Negotiations

[cdnavater]

This is starting to look like a conversation about how to keep the horse in the barn…….AFTER the horse left the barn.


Chairman's Message - March 2023 Update

Fellow Pilots,

In my February update I advised of a four-party discussion that took place between Air Canada, Jazz, ACPA and the JAZ MEC. Again, the purpose of that meeting was a shared concern by ACPA and the JAZ MEC regarding Air Canada’s ability to increase revenue and grow market share in our ever-evolving industry.

The problems which precipitated that meeting continue to escalate as Jazz is experiencing a high level of Pilot attrition. This is a very different situation from when we were bargaining last fall, when Pilot attrition did not yet play a major role in the Company’s motivations. This has prompted the Company to reach out and reconvene discussions with us directly – outside and in addition to the four-party initiative.

In March we held two meetings with Jazz senior executives. These discussions were conceptually focused on being able to generate more block hours for Air Canada. Pilot compensation is a major component of those discussions. We have further meetings planned next week.

Violations related to Pilot Movement to Air Canada continues to be a serious concern. We recently learned that Air Canada was reducing Jazz hiring from 40 Pilots per month to 20. As we know, the 60% requirement is annual, and a reduction of monthly hiring is not itself a violation. However, this decision amplifies harm as the 2022 deficit remains unresolved while additional OTS hiring continues - adding insult to injury. Additionally, if 2022 is any indication, we question that Air Canada will respect their obligations by the end of 2023.

Until now the MEC’s preference has been to achieve a negotiated resolution. This remains the case, however, with Air Canada’s recent decision to further reduce Jazz Pilot hiring, the MEC met last week and has decided to concurrently invoke our Collective Agreement grievance/arbitration process. There will be a further communication from the MEC on this topic shortly.

Finally, while we are reentering a two-party negotiation with our Company, and hope to make changes to our Collective Agreement, I still believe that a four-party initiative is required to address some of our mutual goals. In the end, it is in our best interest for Air Canada to be a strong and viable enterprise – something we remain fully committed to.

In solidarity,

Claude

Could be beneficial for the horses that are still in the barn though, half full kind of guy, gimme more hay!

[rudder]

This is starting to look like a conversation about how to keep the horse in the barn…….AFTER the horse left the barn.


Chairman's Message - March 2023 Update

Fellow Pilots,

In my February update I advised of a four-party discussion that took place between Air Canada, Jazz, ACPA and the JAZ MEC. Again, the purpose of that meeting was a shared concern by ACPA and the JAZ MEC regarding Air Canada’s ability to increase revenue and grow market share in our ever-evolving industry.

The problems which precipitated that meeting continue to escalate as Jazz is experiencing a high level of Pilot attrition. This is a very different situation from when we were bargaining last fall, when Pilot attrition did not yet play a major role in the Company’s motivations. This has prompted the Company to reach out and reconvene discussions with us directly – outside and in addition to the four-party initiative.

In March we held two meetings with Jazz senior executives. These discussions were conceptually focused on being able to generate more block hours for Air Canada. Pilot compensation is a major component of those discussions. We have further meetings planned next week.

Violations related to Pilot Movement to Air Canada continues to be a serious concern. We recently learned that Air Canada was reducing Jazz hiring from 40 Pilots per month to 20. As we know, the 60% requirement is annual, and a reduction of monthly hiring is not itself a violation. However, this decision amplifies harm as the 2022 deficit remains unresolved while additional OTS hiring continues - adding insult to injury. Additionally, if 2022 is any indication, we question that Air Canada will respect their obligations by the end of 2023.

Until now the MEC’s preference has been to achieve a negotiated resolution. This remains the case, however, with Air Canada’s recent decision to further reduce Jazz Pilot hiring, the MEC met last week and has decided to concurrently invoke our Collective Agreement grievance/arbitration process. There will be a further communication from the MEC on this topic shortly.

Finally, while we are reentering a two-party negotiation with our Company, and hope to make changes to our Collective Agreement, I still believe that a four-party initiative is required to address some of our mutual goals. In the end, it is in our best interest for Air Canada to be a strong and viable enterprise – something we remain fully committed to.

In solidarity,

Claude

Could be beneficial for the horses that are still in the barn though, half full kind of guy, gimme more hay!

Year 1-5 FO rates need to increase by a minimum of 40%.

Year 1-5 CA rates need to increase by a minimum of 20-25%.

All other pilot pay rates need to increase by a minimum of 15-20%.

And training pilot overrides need to increase by at least 33%.

I won’t hold my breath. That would still leave a top scale Jazz CA at around the same rate as a a Porter year 1 E2 CA. So why would an E jet pilot stay at Jazz? That is the market Jazz is competing in right now for pilot labour.

My guess is it will be about working more to get paid more. Double time for overtime, etc. That is not a raise. And that won’t stem Pilot attrition.

[truedude]

This is starting to look like a conversation about how to keep the horse in the barn…….AFTER the horse left the barn.


Chairman's Message - March 2023 Update

Fellow Pilots,

In my February update I advised of a four-party discussion that took place between Air Canada, Jazz, ACPA and the JAZ MEC. Again, the purpose of that meeting was a shared concern by ACPA and the JAZ MEC regarding Air Canada’s ability to increase revenue and grow market share in our ever-evolving industry.

The problems which precipitated that meeting continue to escalate as Jazz is experiencing a high level of Pilot attrition. This is a very different situation from when we were bargaining last fall, when Pilot attrition did not yet play a major role in the Company’s motivations. This has prompted the Company to reach out and reconvene discussions with us directly – outside and in addition to the four-party initiative.

In March we held two meetings with Jazz senior executives. These discussions were conceptually focused on being able to generate more block hours for Air Canada. Pilot compensation is a major component of those discussions. We have further meetings planned next week.

Violations related to Pilot Movement to Air Canada continues to be a serious concern. We recently learned that Air Canada was reducing Jazz hiring from 40 Pilots per month to 20. As we know, the 60% requirement is annual, and a reduction of monthly hiring is not itself a violation. However, this decision amplifies harm as the 2022 deficit remains unresolved while additional OTS hiring continues - adding insult to injury. Additionally, if 2022 is any indication, we question that Air Canada will respect their obligations by the end of 2023.

Until now the MEC’s preference has been to achieve a negotiated resolution. This remains the case, however, with Air Canada’s recent decision to further reduce Jazz Pilot hiring, the MEC met last week and has decided to concurrently invoke our Collective Agreement grievance/arbitration process. There will be a further communication from the MEC on this topic shortly.

Finally, while we are reentering a two-party negotiation with our Company, and hope to make changes to our Collective Agreement, I still believe that a four-party initiative is required to address some of our mutual goals. In the end, it is in our best interest for Air Canada to be a strong and viable enterprise – something we remain fully committed to.

In solidarity,

Claude

Could be beneficial for the horses that are still in the barn though, half full kind of guy, gimme more hay!

Year 1-5 FO rates need to increase by a minimum of 40%.

Year 1-5 CA rates need to increase by a minimum of 20-25%.

All other pilot pay rates need to increase by a minimum of 15-20%.

And training pilot overrides need to increase by at least 33%.

I won’t hold my breath. That would still leave a top scale Jazz CA at around the same rate as a a Porter year 1 E2 CA. So why would an E jet pilot stay at Jazz? That is the market Jazz is competing in right now for pilot labour.

My guess is it will be about working more to get paid more. Double time for overtime, etc. That is not a raise. And that won’t stem Pilot attrition.

This is still way to low.

50% across the board and 3% a year min after that.

Add in 5 day min credit, so people can actually work overtime, which is paid at double time.

And then a fat increase for everyone from training pilots to LTC pilots.

[CaptDukeNukem]

This is starting to look like a conversation about how to keep the horse in the barn…….AFTER the horse left the barn.


Chairman's Message - March 2023 Update

Fellow Pilots,

In my February update I advised of a four-party discussion that took place between Air Canada, Jazz, ACPA and the JAZ MEC. Again, the purpose of that meeting was a shared concern by ACPA and the JAZ MEC regarding Air Canada’s ability to increase revenue and grow market share in our ever-evolving industry.

The problems which precipitated that meeting continue to escalate as Jazz is experiencing a high level of Pilot attrition. This is a very different situation from when we were bargaining last fall, when Pilot attrition did not yet play a major role in the Company’s motivations. This has prompted the Company to reach out and reconvene discussions with us directly – outside and in addition to the four-party initiative.

In March we held two meetings with Jazz senior executives. These discussions were conceptually focused on being able to generate more block hours for Air Canada. Pilot compensation is a major component of those discussions. We have further meetings planned next week.

Violations related to Pilot Movement to Air Canada continues to be a serious concern. We recently learned that Air Canada was reducing Jazz hiring from 40 Pilots per month to 20. As we know, the 60% requirement is annual, and a reduction of monthly hiring is not itself a violation. However, this decision amplifies harm as the 2022 deficit remains unresolved while additional OTS hiring continues - adding insult to injury. Additionally, if 2022 is any indication, we question that Air Canada will respect their obligations by the end of 2023.

Until now the MEC’s preference has been to achieve a negotiated resolution. This remains the case, however, with Air Canada’s recent decision to further reduce Jazz Pilot hiring, the MEC met last week and has decided to concurrently invoke our Collective Agreement grievance/arbitration process. There will be a further communication from the MEC on this topic shortly.

Finally, while we are reentering a two-party negotiation with our Company, and hope to make changes to our Collective Agreement, I still believe that a four-party initiative is required to address some of our mutual goals. In the end, it is in our best interest for Air Canada to be a strong and viable enterprise – something we remain fully committed to.

In solidarity,

Claude

Could be beneficial for the horses that are still in the barn though, half full kind of guy, gimme more hay!

No hay, just carrots, on sticks and string.

[Inverted2]

Not even a carrot to dangle anymore. No flow being followed for the youngins’ and schedules/destinations/layovers are becoming shittier by the day.

[rudder]

Could be beneficial for the horses that are still in the barn though, half full kind of guy, gimme more hay!

Year 1-5 FO rates need to increase by a minimum of 40%.

Year 1-5 CA rates need to increase by a minimum of 20-25%.

All other pilot pay rates need to increase by a minimum of 15-20%.

And training pilot overrides need to increase by at least 33%.

I won’t hold my breath. That would still leave a top scale Jazz CA at around the same rate as a a Porter year 1 E2 CA. So why would an E jet pilot stay at Jazz? That is the market Jazz is competing in right now for pilot labour.

My guess is it will be about working more to get paid more. Double time for overtime, etc. That is not a raise. And that won’t stem Pilot attrition.

This is still way to low.

50% across the board and 3% a year min after that.

Add in 5 day min credit, so people can actually work overtime, which is paid at double time.

And then a fat increase for everyone from training pilots to LTC pilots.

Items within Jazz control:

FO

1. 67
2. 77
3. 80
4. 83
5. 87
6. 90
7. 93
8. 97
9. 100
10. 103


CA

1. 110
2. 115
3. 120
4. 125
5. 130
6. 135
7. 140
8. 145
9. 150
10. 155
11. 160
12. 165

Training dept override 15%. LTC/LCP override $36/hr.

Straight time to 85. Time and a half 85-95. Double time over 95. All WDO double time.

Max 16 work days per bid month, including RSV. Exception for initial type course.

Min daily credit 5. No 2 day pairing less than 10. No 3 day less than 15. No 4 day less than 20.

Pilot pays STD premium only (to preserve tax free status). STD duration day 31-180. LTD day 181+. No LTD benefit payable beyond 6 years. Employer pays all other benefit premiums.

DC matching starts at 6%. Increases 1% every 2 years of service until employee contributions reaches 8%. Thereafter employer match increases 1% every year until a maximum of 10% is reached. Therefore 8/10 match reached at year 7.


Items outside Jazz control (requiring AC and/or ACPA concurrence):

CPA min fleet 80 fins effective 2025 (1 year early).

Minimum block hours reflecting full utilization of fleet.

50% AC flow with reserved seniority numbers coinciding with eligible PIT course if Jazz requires hold back for operational integrity. No Jazz Pilot can flow with less than 24 months of service. Maximum holdback duration is the aforementioned 24 month service time at Jazz or 12 months from eligible PIT course.


The competition facing Jazz for pilot labour is WestJet, Transat, Porter, Sunwing, Flair, Morningstar, CargoJet, Lynx, and others. An airline cannot be staffed exclusively with ab initio new-hire candidates. Experience has value. Recognize that and acknowledge it in your WAWCON.

Working together, AC and Jazz and ALPA/ACPA are capable of offering a career package that cannot be met by any other carrier. They just have to choose to do so.

[Kosiw]

Rudder, in your opinion, what is AC/Jazz management's end goal by holding out on wage increases to attract/keep pilot's ?

Is the current bleeding of staff, a management plan to purposely "shrink" Jazz down to the 80 tails earlier and repatriate more flying to AC, because their inaction to fixing the pay issue is rather puzzling.

[kiaszceski]

The likelihood of having such a dramatic increase in wawcon is close to none...
I wish it were true though!
That said, they also need a way to attract people to the left seat, especially those having the hours but are unwilling to pay for the commute and the hotel before a pairing.

Good luck to the NC!

[truedude]

Rudder, in your opinion, what is AC/Jazz management's end goal by holding out on wage increases to attract/keep pilot's ?

Is the current bleeding of staff, a management plan to purposely "shrink" Jazz down to the 80 tails earlier and repatriate more flying to AC, because their inaction to fixing the pay issue is rather puzzling.

They don't have a choice! Anything less will be voted down, and won't do anything to attract people.

We need to stop thinking small and simply refuse to accept anything but a massive rework of our working conditions. Reject anything else and let then shrink Jazz to zero.

There is absolutely no reason our pay scale can't cap out around 200 an hour. Zero!

[rudder]

The likelihood of having such a dramatic increase in wawcon is close to none...
I wish it were true though!
That said, they also need a way to attract people to the left seat, especially those having the hours but are unwilling to pay for the commute and the hotel before a pairing.

Good luck to the NC!

Wishful thinking? 100% yes.

But there is an existential problem at Jazz in both retaining and attracting qualified pilots. Waiting out the problem no longer seems to be a realistic strategy. Shrinking the airline is also not going to be an effective response unless the goal is ultimately to shrink it by 50% or more.

Ergo, the parties continue to meet to try to come up with a viable solution.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Year 1-5 FO rates need to increase by a minimum of 40%.

Year 1-5 CA rates need to increase by a minimum of 20-25%.

All other pilot pay rates need to increase by a minimum of 15-20%.

And training pilot overrides need to increase by at least 33%.

I won’t hold my breath. That would still leave a top scale Jazz CA at around the same rate as a a Porter year 1 E2 CA. So why would an E jet pilot stay at Jazz? That is the market Jazz is competing in right now for pilot labour.

My guess is it will be about working more to get paid more. Double time for overtime, etc. That is not a raise. And that won’t stem Pilot attrition.

This is still way to low.

50% across the board and 3% a year min after that.

Add in 5 day min credit, so people can actually work overtime, which is paid at double time.

And then a fat increase for everyone from training pilots to LTC pilots.

Items within Jazz control:

FO

1. 67
2. 77
3. 80
4. 83
5. 87
6. 90
7. 93
8. 97
9. 100
10. 103


CA

1. 110
2. 115
3. 120
4. 125
5. 130
6. 135
7. 140
8. 145
9. 150
10. 155
11. 160
12. 165

Training dept override 15%. LTC/LCP override $36/hr.

Straight time to 85. Time and a half 85-95. Double time over 95. All WDO double time.

Max 16 work days per bid month, including RSV. Exception for initial type course.

Min daily credit 5. No 2 day pairing less than 10. No 3 day less than 15. No 4 day less than 20.

Pilot pays STD premium only (to preserve tax free status). STD duration day 31-180. LTD day 181+. No LTD benefit payable beyond 6 years. Employer pays all other benefit premiums.

DC matching starts at 6%. Increases 1% every 2 years of service until employee contributions reaches 8%. Thereafter employer match increases 1% every year until a maximum of 10% is reached. Therefore 8/10 match reached at year 7.


Items outside Jazz control (requiring AC and/or ACPA concurrence):

CPA min fleet 80 fins effective 2025 (1 year early).

Minimum block hours reflecting full utilization of fleet.

50% AC flow with reserved seniority numbers coinciding with eligible PIT course if Jazz requires hold back for operational integrity. No Jazz Pilot can flow with less than 24 months of service. Maximum holdback duration is the aforementioned 24 month service time at Jazz or 12 months from eligible PIT course.


The competition facing Jazz for pilot labour is WestJet, Transat, Porter, Sunwing, Flair, Morningstar, CargoJet, Lynx, and others. An airline cannot be staffed exclusively with ab initio new-hire candidates. Experience has value. Recognize that and acknowledge it in your WAWCON.

Working together, AC and Jazz and ALPA/ACPA are capable of offering a career package that cannot be met by any other carrier. They just have to choose to do so.

I like it but this is ambitious.

[rudder]

Rudder, in your opinion, what is AC/Jazz management's end goal by holding out on wage increases to attract/keep pilot's ?

Is the current bleeding of staff, a management plan to purposely "shrink" Jazz down to the 80 tails earlier and repatriate more flying to AC, because their inaction to fixing the pay issue is rather puzzling.

Jazz is getting smaller. It is happening now and it will happen sooner rather than later.

Much Express flying is and will continue to be replaced by both mainline (A220/Rouge) and by UA via the AC/UA alliance.

Under current WAWCON and considering professional alternatives, retaining and attracting qualified pilots to Jazz will continue to be a negative trend. Therefore, if no action taken then Jazz will have to advise AC that meeting CPA obligations may not be possible (already referenced in the AC 2022 MD&A).

So either Jazz shrinks rapidly with a fleet plan and block hour commitment based on <1000 pilots, or it improves WAWCON and career progression to sustain a pilot force of greater than 1000 pilots.

Life is about choices. Each individual Jazz pilot has choices to make. And so does the employer.

[Malfunction]

Year 1-5 FO rates need to increase by a minimum of 40%.

Year 1-5 CA rates need to increase by a minimum of 20-25%.

All other pilot pay rates need to increase by a minimum of 15-20%.

And training pilot overrides need to increase by at least 33%.

I won’t hold my breath. That would still leave a top scale Jazz CA at around the same rate as a a Porter year 1 E2 CA. So why would an E jet pilot stay at Jazz? That is the market Jazz is competing in right now for pilot labour.

My guess is it will be about working more to get paid more. Double time for overtime, etc. That is not a raise. And that won’t stem Pilot attrition.

This is still way to low.

50% across the board and 3% a year min after that.

Add in 5 day min credit, so people can actually work overtime, which is paid at double time.

And then a fat increase for everyone from training pilots to LTC pilots.

Items within Jazz control:

FO

1. 67
2. 77
3. 80
4. 83
5. 87
6. 90
7. 93
8. 97
9. 100
10. 103


CA

1. 110
2. 115
3. 120
4. 125
5. 130
6. 135
7. 140
8. 145
9. 150
10. 155
11. 160
12. 165

Training dept override 15%. LTC/LCP override $36/hr.

Straight time to 85. Time and a half 85-95. Double time over 95. All WDO double time.

Max 16 work days per bid month, including RSV. Exception for initial type course.

Min daily credit 5. No 2 day pairing less than 10. No 3 day less than 15. No 4 day less than 20.

Pilot pays STD premium only (to preserve tax free status). STD duration day 31-180. LTD day 181+. No LTD benefit payable beyond 6 years. Employer pays all other benefit premiums.

DC matching starts at 6%. Increases 1% every 2 years of service until employee contributions reaches 8%. Thereafter employer match increases 1% every year until a maximum of 10% is reached. Therefore 8/10 match reached at year 7.


Items outside Jazz control (requiring AC and/or ACPA concurrence):

CPA min fleet 80 fins effective 2025 (1 year early).

Minimum block hours reflecting full utilization of fleet.

50% AC flow with reserved seniority numbers coinciding with eligible PIT course if Jazz requires hold back for operational integrity. No Jazz Pilot can flow with less than 24 months of service. Maximum holdback duration is the aforementioned 24 month service time at Jazz or 12 months from eligible PIT course.


The competition facing Jazz for pilot labour is WestJet, Transat, Porter, Sunwing, Flair, Morningstar, CargoJet, Lynx, and others. An airline cannot be staffed exclusively with ab initio new-hire candidates. Experience has value. Recognize that and acknowledge it in your WAWCON.

Working together, AC and Jazz and ALPA/ACPA are capable of offering a career package that cannot be met by any other carrier. They just have to choose to do so.

Can someone please forward this to the union.

I would like for this to become reality.

[Malfunction]

If Claude f@%KS this up I vote for his immediate retirment and to be replaced with Rudder

[kiaszceski]

This is still way to low.

50% across the board and 3% a year min after that.

Add in 5 day min credit, so people can actually work overtime, which is paid at double time.

And then a fat increase for everyone from training pilots to LTC pilots.

Items within Jazz control:

FO

1. 67
2. 77
3. 80
4. 83
5. 87
6. 90
7. 93
8. 97
9. 100
10. 103


CA

1. 110
2. 115
3. 120
4. 125
5. 130
6. 135
7. 140
8. 145
9. 150
10. 155
11. 160
12. 165

Training dept override 15%. LTC/LCP override $36/hr.

Straight time to 85. Time and a half 85-95. Double time over 95. All WDO double time.

Max 16 work days per bid month, including RSV. Exception for initial type course.

Min daily credit 5. No 2 day pairing less than 10. No 3 day less than 15. No 4 day less than 20.

Pilot pays STD premium only (to preserve tax free status). STD duration day 31-180. LTD day 181+. No LTD benefit payable beyond 6 years. Employer pays all other benefit premiums.

DC matching starts at 6%. Increases 1% every 2 years of service until employee contributions reaches 8%. Thereafter employer match increases 1% every year until a maximum of 10% is reached. Therefore 8/10 match reached at year 7.


Items outside Jazz control (requiring AC and/or ACPA concurrence):

CPA min fleet 80 fins effective 2025 (1 year early).

Minimum block hours reflecting full utilization of fleet.

50% AC flow with reserved seniority numbers coinciding with eligible PIT course if Jazz requires hold back for operational integrity. No Jazz Pilot can flow with less than 24 months of service. Maximum holdback duration is the aforementioned 24 month service time at Jazz or 12 months from eligible PIT course.


The competition facing Jazz for pilot labour is WestJet, Transat, Porter, Sunwing, Flair, Morningstar, CargoJet, Lynx, and others. An airline cannot be staffed exclusively with ab initio new-hire candidates. Experience has value. Recognize that and acknowledge it in your WAWCON.

Working together, AC and Jazz and ALPA/ACPA are capable of offering a career package that cannot be met by any other carrier. They just have to choose to do so.

Can someone please forward this to the union.

I would like for this to become reality.

Send it to Claude to see what he says

[CaptDukeNukem]

If Claude f@%KS this up I vote for his immediate retirment and to be replaced with Rudder

Rudder for president!
“Make jazz great again!” Lol

[androids]

I had the option along with another colleague / peer in Q2 / Q3 2022 to go to Flair or Jazz both of us ATPL less than 2000 TT - both successfully interviewed and both received offers. He chose Flair, I chose Jazz.

He flew Flair for 6 months before AC picked him up - FO 330 YVR. 3 other Flair pilots from the same GS left at the same time to AC, 737 and 320 FO. I flew Jazz 3 for months and quit in December, 3 months I will never get back and of course needless to say missed the fast track opportunity to AC. A massive miscalculation on my part, in part due to misinformation and endless delusional optimum within these forums.

This small anecdotal story speaks massive volumes, I have followed AV Canada Jazz forums for years - everyone here is either in denial, delusional or they are company management spinning PR spam to help manage absolute circus that exists within.

I am back to 703/704 flying - 3 days on, 5 days off. $150k per year. Home every single night, no crash pad. 4 weeks (8 weeks) vacation per year. It takes basic math, basic Excel spreadsheet skills and knowledge on TFSA, RRSP contributions to realize how financially destructive even 2 or 3 years (5??) at Jazz can be on ones long term financial outcome.

[truedude]

Items within Jazz control:

FO

1. 67
2. 77
3. 80
4. 83
5. 87
6. 90
7. 93
8. 97
9. 100
10. 103


CA

1. 110
2. 115
3. 120
4. 125
5. 130
6. 135
7. 140
8. 145
9. 150
10. 155
11. 160
12. 165

Training dept override 15%. LTC/LCP override $36/hr.

Straight time to 85. Time and a half 85-95. Double time over 95. All WDO double time.

Max 16 work days per bid month, including RSV. Exception for initial type course.

Min daily credit 5. No 2 day pairing less than 10. No 3 day less than 15. No 4 day less than 20.

Pilot pays STD premium only (to preserve tax free status). STD duration day 31-180. LTD day 181+. No LTD benefit payable beyond 6 years. Employer pays all other benefit premiums.

DC matching starts at 6%. Increases 1% every 2 years of service until employee contributions reaches 8%. Thereafter employer match increases 1% every year until a maximum of 10% is reached. Therefore 8/10 match reached at year 7.


Items outside Jazz control (requiring AC and/or ACPA concurrence):

CPA min fleet 80 fins effective 2025 (1 year early).

Minimum block hours reflecting full utilization of fleet.

50% AC flow with reserved seniority numbers coinciding with eligible PIT course if Jazz requires hold back for operational integrity. No Jazz Pilot can flow with less than 24 months of service. Maximum holdback duration is the aforementioned 24 month service time at Jazz or 12 months from eligible PIT course.


The competition facing Jazz for pilot labour is WestJet, Transat, Porter, Sunwing, Flair, Morningstar, CargoJet, Lynx, and others. An airline cannot be staffed exclusively with ab initio new-hire candidates. Experience has value. Recognize that and acknowledge it in your WAWCON.

Working together, AC and Jazz and ALPA/ACPA are capable of offering a career package that cannot be met by any other carrier. They just have to choose to do so.

Can someone please forward this to the union.

I would like for this to become reality.

Send it to Claude to see what he says

I am quite confident they are asking for more than this. And we should expect them to be stubborn until we get it.

Captains need to top out around 200!!!

[CaliforniaDreamin]

The likelihood of having such a dramatic increase in wawcon is close to none...
I wish it were true though!
That said, they also need a way to attract people to the left seat, especially those having the hours but are unwilling to pay for the commute and the hotel before a pairing.

Good luck to the NC!

Wishful thinking? 100% yes.

But there is an existential problem at Jazz in both retaining and attracting qualified pilots. Waiting out the problem no longer seems to be a realistic strategy. Shrinking the airline is also not going to be an effective response unless the goal is ultimately to shrink it by 50% or more.

Ergo, the parties continue to meet to try to come up with a viable solution.

Show the pilots the money!

[North Shore]

Items within Jazz control:



CA

1. 110
2. 115
3. 120
4. 125
5. 130
6. 135
7. 140
8. 145
9. 150
10. 155
11. 160
12. 165

Training dept override 15%. LTC/LCP override $36/hr.

Straight time to 85. Time and a half 85-95. Double time over 95. All WDO double time.

Max 16 work days per bid month, including RSV. Exception for initial type course.

Min daily credit 5. No 2 day pairing less than 10. No 3 day less than 15. No 4 day less than 20.

Pilot pays STD premium only (to preserve tax free status). STD duration day 31-180. LTD day 181+. No LTD benefit payable beyond 6 years. Employer pays all other benefit premiums.

DC matching starts at 6%. Increases 1% every 2 years of service until employee contributions reaches 8%. Thereafter employer match increases 1% every year until a maximum of 10% is reached. Therefore 8/10 match reached at year 7.

As a fence-sitter (I'd apply/go to Jazz,(assuming they'd want me!) but *not* under the current WAWCON) I'd sign up for that!

[Nick678]

I had the option along with another colleague / peer in Q2 / Q3 2022 to go to Flair or Jazz both of us ATPL less than 2000 TT - both successfully interviewed and both received offers. He chose Flair, I chose Jazz.

He flew Flair for 6 months before AC picked him up - FO 330 YVR. 3 other Flair pilots from the same GS left at the same time to AC, 737 and 320 FO. I flew Jazz 3 for months and quit in December, 3 months I will never get back and of course needless to say missed the fast track opportunity to AC. A massive miscalculation on my part, in part due to misinformation and endless delusional optimum within these forums.

This small anecdotal story speaks massive volumes, I have followed AV Canada Jazz forums for years - everyone here is either in denial, delusional or they are company management spinning PR spam to help manage absolute circus that exists within.

I am back to 703/704 flying - 3 days on, 5 days off. $150k per year. Home every single night, no crash pad. 4 weeks (8 weeks) vacation per year. It takes basic math, basic Excel spreadsheet skills and knowledge on TFSA, RRSP contributions to realize how financially destructive even 2 or 3 years (5??) at Jazz can be on ones long term financial outcome.

This speaks volumes

I've stayed longer than I should at Jazz hoping things will get better and watched everyone around me go to AC. I know a 23 year old kid who did 6 months at encore and had a GS in Dec at AC.

truly demoralizing

[Inverted2]

I had the option along with another colleague / peer in Q2 / Q3 2022 to go to Flair or Jazz both of us ATPL less than 2000 TT - both successfully interviewed and both received offers. He chose Flair, I chose Jazz.

He flew Flair for 6 months before AC picked him up - FO 330 YVR. 3 other Flair pilots from the same GS left at the same time to AC, 737 and 320 FO. I flew Jazz 3 for months and quit in December, 3 months I will never get back and of course needless to say missed the fast track opportunity to AC. A massive miscalculation on my part, in part due to misinformation and endless delusional optimum within these forums.

This small anecdotal story speaks massive volumes, I have followed AV Canada Jazz forums for years - everyone here is either in denial, delusional or they are company management spinning PR spam to help manage absolute circus that exists within.

I am back to 703/704 flying - 3 days on, 5 days off. $150k per year. Home every single night, no crash pad. 4 weeks (8 weeks) vacation per year. It takes basic math, basic Excel spreadsheet skills and knowledge on TFSA, RRSP contributions to realize how financially destructive even 2 or 3 years (5??) at Jazz can be on ones long term financial outcome.

This speaks volumes

I've stayed longer than I should at Jazz hoping things will get better and watched everyone around me go to AC. I know a 23 year old kid who did 6 months at encore and had a GS in Dec at AC.

truly demoralizing

From an Air Canada management point of view. (Not me):
It’s a better strategy to hire from the competition. Taking pilots from other companies costs the other company more $$$. When they take a pilot from Jazz they have to train the Jazz pilot plus hire a Jazz pilot replacement. AC pays Jazz training costs. Plus Jazz is canceling flights like crazy due to pilot shortage. Yes it does suck for you guys but its business.

[Little Star]

Is that why there are no more initials on the E175?

[cdnavater]

I had the option along with another colleague / peer in Q2 / Q3 2022 to go to Flair or Jazz both of us ATPL less than 2000 TT - both successfully interviewed and both received offers. He chose Flair, I chose Jazz.

He flew Flair for 6 months before AC picked him up - FO 330 YVR. 3 other Flair pilots from the same GS left at the same time to AC, 737 and 320 FO. I flew Jazz 3 for months and quit in December, 3 months I will never get back and of course needless to say missed the fast track opportunity to AC. A massive miscalculation on my part, in part due to misinformation and endless delusional optimum within these forums.

This small anecdotal story speaks massive volumes, I have followed AV Canada Jazz forums for years - everyone here is either in denial, delusional or they are company management spinning PR spam to help manage absolute circus that exists within.

I am back to 703/704 flying - 3 days on, 5 days off. $150k per year. Home every single night, no crash pad. 4 weeks (8 weeks) vacation per year. It takes basic math, basic Excel spreadsheet skills and knowledge on TFSA, RRSP contributions to realize how financially destructive even 2 or 3 years (5??) at Jazz can be on ones long term financial outcome.

This speaks volumes

I've stayed longer than I should at Jazz hoping things will get better and watched everyone around me go to AC. I know a 23 year old kid who did 6 months at encore and had a GS in Dec at AC.

truly demoralizing

Nick678,
Despite what I’ve said on here, that’s truly disappointing to say the least, I’m really pissed about this flow issue. It was the huge carrot and there should be some form of reconciliation but how do you apply that. Whether it was Jazz or AC that stopped the flow, damage was done to your career and should be recognized, the one issue is until you have a positive response saying you’re successful there is no clock running for calculating how much damage.
I hope they get rid of flow going forward and the wages are what attracts pilots to Jazz with a possibility of going to AC OTS, I’m not sure how you would feel about losing the flow in exchange for more money or would you prefer to still possibly flow but a little less money.
If the flow completely disappeared, the pilots should get retroactive pay for the last 1 or so, going back to when the hiring started again.
Androids,
I respect your decision to go back but you have made an assumption that you would have been hired at AC if you went to Flair, it’s not something you can positively say would have happened, lots of good pilots get turned down.
I’m curious, did you attempt to reapply at Flair, if you explained you had an offer from Jazz first they might forgive you?
Or have you decided sleeping in your own bed is worth not flying for AC?
Also, what is it that made you quit after three months, I don’t believe the pay was ever sugar coated on AvCanada, three months and going back to 703/704 seems like there is more to this story to me.
We’re you one of the DEC guys who were unsuccessful?

[canadian_aviator_4]

Getting rid of flow would be beneficial for everyone: OTS has become easier to get to AC than going through jazz. And it would allow for more pressure to increase pay at jazz, as you mentioned cdnavater.