couldn't agree more. It's one less option for pilots trying to find a decent job in this country, which is a win for management at the remaining airlines.

[Ash Ketchum]

This is either gonna go one of two ways. Either flair weather's the storm, I'm sure with a big cash influx from their investors, and carries on, regardless of what somebody maybe heard a fueller in Ottawa say. Or things break down very quickly and we'll know in a week or two. Who knows, everything said on here is speculation.

Either way the folks on here are making gleeful posts about flair crashing when the reality is hundreds of your peers (not to mention every non pilot employee at the airline) are facing possible unemployment.

Say flair does end and westjet pilots strike, good luck being able to afford flights in May. Canada needs the competition, Flair failing would be a loss for all of us.

I couldn't agree more. It's one less option for pilots trying to find a decent job in this country, which is a win for management at the remaining airlines.

Agreed, less chance of getting a massive win on a contract renewal if other airlines aren't around to outbid each other for pilots.

[MKFlair]

No cash for fuel at airports. The airports themselves are irrelevant as its it the fuel provider (Shell etc) that provide fuel across the country. The into plane providers work at the behest of the oil companies and paid by them who, in turn, invoice the airlines.

Second rumor - if the other lessors are 'concerned' they would pull their aircraft as soon as they are not paid. No one has done so. If in the next week we don't see other lessors 'seizing' their aircraft then it lends credence to the fact that leases are being paid.

[billhill]

Business is simply a confidence game.. and when people lose confidence the business is over. That is what is happening and Flair is done. Looks like a lot of people on here have never taken part in or witnessed a bankruptcy. You are going to see a lot more.

[JakeLRS]

The one airline that actually wanted to serve smaller markets will now probably go under.
What a shame, flair made a huge difference in the Canadian aviation landscape and lowered prices of airfares for the past 6 years.
Their loads are absolutely amazing this week (obviously), but even in the few weeks prior, their core routes were performing well. But Flair did make some really stupid business decisions that ruined their reputation; such as the Tucson disaster.

It would be nice to see a government bail-out, given how flair has completely altered the Canadian Aviation landscape and given how they actually serve smaller airports in the country, but I doubt it'll happen since its not Air Canada.

[FlyingMonkey]

The one airline that actually wanted to serve smaller markets will now probably go under.
What a shame, flair made a huge difference in the Canadian aviation landscape and lowered prices of airfares for the past 6 years.
Their loads are absolutely amazing this week (obviously), but even in the few weeks prior, their core routes were performing well. But Flair did make some really stupid business decisions that ruined their reputation; such as the Tucson disaster.

It would be nice to see a government bail-out, given how flair has completely altered the Canadian Aviation landscape and given how they actually serve smaller airports in the country, but I doubt it'll happen since its not Air Canada.

We should not be bailing out companies with a business model that doesn’t work. That would kick the stone down the road and just delay the inevitable. ULCC model does not work in Canada.

[flyingcanuck]

If anything happens to Flair this will not be good for wage and working conditions in this country. I bet AC management is salivating over all these Boeing qualified guys being available soon.

Doesn't matter. Being "Boeing qualified" doesn't mean you'll be flying a Boeing at AC. Boeing, RJ, Embraer, it's all the same. An ex Flair guy may end up right seat on an A220 and a Porter guy from the Q400 on the 777.

It's because AC now has a fast-track training program for the 37, and AC reserves the right to put you on a course. So yeah, it would save them $$$.

[cdnavater]

The one airline that actually wanted to serve smaller markets will now probably go under.
What a shame, flair made a huge difference in the Canadian aviation landscape and lowered prices of airfares for the past 6 years.
Their loads are absolutely amazing this week (obviously), but even in the few weeks prior, their core routes were performing well. But Flair did make some really stupid business decisions that ruined their reputation; such as the Tucson disaster.

It would be nice to see a government bail-out, given how flair has completely altered the Canadian Aviation landscape and given how they actually serve smaller airports in the country, but I doubt it'll happen since its not Air Canada.

Not completely unrelated but my daughter and her boyfriend recently travelled on Flair and they both agreed never again, I wonder if Canadians are truly going to accept the ULCC style carrier.
People don’t realize you pay a la carte for everything, when you check in they randomly assign you a seat and even though the seat beside you is open, to sit with your travel partner is a charge.
Not to mention they are both average size and said they had no room, “squeezed” is the term they used.
By the way, loads don’t mean profit

[VmcAllTheWayDown]

Looking at todays Flair flights, don’t see any cancelled flights. Meanwhile WJ has cancelled their YYC-YKF flight.

Obviously this is very rocky for Flair at the moment, I’m
holding some optimism. Any airline going out of business does no good for Canadian aviation. Shame on the ones on here rooting for flair failure, we need to be propping each other up with support here.

[bcflyer]

This is either gonna go one of two ways. Either flair weather's the storm, I'm sure with a big cash influx from their investors, and carries on, regardless of what somebody maybe heard a fueller in Ottawa say. Or things break down very quickly and we'll know in a week or two. Who knows, everything said on here is speculation.

Either way the folks on here are making gleeful posts about flair crashing when the reality is hundreds of your peers (not to mention every non pilot employee at the airline) are facing possible unemployment.

Say flair does end and westjet pilots strike, good luck being able to afford flights in May. Canada needs the competition, Flair failing would be a loss for all of us.

I couldn't agree more. It's one less option for pilots trying to find a decent job in this country, which is a win for management at the remaining airlines.

Agreed, less chance of getting a massive win on a contract renewal if other airlines aren't around to outbid each other for pilots.

AC still needs about 800 + pilots, WJ is short, Jazz is terrible short. CJ is hiring. A couple hundred e tea pilots aren’t going to make much difference.