New pay scales

[CaptDukeNukem]

Well, that's $1000 more than Year 1 at Jazz each month.
How much are the perdiems and what's the average for a block holder?

Per diem rate is 3.60$ per duty hour. Q block holders around the 70-80 mark right now. Min guarantee is 80. Anything after 85 is OT. I believe there’s plenty of OT to be had. Paid at 1.5 on GDOs or VAC regardless of how many credits accrued.

Small clarification (not trying to nit pick), per diem is $3.60/hour duty + time away from base. I figure the following:

1 day = ~$50
2 day = ~$125
3 day = ~$210
4 day = ~$350

I dont work a lot of multi days and I usually have ~$300-$400 per pay check.

You’re right. That’s what I meant lol, just typed in incorrectly. Thanks for clarification

[cdnavater]

Porter pilots, some of you are ex Jazz and very vocal about our pay, so here is a breakdown of cost per available seat, not seat mile, just how many seats versus hourly wage.
Porter E2 Top scale

Captain 227.96/132= 1.726
FO 135.71/132=1.028
Jazz top scale(stripped out the 200s which is 10% of the total seats)
Captain 143.50/76= 1.888
FO 89.66/76= 1.179
Porter bottom E2
160.63/132= 1.216
65.10/132= .493
Jazz bottom
96.68/76= 1.272
51.74/76= .68

Porter Q400
Top
124.30/76= 1.635
76.14/76= 1.001
Bottom
91.57/76= 1.204
50.01/76= .658
In all cases Jazz pilots are paid more per seat, obviously stage length will drive those costs down but bare bones, more per seat at Jazz and I excluded the 200s because there are likely leaving sooner than later so not a huge factor in the status pay formula.
You are worth more, maybe instead of comparing to Jazz, have a look at AC 220s, how do you compare to them?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Porter pilots, some of you are ex Jazz and very vocal about our pay, so here is a breakdown of cost per available seat, not seat mile, just how many seats versus hourly wage.
Porter E2 Top scale

Captain 227.96/132= 1.726
FO 135.71/132=1.028
Jazz top scale(stripped out the 200s which is 10% of the total seats)
Captain 143.50/76= 1.888
FO 89.66/76= 1.179
Porter bottom E2
160.63/132= 1.216
65.10/132= .493
Jazz bottom
96.68/76= 1.272
51.74/76= .68

Porter Q400
Top
124.30/76= 1.635
76.14/76= 1.001
Bottom
91.57/76= 1.204
50.01/76= .658

In all cases Jazz pilots are paid more per seat, obviously stage length will drive those costs down but bare bones, more per seat at Jazz and I excluded the 200s because there are likely leaving sooner than later so not a huge factor in the status pay formula.
You are worth more, maybe instead of comparing to Jazz, have a look at AC 220s, how do you compare to them?

Look at your own post dude.

Jazz captain top scale is less than porter year 1 e2 captain pay. You make more per seat… good job. I make more than you and you’re a trainer with 20 years service.

Benchmarking was done using the 220s in the formula. Cut the crap and go to bed, call the MEC and complain. I did, nothing happened, so I went to porter. No, I won’t make as much as a AC 220 captain, and especially their pension, but I ran the numbers, my break even point is too far down the line.

Who cares if you have 78 seats versus 132. It’s mostly the same work. We aren’t talking king air to jet comparison.

[cdnavater]

Porter pilots, some of you are ex Jazz and very vocal about our pay, so here is a breakdown of cost per available seat, not seat mile, just how many seats versus hourly wage.
Porter E2 Top scale

Captain 227.96/132= 1.726
FO 135.71/132=1.028
Jazz top scale(stripped out the 200s which is 10% of the total seats)
Captain 143.50/76= 1.888
FO 89.66/76= 1.179
Porter bottom E2
160.63/132= 1.216
65.10/132= .493
Jazz bottom
96.68/76= 1.272
51.74/76= .68

Porter Q400
Top
124.30/76= 1.635
76.14/76= 1.001
Bottom
91.57/76= 1.204
50.01/76= .658

In all cases Jazz pilots are paid more per seat, obviously stage length will drive those costs down but bare bones, more per seat at Jazz and I excluded the 200s because there are likely leaving sooner than later so not a huge factor in the status pay formula.
You are worth more, maybe instead of comparing to Jazz, have a look at AC 220s, how do you compare to them?

Look at your own post dude.

Jazz captain top scale is less than porter year 1 e2 captain pay. You make more per seat… good job. I make more than you and you’re a trainer with 20 years service.

Benchmarking was done using the 220s in the formula. Cut the crap and go to bed, call the MEC and complain. I did, nothing happened, so I went to porter. No, I won’t make as much as a AC 220 captain, and especially their pension, but I ran the numbers, my break even point is too far down the line.

Who cares if you have 78 seats versus 132. It’s mostly the same work. We aren’t talking king air to jet comparison.

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

[8895]

Porter pilots, some of you are ex Jazz and very vocal about our pay, so here is a breakdown of cost per available seat, not seat mile, just how many seats versus hourly wage.
Porter E2 Top scale

Captain 227.96/132= 1.726
FO 135.71/132=1.028
Jazz top scale(stripped out the 200s which is 10% of the total seats)
Captain 143.50/76= 1.888
FO 89.66/76= 1.179
Porter bottom E2
160.63/132= 1.216
65.10/132= .493
Jazz bottom
96.68/76= 1.272
51.74/76= .68

Porter Q400
Top
124.30/76= 1.635
76.14/76= 1.001
Bottom
91.57/76= 1.204
50.01/76= .658

In all cases Jazz pilots are paid more per seat, obviously stage length will drive those costs down but bare bones, more per seat at Jazz and I excluded the 200s because there are likely leaving sooner than later so not a huge factor in the status pay formula.
You are worth more, maybe instead of comparing to Jazz, have a look at AC 220s, how do you compare to them?

Look at your own post dude.

Jazz captain top scale is less than porter year 1 e2 captain pay. You make more per seat… good job. I make more than you and you’re a trainer with 20 years service.

Benchmarking was done using the 220s in the formula. Cut the crap and go to bed, call the MEC and complain. I did, nothing happened, so I went to porter. No, I won’t make as much as a AC 220 captain, and especially their pension, but I ran the numbers, my break even point is too far down the line.

Who cares if you have 78 seats versus 132. It’s mostly the same work. We aren’t talking king air to jet comparison.

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Dude I’ve never seen someone drink the stale koolaid at jazz for so long on here you worried that both AC and porter are killing off jazz or something? Seems like you’re fighting for your long tenured career there with the way you’re posting in the porter forums lol

Porter is by no means perfect, even by Canadian airline standards which is already pathetically low, but stop trying to pump the jazz tires when every single FO I know there is living with their parents or 5 roommates just to make ends somewhat meet. I’m sure someone’s already asked, but if jazz is so much better than porter why is jazz losing on average a pilot a day? From what I’ve heard that stat isn’t even including AC attrition.

[cdnavater]

Look at your own post dude.

Jazz captain top scale is less than porter year 1 e2 captain pay. You make more per seat… good job. I make more than you and you’re a trainer with 20 years service.

Benchmarking was done using the 220s in the formula. Cut the crap and go to bed, call the MEC and complain. I did, nothing happened, so I went to porter. No, I won’t make as much as a AC 220 captain, and especially their pension, but I ran the numbers, my break even point is too far down the line.

Who cares if you have 78 seats versus 132. It’s mostly the same work. We aren’t talking king air to jet comparison.

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Dude I’ve never seen someone drink the stale koolaid at jazz for so long on here you worried that both AC and porter are killing off jazz or something? Seems like you’re fighting for your long tenured career there with the way you’re posting in the porter forums lol

Porter is by no means perfect, even by Canadian airline standards which is already pathetically low, but stop trying to pump the jazz tires when every single FO I know there is living with their parents or 5 roommates just to make ends somewhat meet. I’m sure someone’s already asked, but if jazz is so much better than porter why is jazz losing on average a pilot a day? From what I’ve heard that stat isn’t even including AC attrition.

I can’t defend the starting pay at Jazz, no question it’s abysmal but I can defend disinformation about the company. As for you, I was curious so I looked back at your posts, you barely left perimeter a year ago, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight with me, you haven’t lived the industry long enough to understand it.
Go ahead and compare every single aircraft at AC with my super easy method, hourly wage divided by seats in the back, it is our cost per hour. I did it years ago and in most cases our(Jazz) cost per seat was on par or even slightly above, a few were higher at AC but very close overall. Pretty hard to demand or even justify big increases when the mother ship who pays our bills is paying their pilots essentially the same.

[8895]

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Dude I’ve never seen someone drink the stale koolaid at jazz for so long on here you worried that both AC and porter are killing off jazz or something? Seems like you’re fighting for your long tenured career there with the way you’re posting in the porter forums lol

Porter is by no means perfect, even by Canadian airline standards which is already pathetically low, but stop trying to pump the jazz tires when every single FO I know there is living with their parents or 5 roommates just to make ends somewhat meet. I’m sure someone’s already asked, but if jazz is so much better than porter why is jazz losing on average a pilot a day? From what I’ve heard that stat isn’t even including AC attrition.

I can’t defend the starting pay at Jazz, no question it’s abysmal but I can defend disinformation about the company. As for you, I was curious so I looked back at your posts, you barely left perimeter a year ago, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight with me, you haven’t lived the industry long enough to understand it.
Go ahead and compare every single aircraft at AC with my super easy method, hourly wage divided by seats in the back, it is our cost per hour. I did it years ago and in most cases our(Jazz) cost per seat was on par or even slightly above, a few were higher at AC but very close overall. Pretty hard to demand or even justify big increases when the mother ship who pays our bills is paying their pilots essentially the same.

Oh ok thanks boomer, I’m so happy all your years of experience at jazz have allowed you to come up with this super easy formula! I saw you debating that figure with porters using that formula and somehow trying to justify jazz’s when compared? Even though porters Y1 E2 skipper salary is more than a topped out jazz skipper?? Not sure how expensive housing was when you were younger, but when determining your budget, there’s this thing called an annual salary that you need to look at, not your formula. If the older generation is using logic like yours when debating issues it’s no wonder everyone my age will never own a home LOL

It’s funny because I guarantee us “kids” who haven’t been in the industry for over a decade, that you seem so eager to discredit based off your ageist remark, could negotiate better WAWCON then your peers have

Will my opinion be valid before or after your 2035 contract expires??

[cdnavater]

Dude I’ve never seen someone drink the stale koolaid at jazz for so long on here you worried that both AC and porter are killing off jazz or something? Seems like you’re fighting for your long tenured career there with the way you’re posting in the porter forums lol

Porter is by no means perfect, even by Canadian airline standards which is already pathetically low, but stop trying to pump the jazz tires when every single FO I know there is living with their parents or 5 roommates just to make ends somewhat meet. I’m sure someone’s already asked, but if jazz is so much better than porter why is jazz losing on average a pilot a day? From what I’ve heard that stat isn’t even including AC attrition.

I can’t defend the starting pay at Jazz, no question it’s abysmal but I can defend disinformation about the company. As for you, I was curious so I looked back at your posts, you barely left perimeter a year ago, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight with me, you haven’t lived the industry long enough to understand it.
Go ahead and compare every single aircraft at AC with my super easy method, hourly wage divided by seats in the back, it is our cost per hour. I did it years ago and in most cases our(Jazz) cost per seat was on par or even slightly above, a few were higher at AC but very close overall. Pretty hard to demand or even justify big increases when the mother ship who pays our bills is paying their pilots essentially the same.

Oh ok thanks boomer, I’m so happy all your years of experience at jazz have allowed you to come up with this super easy formula! I saw you debating that figure with porters using that formula and somehow trying to justify jazz’s when compared? Even though porters Y1 E2 skipper salary is more than a topped out jazz skipper?? Not sure how expensive housing was when you were younger, but when determining your budget, there’s this thing called an annual salary that you need to look at, not your formula. If the older generation is using logic like yours when debating issues it’s no wonder everyone my age will never own a home LOL

It’s funny because I guarantee us “kids” who haven’t been in the industry for over a decade, that you seem so eager to discredit based off your ageist remark, could negotiate better WAWCON then your peers have

Will my opinion be valid before or after your 2035 contract expires??

By then, yes but I won’t care then either.
Let me dumb this down a bit for you, your ability to earn is directly related to your ability to generate, AC is not going to charge more to fly in the back of an RJ because we are making more per seat than everyone else, it’s the simplest math there is and the fact you don’t see that speaks volumes about your intelligence.
First of all, Porter could have made the 12 year top 400/hr, what difference what that make do they have any pilots at that level, Jazz does, many at the top so that’s a real expense not some imaginary cost.
Second, compare the apples to apples, Jazz flys the same airplanes as Porter, why are we not looking at the Q400, because we are flying jets too, same size aircraft is what we are comparing. Your ability to generate revenue is directly related to your earning, bottom line, no contest, absolutely without a doubt, any questions….

[cdnavater]

I can’t defend the starting pay at Jazz, no question it’s abysmal but I can defend disinformation about the company. As for you, I was curious so I looked back at your posts, you barely left perimeter a year ago, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight with me, you haven’t lived the industry long enough to understand it.
Go ahead and compare every single aircraft at AC with my super easy method, hourly wage divided by seats in the back, it is our cost per hour. I did it years ago and in most cases our(Jazz) cost per seat was on par or even slightly above, a few were higher at AC but very close overall. Pretty hard to demand or even justify big increases when the mother ship who pays our bills is paying their pilots essentially the same.

Oh ok thanks boomer, I’m so happy all your years of experience at jazz have allowed you to come up with this super easy formula! I saw you debating that figure with porters using that formula and somehow trying to justify jazz’s when compared? Even though porters Y1 E2 skipper salary is more than a topped out jazz skipper?? Not sure how expensive housing was when you were younger, but when determining your budget, there’s this thing called an annual salary that you need to look at, not your formula. If the older generation is using logic like yours when debating issues it’s no wonder everyone my age will never own a home LOL

It’s funny because I guarantee us “kids” who haven’t been in the industry for over a decade, that you seem so eager to discredit based off your ageist remark, could negotiate better WAWCON then your peers have

Will my opinion be valid before or after your 2035 contract expires??

By then, yes but I won’t care then either.
Let me dumb this down a bit for you, your ability to earn is directly related to your ability to generate, AC is not going to charge more to fly in the back of an RJ because we are making more per seat than everyone else, it’s the simplest math there is and the fact you don’t see that speaks volumes about your intelligence.
First of all, Porter could have made the 12 year top 400/hr, what difference what that make do they have any pilots at that level, Jazz does, many at the top so that’s a real expense not some imaginary cost.
Second, compare the apples to apples, Jazz flys the same airplanes as Porter, why are we not looking at the Q400, because we are flying jets too, same size aircraft is what we are comparing. Your ability to generate revenue is directly related to your earning, bottom line, no contest, absolutely without a doubt, any questions….

By the way or btw for you youngsters, my 20 years at Jazz was predated by several management positions at various companies, some start ups, some established over 15 years but I certainly have a grasp on the revenue to earnings relationship!

[braaap Braap]

Porter pilots, some of you are ex Jazz and very vocal about our pay, so here is a breakdown of cost per available seat, not seat mile, just how many seats versus hourly wage.
Porter E2 Top scale

Captain 227.96/132= 1.726
FO 135.71/132=1.028
Jazz top scale(stripped out the 200s which is 10% of the total seats)
Captain 143.50/76= 1.888
FO 89.66/76= 1.179
Porter bottom E2
160.63/132= 1.216
65.10/132= .493
Jazz bottom
96.68/76= 1.272
51.74/76= .68

Porter Q400
Top
124.30/76= 1.635
76.14/76= 1.001
Bottom
91.57/76= 1.204
50.01/76= .658

In all cases Jazz pilots are paid more per seat, obviously stage length will drive those costs down but bare bones, more per seat at Jazz and I excluded the 200s because there are likely leaving sooner than later so not a huge factor in the status pay formula.
You are worth more, maybe instead of comparing to Jazz, have a look at AC 220s, how do you compare to them?

Look at your own post dude.

Jazz captain top scale is less than porter year 1 e2 captain pay. You make more per seat… good job. I make more than you and you’re a trainer with 20 years service.

Benchmarking was done using the 220s in the formula. Cut the crap and go to bed, call the MEC and complain. I did, nothing happened, so I went to porter. No, I won’t make as much as a AC 220 captain, and especially their pension, but I ran the numbers, my break even point is too far down the line.

Who cares if you have 78 seats versus 132. It’s mostly the same work. We aren’t talking king air to jet comparison.

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Man this is the dumbest thing I've seen on here in a while.

Using your dumb analysis:

AC 737 @ 169 seats

1 year CA: $202.89/169 = 1.200
12 year CA: $225.87/169 = 1.337
1 year FO: $63.75/169 = 0.377
12 year FO: $0.892/169 = 0.892

WOW thankyou for enlightening us!!! Looks like the entire industry has been going the wrong direction and we need to start flocking to Jazz. Actually better yet, I'm going to Keewatin can't wait to divide their hourly by 9!


I know you s*** on Tbay all the time but I'd take his posting over yours any day of the week.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Dude I’ve never seen someone drink the stale koolaid at jazz for so long on here you worried that both AC and porter are killing off jazz or something? Seems like you’re fighting for your long tenured career there with the way you’re posting in the porter forums lol

Porter is by no means perfect, even by Canadian airline standards which is already pathetically low, but stop trying to pump the jazz tires when every single FO I know there is living with their parents or 5 roommates just to make ends somewhat meet. I’m sure someone’s already asked, but if jazz is so much better than porter why is jazz losing on average a pilot a day? From what I’ve heard that stat isn’t even including AC attrition.

I can’t defend the starting pay at Jazz, no question it’s abysmal but I can defend disinformation about the company. As for you, I was curious so I looked back at your posts, you barely left perimeter a year ago, your opinion doesn’t carry much weight with me, you haven’t lived the industry long enough to understand it.
Go ahead and compare every single aircraft at AC with my super easy method, hourly wage divided by seats in the back, it is our cost per hour. I did it years ago and in most cases our(Jazz) cost per seat was on par or even slightly above, a few were higher at AC but very close overall. Pretty hard to demand or even justify big increases when the mother ship who pays our bills is paying their pilots essentially the same.

Lol. You are so wrong on so many levels. If you think I left perimeter last year, you better tuck your tail in. I’ve had an almost equally long aviation career working for multiple airlines through various economic crises. Stop thinking you are a god.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Look at your own post dude.

Jazz captain top scale is less than porter year 1 e2 captain pay. You make more per seat… good job. I make more than you and you’re a trainer with 20 years service.

Benchmarking was done using the 220s in the formula. Cut the crap and go to bed, call the MEC and complain. I did, nothing happened, so I went to porter. No, I won’t make as much as a AC 220 captain, and especially their pension, but I ran the numbers, my break even point is too far down the line.

Who cares if you have 78 seats versus 132. It’s mostly the same work. We aren’t talking king air to jet comparison.

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Man this is the dumbest thing I've seen on here in a while.

Using your dumb analysis:

AC 737 @ 169 seats

1 year CA: $202.89/169 = 1.200
12 year CA: $225.87/169 = 1.337
1 year FO: $63.75/169 = 0.377
12 year FO: $0.892/169 = 0.892

WOW thankyou for enlightening us!!! Looks like the entire industry has been going the wrong direction and we need to start flocking to Jazz. Actually better yet, I'm going to Keewatin can't wait to divide their hourly by 9!


I know you s*** on Tbay all the time but I'd take his posting over yours any day of the week.

Lol. Amazing! Thanks braap for running the numbers!!

[cdnavater]

Look at your own post dude.

Jazz captain top scale is less than porter year 1 e2 captain pay. You make more per seat… good job. I make more than you and you’re a trainer with 20 years service.

Benchmarking was done using the 220s in the formula. Cut the crap and go to bed, call the MEC and complain. I did, nothing happened, so I went to porter. No, I won’t make as much as a AC 220 captain, and especially their pension, but I ran the numbers, my break even point is too far down the line.

Who cares if you have 78 seats versus 132. It’s mostly the same work. We aren’t talking king air to jet comparison.

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Man this is the dumbest thing I've seen on here in a while.

Using your dumb analysis:

AC 737 @ 169 seats

1 year CA: $202.89/169 = 1.200
12 year CA: $225.87/169 = 1.337
1 year FO: $63.75/169 = 0.377
12 year FO: $0.892/169 = 0.892

WOW thankyou for enlightening us!!! Looks like the entire industry has been going the wrong direction and we need to start flocking to Jazz. Actually better yet, I'm going to Keewatin can't wait to divide their hourly by 9!


I know you s*** on Tbay all the time but I'd take his posting over yours any day of the week.

Hate to disappoint you, if you come to Jazz you will earn less, you see we have less seats and believe me if Keewatin could they would.
Also, since we’re being honest with each other your, fucking screen name annoys me and anything you type comes across as stupid and immature, thanks for not disappointing me. 12 year old girls like emojis, just saying!

[cdnavater]

Yes, great business sense, you nearly twice the amount of seats but you’re paid less, I make no bones about it, I chose to be a regional pilot and the lower pay that comes with it, pretty pathetic the best you can respond with is, I make more than you, nahnahnahnahnahnah.
How about we compare same work, not mostly, the Q400 at Porter is quite a bit less, but you don’t care about them do you, you got yours, self entitled prick
I’m sure glad Porter has you, I’m guessing AC didn’t want you, can’t say I blame them!

Man this is the dumbest thing I've seen on here in a while.

Using your dumb analysis:

AC 737 @ 169 seats

1 year CA: $202.89/169 = 1.200
12 year CA: $225.87/169 = 1.337
1 year FO: $63.75/169 = 0.377
12 year FO: $0.892/169 = 0.892

WOW thankyou for enlightening us!!! Looks like the entire industry has been going the wrong direction and we need to start flocking to Jazz. Actually better yet, I'm going to Keewatin can't wait to divide their hourly by 9!


I know you s*** on Tbay all the time but I'd take his posting over yours any day of the week.

Lol. Amazing! Thanks braap for running the numbers!!

What, he literally proved my point, it’s really simple, seats equal revenue, duh!
If they can’t achieve more per seat, how in the world do you expect Jazz too, idiots!

[8895]

By then, yes but I won’t care then either.
Let me dumb this down a bit for you, your ability to earn is directly related to your ability to generate, AC is not going to charge more to fly in the back of an RJ because we are making more per seat than everyone else, it’s the simplest math there is and the fact you don’t see that speaks volumes about your intelligence.
First of all, Porter could have made the 12 year top 400/hr, what difference what that make do they have any pilots at that level, Jazz does, many at the top so that’s a real expense not some imaginary cost.
Second, compare the apples to apples, Jazz flys the same airplanes as Porter, why are we not looking at the Q400, because we are flying jets too, same size aircraft is what we are comparing. Your ability to generate revenue is directly related to your earning, bottom line, no contest, absolutely without a doubt, any questions….
[/quote]

Questioning my intelligence while you’re the ex management shill trying to justify their illogical opinions by sharing an irrelevant formula? I’d do your next medical over the phone boomer

There’s no need to explain cost models, RASM and CASM, etc, unlike your less educated generation, I get it. What I CAN’T understand is you trying to justify staying at jazz while the salary on the E2 is clearly better, bottom line, no contest, absolutely without a doubt.

Also if you were involved in so many startups that would explain a lot lol because if you’re a now lifer at jazz that means every single startup you touched failed, and now you’re too old to move onto the mothership, so instead of accepting the choices you made you now feel the need to shill for an airline that is crumbling on anonymous online forums and feed into your superiority complex by pretending you know what your talking about, when in reality that complex is a defence mechanism for the sever feeling of inadequacy you’re feeling in your career.

Long story short, jazz pays terribly, and your useless formula doesn’t matter, only salary does. Any questions?

[cdnavater]

By then, yes but I won’t care then either.
Let me dumb this down a bit for you, your ability to earn is directly related to your ability to generate, AC is not going to charge more to fly in the back of an RJ because we are making more per seat than everyone else, it’s the simplest math there is and the fact you don’t see that speaks volumes about your intelligence.
First of all, Porter could have made the 12 year top 400/hr, what difference what that make do they have any pilots at that level, Jazz does, many at the top so that’s a real expense not some imaginary cost.
Second, compare the apples to apples, Jazz flys the same airplanes as Porter, why are we not looking at the Q400, because we are flying jets too, same size aircraft is what we are comparing. Your ability to generate revenue is directly related to your earning, bottom line, no contest, absolutely without a doubt, any questions….

Questioning my intelligence while you’re the ex management shill trying to justify their illogical opinions by sharing an irrelevant formula? I’d do your next medical over the phone boomer

There’s no need to explain cost models, RASM and CASM, etc, unlike your less educated generation, I get it. What I CAN’T understand is you trying to justify staying at jazz while the salary on the E2 is clearly better, bottom line, no contest, absolutely without a doubt.

Also if you were involved in so many startups that would explain a lot lol because if you’re a now lifer at jazz that means every single startup you touched failed, and now you’re too old to move onto the mothership, so instead of accepting the choices you made you now feel the need to shill for an airline that is crumbling on anonymous online forums and feed into your superiority complex by pretending you know what your talking about, when in reality that complex is a defence mechanism for the sever feeling of inadequacy you’re feeling in your career.

Long story short, jazz pays terribly, and your useless formula doesn’t matter, only salary does. Any questions?
[/quote]

Thanks for the chuckle chuklehead, I’m not shilling for anything, I’m on record saying don’t come here.
I’m at Jazz by choice, I turned down the interview for AC back in 07, and again in 2016, I guess I’ll never know but I didn’t care because I was and am happy with my decision, not many people in this country will get the kind of pension I’m looking at, including Porter pilots.
I never said I was an owner, I was a hired management, Ops and CP for two, one is still around the other never got of the ground, I did my part, I got them an AOC but financing was not my part, anywho, you do you muffin!
Only a simpleton looks at the picture one way, look at the big picture, the ability to generate revenue is less with less seats. So, CASM and every other metric is higher with less seats.
You realize if your cost per seat mile is more, they will look for ways to replace you with someone who cost less, you see that right?

[cdnavater]

Definitely more responsibility. More lives in your hands.

I disagree. Having 1 life in your hands should bring out the same amount of professionalism as flying 100 lives around. If I chose to fly a caravan in northern Canada, does that mean I can be less responsible?……..no

While I do agree that passenger counts do factor in slightly into pay scales, I think the 737s,320s,E2s,220s are too close to differentiate on that scale.

100% the professionalism should be there no matter what. How much you get paid shouldn't dictate how much professionalism you exhibit. That's not what the increased pay is for. It's extra compensation for the added responsibility of stuff like: Better chance of a medical emergency, unruly, some sort of other passenger issue, managing a larger crew. And if shit hits the fan, The 777 captain is ultimately responsible for a bigger evacuation than the Northern Caravan guy.

Hmm, I’ll just leave this here so you two idiots can respond

[braaap Braap]

What, he literally proved my point, it’s really simple, seats equal revenue, duh!
If they can’t achieve more per seat, how in the world do you expect Jazz too, idiots!

So what exactly is your point? On one hand you're trying to make it sound like we should be aspiring to Jazz (meanwhile everyone else is taking more to the bank) and on the other hand, you're saying the industry can't achieve more because cost vs revenue is maxed at ~$1.50/seat. This whole analysis is flawed and a waste of energy. The metric certainly has a place in accounting as a way of tracking costs, but salaries are driven by supply and demand and fortunately that dynamic is shifting. If the cost/seat rises in order to fill front seats then so will ticket prices. That's the least of our concerns and way outside of our control. All we can do is go where we're most valued and I think Porter is demonstrating they're willing to get their elbows out and compete for the dwindling pilot supply.


Why did you even bring this up here anyway?! Are you trying to compensate for something? You sit in your glass house flinging stones in every direction. Working with you must be a barrel of fun. When I grow up I want to be mature just like you!

Hmm, I’ll just leave this here so you two idiots can respond

Ahh that explains it you're just one toxic crusty ass mfer

[cdnavater]

What, he literally proved my point, it’s really simple, seats equal revenue, duh!
If they can’t achieve more per seat, how in the world do you expect Jazz too, idiots!

So what exactly is your point? On one hand you're trying to make it sound like we should be aspiring to Jazz (meanwhile everyone else is taking more to the bank) and on the other hand, you're saying the industry can't achieve more because cost vs revenue is maxed at ~$1.50/seat. This whole analysis is flawed and a waste of energy. The metric certainly has a place in accounting as a way of tracking costs, but salaries are driven by supply and demand and fortunately that dynamic is shifting. If the cost/seat rises in order to fill front seats then so will ticket prices. That's the least of our concerns and way outside of our control. All we can do is go where we're most valued and I think Porter is demonstrating they're willing to get their elbows out and compete for the dwindling pilot supply.


Why did you even bring this up here anyway?! Are you trying to compensate for something? You sit in your glass house flinging stones in every direction. Working with you must be a barrel of fun. When I grow up I want to be mature just like you!

Hmm, I’ll just leave this here so you two idiots can respond

Ahh that explains it you're just one toxic crusty ass mfer

No, you jumped in mid conversation without a full understanding, I don’t give flying monkeys fart but don’t come on here and slag Jazz when you’re working for a company that doesn’t value you anymore than Jazz did.
I never said there was a maximum, I said and have been saying, our cost cannot exceed mainline without driving more work there, simple.
Supply demand only place a role if they decide staffing Jazz is more beneficial than transferring work to a lower CASM, ie the 220.
You do t have to look far, look at the relationship of the Q400 vs E2 at Porter, it’s about who can generate more revenue, there is no other way to look at that wage scale, if they valued you the same then you would have status pay, tell me I’m wrong!
Btw, I’m a blast to work with, just ask me!

[CaptDukeNukem]

Man this is the dumbest thing I've seen on here in a while.

Using your dumb analysis:

AC 737 @ 169 seats

1 year CA: $202.89/169 = 1.200
12 year CA: $225.87/169 = 1.337
1 year FO: $63.75/169 = 0.377
12 year FO: $0.892/169 = 0.892

WOW thankyou for enlightening us!!! Looks like the entire industry has been going the wrong direction and we need to start flocking to Jazz. Actually better yet, I'm going to Keewatin can't wait to divide their hourly by 9!


I know you s*** on Tbay all the time but I'd take his posting over yours any day of the week.

Lol. Amazing! Thanks braap for running the numbers!!

What, he literally proved my point, it’s really simple, seats equal revenue, duh!
If they can’t achieve more per seat, how in the world do you expect Jazz too, idiots!

I think he was quoting 703 operators paying up to $170k a year for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off….. idiot!!

[CaptDukeNukem]

I disagree. Having 1 life in your hands should bring out the same amount of professionalism as flying 100 lives around. If I chose to fly a caravan in northern Canada, does that mean I can be less responsible?……..no

While I do agree that passenger counts do factor in slightly into pay scales, I think the 737s,320s,E2s,220s are too close to differentiate on that scale.

100% the professionalism should be there no matter what. How much you get paid shouldn't dictate how much professionalism you exhibit. That's not what the increased pay is for. It's extra compensation for the added responsibility of stuff like: Better chance of a medical emergency, unruly, some sort of other passenger issue, managing a larger crew. And if shit hits the fan, The 777 captain is ultimately responsible for a bigger evacuation than the Northern Caravan guy.

Hmm, I’ll just leave this here so you two idiots can respond

So now that you’re butt hurt… you’re trying to pin us against each other? Lol. Your cost per seat Mile calculation is crap. Why don’t you break it down by weight calculation. Use the “stone” math while you’re at it.

Braap brought up some good points in that post, none of which reinforce your position. I respect the man. You however, are a dinosaur. Good day sir

[goleafsgo]

How’s the schedule been on the e2 so far? Are there many multi day pairings or is it a lot of single day turns? Also what’s the take home pay like?

[cdnavater]

I don’t know why you have a problem with it, it’s just how it works, btw I’m pretty sure AC formula pay includes weight, maybe not the stone math though.
https://airspeedjunkie.com/blogs/blog/a ... ilots-make
Lesson #3 Airline pilot pay scales change after year one

Year one is the magic number, after year one you get off probation and you move up to second year pay. Airline pilot pay is based on aircraft seating. Basically the more seats, the more per hour you make. This is the same as aircraft type in the bullets below.

Example: Second year pay, major airline

737-700 = $124/hour
757-200 = $139/hour
767-300 = $147/hour

[CaptDukeNukem]

How’s the schedule been on the e2 so far? Are there many multi day pairings or is it a lot of single day turns? Also what’s the take home pay like?

Most of the pairings are multi day. Often single legs with a decent layover.
Some single days. Some splits or continuous duty, or stand ups (whatever you call them).
Left seat take home pay on 80 MMG ~$4000
Right seat take home per pay around ~$1800.

[rudder]

How’s the schedule been on the e2 so far? Are there many multi day pairings or is it a lot of single day turns? Also what’s the take home pay like?

Most of the pairings are multi day. Often single legs with a decent layover.
Some single days. Some splits or continuous duty, or stand ups (whatever you call them).
Left seat take home pay on 80 MMG ~$4000
Right seat take home per pay around ~$1800.

I assume you mean these numbers x 2 for net monthly take home pay?