Procedure Turns

[photofly]

Where a "course reversal" (the official name for a procedure turn) is charted, there is a certain volume of protected airspace guaranteed safe from terrain and other traffic; as long as you remain within the protected airspace, the method and path you fly to turn your aircraft around is entirely up to you.

I believe in the US where a racetrack is charted you must use it; but that's a US rule so won't come up in the INRAT.

[lownslow]

procedure turns

Anyways, notice they’re just all more or less variations on a hold entry and take 4-6 minutes. I’m not sure there’s much to be asked about them on an exam other than questions about which airspace is protected for you and in the case of uncontrolled airspace how long it’s protected for.

[photofly]

Here's the source for the different types of reversal:

https://ffac.ch/wp-content/uploads/2020 ... edures.pdf

See section 3.2.2 and following.

[photofly]

How can uncontrolled airspace be protected?

[dialdriver]

Hey guys, I'm studying for my INRAT right now. And I'm going through the procedure turns slides from pilottraining.ca. I can not for the life of me find out the source of the procedure turns.

I see these methods:

• Hockey Stick / Standard

• Racetrack

• S-Turn

• Modified Racetrack

I search the AIM, CAP GEN, TC Flight Training Manual even, CFS, and yes From The Ground Up. There's nothing in these books discussing these methods. Ctrl-F brings up nothing. Where in the hell are these procedures coming from? Thin air? Lol thanks. I've even screen shot the picture, then searched by image on google, I can find the picture on an American website. But again, no sources.

The bullshit thing is in the AIM, it actually states that procedure turns may potentially cause mid-air collisions at major airports. But knowing my luck, this will be the question I get wrong that will put me at 68% instead of the 70% to pass. So I'm looking for your help. Thanks, lol

I don't have it in front of me right now, but I believe the Instrument Procedures Manual will cover procedure turn variations.

[dialdriver]

How can uncontrolled airspace be protected?

It is protected by communication with other aircraft as outlined in the AIM.

[photofly]

I don't have it in front of me right now, but I believe the Instrument Procedures Manual will cover procedure turn variations.

You are correct - page 4-41.

How can uncontrolled airspace be protected?

It is protected by communication with other aircraft as outlined in the AIM.

I don't see anything in the AIM that's relevant. When you get a chance, can you elaborate?

[rookiepilot]

Where a "course reversal" (the official name for a procedure turn) is charted, there is a certain volume of protected airspace guaranteed safe from terrain and other traffic; as long as you remain within the protected airspace, the method and path you fly to turn your aircraft around is entirely up to you.

I believe in the US where a racetrack is charted you must use it; but that's a US rule so won't come up in the INRAT.

Usually the protected side is on one specific side of the final approach course.

[rookiepilot]

Hey guys, I'm studying for my INRAT right now. And I'm going through the procedure turns slides from pilottraining.ca. I can not for the life of me find out the source of the procedure turns.

I see these methods:

• Hockey Stick / Standard

• Racetrack

• S-Turn

• Modified Racetrack

I search the AIM, CAP GEN, TC Flight Training Manual even, CFS, and yes From The Ground Up. There's nothing in these books discussing these methods. Ctrl-F brings up nothing. Where in the hell are these procedures coming from? Thin air? Lol thanks. I've even screen shot the picture, then searched by image on google, I can find the picture on an American website. But again, no sources.

The bullshit thing is in the AIM, it actually states that procedure turns may potentially cause mid-air collisions at major airports. But knowing my luck, this will be the question I get wrong that will put me at 68% instead of the 70% to pass. So I'm looking for your help. Thanks, lol

I don't have it in front of me right now, but I believe the Instrument Procedures Manual will cover procedure turn variations.

I just can't believe I was never introduced to this document until JUST now.

... Can you please name all the documents I SHOULD have? God Almighty.

I can’t either. Where is your instructor? IPM is the bible for this…..

[dialdriver]

I don't have it in front of me right now, but I believe the Instrument Procedures Manual will cover procedure turn variations.

You are correct - page 4-41.

How can uncontrolled airspace be protected?

It is protected by communication with other aircraft as outlined in the AIM.

I don't see anything in the AIM that's relevant. When you get a chance, can you elaborate?

Ser RAC 8.10, 9.12 and 9.13.

[dialdriver]

I don't have it in front of me right now, but I believe the Instrument Procedures Manual will cover procedure turn variations.

I just can't believe I was never introduced to this document until JUST now.

... Can you please name all the documents I SHOULD have? God Almighty.

I can’t either. Where is your instructor? IPM is the bible for this…..

Your primary reference documents are the AIM, CAP, IFR Charts, CFS, CARS and IPM.

[photofly]

I don't have it in front of me right now, but I believe the Instrument Procedures Manual will cover procedure turn variations.

You are correct - page 4-41.

It is protected by communication with other aircraft as outlined in the AIM.

I don't see anything in the AIM that's relevant. When you get a chance, can you elaborate?

Ser RAC 8.10, 9.12 and 9.13.

I looked at those parts carefully and I don't see anything that answers your point here about which uncontrolled airspace is being protected for you, by whom, and for how long:

m not sure there’s much to be asked about them on an exam other than questions about which airspace is protected for you and in the case of uncontrolled airspace how long it’s protected for.

Can you be more specific?

[khedrei]

I wouldnt stress about this if I were you. But you should go through the IPM.

I used sharper edge when I did mine and also knew and understood the cap very well. If you do that you should be fine. I didnt find it to be a very tough exam.

[dialdriver]

You are correct - page 4-41.


I don't see anything in the AIM that's relevant. When you get a chance, can you elaborate?

Ser RAC 8.10, 9.12 and 9.13.

I looked at those parts carefully and I don't see anything that answers your point here about which uncontrolled airspace is being protected for you, by whom, and for how long:

m not sure there’s much to be asked about them on an exam other than questions about which airspace is protected for you and in the case of uncontrolled airspace how long it’s protected for.

Can you be more specific?

The airspace is not protected for you. It is 'protected' through blind broadcasts, position reports and pilots directly resolving conflicts with other pilots.

The quote about exam questions was not my statement, it was lownslow's. No idea how you quoted me on something I didn't write.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I actually did a procedure turn on my IFR initial flight test......in 1986

With all approaches rapidly transitioning to RNAV T shaped procedures the chance of you actually having to do one in the real world is diminishing by the day.

Bottom line is don't over think the question. A procedure turn is like every other part of an instrument approach. Each leg will have a published altitude and track or heading. The outbound part of the procedure (i.e. the turn away from the outbound course to start the reversal) is flown for one minute. For a procedure turn on an ILS you fly outbound until you are above the glideslope before starting the reversal. All the airspace on the side of the procedure turn is protected. Anything non standard will be in the approach plate notes. That is all you should have to know to pass the test.

[tsgarp]

With all approaches rapidly transitioning to RNAV T shaped procedures the chance of you actually having to do one in the real world is diminishing by the day.

….wait until Xi the Pooh throws a few billion ball bearings into low Earth orbit and takes out the GPS constellation…

[photofly]

The quote about exam questions was not my statement, it was lownslow's. No idea how you quoted me on something I didn't write.

Yes - my bad. Maybe he can answer the question about what he meant?

[Aviatard]

For a procedure turn on an ILS you fly outbound until you are above the glideslope before starting the reversal.

You mean until you are below the glide slope, right?

[Bede]

Is an approach with a procedure turn ever asked on the flight test?

[Big Pistons Forever]

For a procedure turn on an ILS you fly outbound until you are above the glideslope before starting the reversal.

You mean until you are below the glide slope, right?

Yes of course and I am going to blame Microsoft autocorrect for the typo

[rigpiggy]

Did a hand flown full procedure for my faa test last year

[dialdriver]

What about balanced field lengths? Not much to find in these documents.

Not required for light twins.

[photofly]

Is an approach with a procedure turn ever asked on the flight test?

Mostly the candidate can plan whatever approaches are reasonable for the route they filed and the weather. One needs to be a precision approach or otherwise have vertical guidance but that's the only stipulation on what's flown. And I don't think it's normal for the examiner to step in. I was always suggested to get on the radio and ask for vectors to the localizer.