New pay scales

[CaptDukeNukem]

How’s the schedule been on the e2 so far? Are there many multi day pairings or is it a lot of single day turns? Also what’s the take home pay like?

Most of the pairings are multi day. Often single legs with a decent layover.
Some single days. Some splits or continuous duty, or stand ups (whatever you call them).
Left seat take home pay on 80 MMG ~$4000
Right seat take home per pay around ~$1800.

I assume you mean these numbers x 2 for net monthly take home pay?

Oops yes my mistake. Sorry. Numbers above are per cheque.

[khedrei]

I'm certainly not an expert in airline revenue but I'm pretty sure its ALOT more complicated than number of seats to determine what they can afford to pay a pilot to fly that plane.

Supply and demand of routes changes seat prices dramatically as well as how far in advance passengers book, time of the year and even day of the week. Fuel prices and pilot salary are both more stable than the former.

Thats why tickets to Florida can be cheaper than a ticket from YYZ to YAM or YYZ to YUL.

There are also some interesting videos of how some airlines (in the US i think) make more money on their points systems than flying passengers.

[cdnavater]

I'm certainly not an expert in airline revenue but I'm pretty sure its ALOT more complicated than number of seats to determine what they can afford to pay a pilot to fly that plane.

Supply and demand of routes changes seat prices dramatically as well as how far in advance passengers book, time of the year and even day of the week. Fuel prices and pilot salary are both more stable than the former.

Thats why tickets to Florida can be cheaper than a ticket from YYZ to YAM or YYZ to YUL.

There are also some interesting videos of how some airlines (in the US i think) make more money on their points systems than flying passengers.

To borrow from another poster here, “jfc” do you know what CASM is, it’s cost per available seat mile, do you know what factors into the cost of each seat, Pilot fucking wages, ffs how fucken hard is it to grasp, more available seats mean the ability to make more fucking money.
Show me any airline that pays more for the pilots of a 737 than those of a 777, any on planet earth, you won’t find one

[CaptDukeNukem]

I'm certainly not an expert in airline revenue but I'm pretty sure its ALOT more complicated than number of seats to determine what they can afford to pay a pilot to fly that plane.

Supply and demand of routes changes seat prices dramatically as well as how far in advance passengers book, time of the year and even day of the week. Fuel prices and pilot salary are both more stable than the former.

Thats why tickets to Florida can be cheaper than a ticket from YYZ to YAM or YYZ to YUL.

There are also some interesting videos of how some airlines (in the US i think) make more money on their points systems than flying passengers.

To borrow from another poster here, “jfc” do you know what CASM is, it’s cost per available seat mile, do you know what factors into the cost of each seat, Pilot fucking wages, ffs how fucken hard is it to grasp, more available seats mean the ability to make more fucking money.
Show me any airline that pays more for the pilots of a 737 than those of a 777, any on planet earth, you won’t find one

Yea. Year 1 AC FO, on a triple 7. Versus envoy regional in USA.

Oh wait, that’s a 175. You asked for 737. Sorry, don’t have those rates


If you’re talking about Canada. FO on 777 CASM is probably low. But great. Glad that you’re getting paid CASM at jazz

[Canadaflyer46]

I'm certainly not an expert in airline revenue but I'm pretty sure its ALOT more complicated than number of seats to determine what they can afford to pay a pilot to fly that plane.

Supply and demand of routes changes seat prices dramatically as well as how far in advance passengers book, time of the year and even day of the week. Fuel prices and pilot salary are both more stable than the former.

Thats why tickets to Florida can be cheaper than a ticket from YYZ to YAM or YYZ to YUL.

There are also some interesting videos of how some airlines (in the US i think) make more money on their points systems than flying passengers.

To borrow from another poster here, “jfc” do you know what CASM is, it’s cost per available seat mile, do you know what factors into the cost of each seat, Pilot fucking wages, ffs how fucken hard is it to grasp, more available seats mean the ability to make more fucking money.
Show me any airline that pays more for the pilots of a 737 than those of a 777, any on planet earth, you won’t find one

Yea. Year 1 AC FO, on a triple 7. Versus envoy regional in USA.

The purser is usually making more than a year 1 FO (flat pay) on a widebody at AC. Lowest paid widebody FOs in the world I believe.

[cdnavater]

I'm certainly not an expert in airline revenue but I'm pretty sure its ALOT more complicated than number of seats to determine what they can afford to pay a pilot to fly that plane.

Supply and demand of routes changes seat prices dramatically as well as how far in advance passengers book, time of the year and even day of the week. Fuel prices and pilot salary are both more stable than the former.

Thats why tickets to Florida can be cheaper than a ticket from YYZ to YAM or YYZ to YUL.

There are also some interesting videos of how some airlines (in the US i think) make more money on their points systems than flying passengers.

To borrow from another poster here, “jfc” do you know what CASM is, it’s cost per available seat mile, do you know what factors into the cost of each seat, Pilot fucking wages, ffs how fucken hard is it to grasp, more available seats mean the ability to make more fucking money.
Show me any airline that pays more for the pilots of a 737 than those of a 777, any on planet earth, you won’t find one

Yea. Year 1 AC FO, on a triple 7. Versus envoy regional in USA.

Oh wait, that’s a 175. You asked for 737. Sorry, don’t have those rates


If you’re talking about Canada. FO on 777 CASM is probably low. But great. Glad that you’re getting paid CASM at jazz

Jesus you sure are obtuse, apparently I need to spell it out for you, read this very slowly as you are slow minded and reading slow may help, in the same airline, s a m e a i r l i n e, show me any that pay the pilots of a smaller airplane with less seats more than the pilots of a larger airplane with more seats, umm kk

To add to that, if the airline pays you 1 dollar per seat per hour, on a two hour flight they will have to take 2 dollars per seat and give it to you, do you understand now how simple math works, if you want 4 dollars per seat per hour on a two hour flight they will need to part with 8 dollars per seat and give it to you.
Now if you fly a smaller airplane say half the seats and you also want 4 dollars per seat per hour, they will now have to part with 16 dollars per seat for the same two hour flight, see how that works. If you don’t understand now, I can’t help you, you might just be too stupid

[CaptDukeNukem]

To borrow from another poster here, “jfc” do you know what CASM is, it’s cost per available seat mile, do you know what factors into the cost of each seat, Pilot fucking wages, ffs how fucken hard is it to grasp, more available seats mean the ability to make more fucking money.
Show me any airline that pays more for the pilots of a 737 than those of a 777, any on planet earth, you won’t find one

Yea. Year 1 AC FO, on a triple 7. Versus envoy regional in USA.

Oh wait, that’s a 175. You asked for 737. Sorry, don’t have those rates


If you’re talking about Canada. FO on 777 CASM is probably low. But great. Glad that you’re getting paid CASM at jazz

Jesus you sure are obtuse, apparently I need to spell it out for you, read this very slowly as you are slow minded and reading slow may help, in the same airline, s a m e a i r l i n e, show me any that pay the pilots of a smaller airplane with less seats more than the pilots of a larger airplane with more seats, umm kk

Lol. Sure.

[CaptDukeNukem]

To borrow from another poster here, “jfc” do you know what CASM is, it’s cost per available seat mile, do you know what factors into the cost of each seat, Pilot fucking wages, ffs how fucken hard is it to grasp, more available seats mean the ability to make more fucking money.
Show me any airline that pays more for the pilots of a 737 than those of a 777, any on planet earth, you won’t find one

Yea. Year 1 AC FO, on a triple 7. Versus envoy regional in USA.

Oh wait, that’s a 175. You asked for 737. Sorry, don’t have those rates


If you’re talking about Canada. FO on 777 CASM is probably low. But great. Glad that you’re getting paid CASM at jazz

Jesus you sure are obtuse, apparently I need to spell it out for you, read this very slowly as you are slow minded and reading slow may help, in the same airline, s a m e a i r l i n e, show me any that pay the pilots of a smaller airplane with less seats more than the pilots of a larger airplane with more seats, umm kk

To add to that, if the airline pays you 1 dollar per seat per hour, on a two hour flight they will have to take 2 dollars per seat and give it to you, do you understand now how simple math works, if you want 4 dollars per seat per hour on a two hour flight they will need to part with 8 dollars per seat and give it to you.
Now if you fly a smaller airplane say half the seats and you also want 4 dollars per seat per hour, they will now have to part with 16 dollars per seat for the same two hour flight, see how that works. If you don’t understand now, I can’t help you, you might just be too stupid

Here’s the fun part:

You’re getting paid 8 dollars and I’m getting 20.

Actually, I think most of the country is making more than you.

Good luck to you sir

[cdnavater]

Yea. Year 1 AC FO, on a triple 7. Versus envoy regional in USA.

Oh wait, that’s a 175. You asked for 737. Sorry, don’t have those rates


If you’re talking about Canada. FO on 777 CASM is probably low. But great. Glad that you’re getting paid CASM at jazz

Jesus you sure are obtuse, apparently I need to spell it out for you, read this very slowly as you are slow minded and reading slow may help, in the same airline, s a m e a i r l i n e, show me any that pay the pilots of a smaller airplane with less seats more than the pilots of a larger airplane with more seats, umm kk

To add to that, if the airline pays you 1 dollar per seat per hour, on a two hour flight they will have to take 2 dollars per seat and give it to you, do you understand now how simple math works, if you want 4 dollars per seat per hour on a two hour flight they will need to part with 8 dollars per seat and give it to you.
Now if you fly a smaller airplane say half the seats and you also want 4 dollars per seat per hour, they will now have to part with 16 dollars per seat for the same two hour flight, see how that works. If you don’t understand now, I can’t help you, you might just be too stupid

Here’s the fun part:

You’re getting paid 8 dollars and I’m getting 20.

Actually, I think most of the country is making more than you.

Good luck to you sir

Good luck to you, not sure how you dress yourself, you are not making that much more than me, you should go back and review my earlier presentation. If and I have serious doubts Porter hired you as a Captain but if you are, it’s year 1 and with my training override and pension, I’m definitely making more than you.
If Porter’s E2 is still around in three years, you might make slightly more but I still have a way better pension, wait that’s not hard to do considering you don’t have one, plus from what I’m hearing, you might need to use Jazz for your benchmark to get a raise next year!

[CaptDukeNukem]

Jesus you sure are obtuse, apparently I need to spell it out for you, read this very slowly as you are slow minded and reading slow may help, in the same airline, s a m e a i r l i n e, show me any that pay the pilots of a smaller airplane with less seats more than the pilots of a larger airplane with more seats, umm kk

To add to that, if the airline pays you 1 dollar per seat per hour, on a two hour flight they will have to take 2 dollars per seat and give it to you, do you understand now how simple math works, if you want 4 dollars per seat per hour on a two hour flight they will need to part with 8 dollars per seat and give it to you.
Now if you fly a smaller airplane say half the seats and you also want 4 dollars per seat per hour, they will now have to part with 16 dollars per seat for the same two hour flight, see how that works. If you don’t understand now, I can’t help you, you might just be too stupid

Here’s the fun part:

You’re getting paid 8 dollars and I’m getting 20.

Actually, I think most of the country is making more than you.

Good luck to you sir

Good luck to you, not sure how you dress yourself, you are not making that much more than me, you should go back and review my earlier presentation. If and I have serious doubts Porter hired you as a Captain but if you are, it’s year 1 and with my training override and pension, I’m definitely making more than you.
If Porter’s E2 is still around in three years, you might make slightly more but I still have a way better pension, wait that’s not hard to do considering you don’t have one, plus from what I’m hearing, you might need to use Jazz for your benchmark to get a raise next year!

Yea. Jazz rates brought us down for the benchmarking in 2023. Totally hope you guys get a raise.

[khedrei]

Jesus you sure are obtuse, apparently I need to spell it out for you, read this very slowly as you are slow minded and reading slow may help, in the same airline, s a m e a i r l i n e, show me any that pay the pilots of a smaller airplane with less seats more than the pilots of a larger airplane with more seats, umm kk

To add to that, if the airline pays you 1 dollar per seat per hour, on a two hour flight they will have to take 2 dollars per seat and give it to you, do you understand now how simple math works, if you want 4 dollars per seat per hour on a two hour flight they will need to part with 8 dollars per seat and give it to you.
Now if you fly a smaller airplane say half the seats and you also want 4 dollars per seat per hour, they will now have to part with 16 dollars per seat for the same two hour flight, see how that works. If you don’t understand now, I can’t help you, you might just be too stupid

Here’s the fun part:

You’re getting paid 8 dollars and I’m getting 20.

Actually, I think most of the country is making more than you.

Good luck to you sir

Good luck to you, not sure how you dress yourself, you are not making that much more than me, you should go back and review my earlier presentation. If and I have serious doubts Porter hired you as a Captain but if you are, it’s year 1 and with my training override and pension, I’m definitely making more than you.
If Porter’s E2 is still around in three years, you might make slightly more but I still have a way better pension, wait that’s not hard to do considering you don’t have one, plus from what I’m hearing, you might need to use Jazz for your benchmark to get a raise next year!

Still trying to figure out if this guy is for real....

[cdnavater]

Here’s the fun part:

You’re getting paid 8 dollars and I’m getting 20.

Actually, I think most of the country is making more than you.

Good luck to you sir

Good luck to you, not sure how you dress yourself, you are not making that much more than me, you should go back and review my earlier presentation. If and I have serious doubts Porter hired you as a Captain but if you are, it’s year 1 and with my training override and pension, I’m definitely making more than you.
If Porter’s E2 is still around in three years, you might make slightly more but I still have a way better pension, wait that’s not hard to do considering you don’t have one, plus from what I’m hearing, you might need to use Jazz for your benchmark to get a raise next year!

Yea. Jazz rates brought us down for the benchmarking in 2023. Totally hope you guys get a raise.

Do you see the problem there, your fake union fell for it, your company convinced them that 76 seats is the same as 132 seats.
You know the company has a way of calculating their fixed cost to operate an airplane, it’s called CASM and part of that is pilot and FA wages, I’m sure the formula includes the speed of the aircraft but they know exactly how much pilot wages cost each seat per mile.
I’ve just simplified it to a straightforward cost per seat per hour, about 13 years ago, during the 2015 contract negotiations, I calculated the wages for the entire AC fleet and every aircraft was within a few cents of each other for both positions.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that this simple method works out to a few cents difference for every aircraft?
Of course for the airbus I had to average out the seats with the three types and for Jazz we had a bunch of 50 seat aircraft which brought the average down a bit but it still averaged out to the same cost per seat.
Seriously though, if you think this is so stupid, please tell me how they do figure it out.
Hint, it has nothing to do with more responsibility.

[cdnavater]

Here’s the fun part:

You’re getting paid 8 dollars and I’m getting 20.

Actually, I think most of the country is making more than you.

Good luck to you sir

Good luck to you, not sure how you dress yourself, you are not making that much more than me, you should go back and review my earlier presentation. If and I have serious doubts Porter hired you as a Captain but if you are, it’s year 1 and with my training override and pension, I’m definitely making more than you.
If Porter’s E2 is still around in three years, you might make slightly more but I still have a way better pension, wait that’s not hard to do considering you don’t have one, plus from what I’m hearing, you might need to use Jazz for your benchmark to get a raise next year!

Still trying to figure out if this guy is for real....

I am a real boy!
What part do you dispute?

[cjp]

...

Still trying to figure out if this guy is for real....

I am a real boy!
What part do you dispute?

Not much to dispute, I'm guessing you're DC, not DB. It's certainly one of the only things the majority of AC pilots talk about to justify their choice in employer. I guess the end justifies the means.

What metrics make you think Porter won't be around after 3 years?

Betting against Porter in Canadian aviation is like betting against Tesla. You'd be half right because of the risk the Deluces have taken on, but they picked a strong segment to chip away at. They've got the right machine, they've got an established customer base, and they've got the right product. Pricing is finding it's footing.

Biggest weakness is aggressive growth with a finite flight crew supply - and let's be honest - a decent but slightly above average salary on both sides of the cockpit.

U.S flying coming shortly.

[cdnavater]

Still trying to figure out if this guy is for real....

I am a real boy!
What part do you dispute?

Not much to dispute, I'm guessing you're DC, not DB. It's certainly one of the only things the majority of AC pilots talk about to justify their choice in employer. I guess the end justifies the means.

What metrics make you think Porter won't be around after 3 years?

Betting against Porter in Canadian aviation is like betting against Tesla. You'd be half right because of the risk the Deluces have taken on, but they picked a strong segment to chip away at. They've got the right machine, they've got an established customer base, and they've got the right product. Pricing is finding it's footing.

Biggest weakness is aggressive growth with a finite flight crew supply - and let's be honest - a decent but slightly above average salary on both sides of the cockpit.

U.S flying coming shortly.

Not betting against Porter, just highlighting the risks with an aggressive growth strategy into a market with established operators, it isn’t really working out for Flair and Porter doesn’t have a reward program so how many business travellers do you think will jump over?
But mostly just tired of the ex-Jazz guys slagging it with outright exaggerations of how bad it was, presumably to justify their decision to jump ship.
The pay is the major issue that needs addressing, no question but to say the maintenance is the worst, etc…
I take offence, anyhow good luck and I hope it works but the pay would need to increase significantly to lure away anyone who was hired before 2015 from Jazz.
I am on the DB pension, you may have reversed that, DC is the new pension

[canadian_aviator_4]

I am a real boy!
What part do you dispute?

Not much to dispute, I'm guessing you're DC, not DB. It's certainly one of the only things the majority of AC pilots talk about to justify their choice in employer. I guess the end justifies the means.

What metrics make you think Porter won't be around after 3 years?

Betting against Porter in Canadian aviation is like betting against Tesla. You'd be half right because of the risk the Deluces have taken on, but they picked a strong segment to chip away at. They've got the right machine, they've got an established customer base, and they've got the right product. Pricing is finding it's footing.

Biggest weakness is aggressive growth with a finite flight crew supply - and let's be honest - a decent but slightly above average salary on both sides of the cockpit.

U.S flying coming shortly.

Not betting against Porter, just highlighting the risks with an aggressive growth strategy into a market with established operators, it isn’t really working out for Flair and Porter doesn’t have a reward program so how many business travellers do you think will jump over?
But mostly just tired of the ex-Jazz guys slagging it with outright exaggerations of how bad it was, presumably to justify their decision to jump ship.
The pay is the major issue that needs addressing, no question but to say the maintenance is the worst, etc…
I take offence, anyhow good luck and I hope it works but the pay would need to increase significantly to lure away anyone who was hired before 2015 from Jazz.
I am on the DB pension, you may have reversed that, DC is the new pension

Being on DB pension you work at almost a different company than those on DC. Different pay scale, possibly C2 passes and eligible for upgrades to business class on DH.
Honestly, jazz is not a bad place if you have all of those benefits.

However, you need to remember many jazz pilots have none of those benefits, making it more desirable for them to leave.

Not trying to talk poorly about jazz, those are the facts. And if you find offence. I apologize. Just be happy and enjoy life!

[C-GGGQ]

Yea. Year 1 AC FO, on a triple 7. Versus envoy regional in USA.

Oh wait, that’s a 175. You asked for 737. Sorry, don’t have those rates


If you’re talking about Canada. FO on 777 CASM is probably low. But great. Glad that you’re getting paid CASM at jazz

Jesus you sure are obtuse, apparently I need to spell it out for you, read this very slowly as you are slow minded and reading slow may help, in the same airline, s a m e a i r l i n e, show me any that pay the pilots of a smaller airplane with less seats more than the pilots of a larger airplane with more seats, umm kk

To add to that, if the airline pays you 1 dollar per seat per hour, on a two hour flight they will have to take 2 dollars per seat and give it to you, do you understand now how simple math works, if you want 4 dollars per seat per hour on a two hour flight they will need to part with 8 dollars per seat and give it to you.
Now if you fly a smaller airplane say half the seats and you also want 4 dollars per seat per hour, they will now have to part with 16 dollars per seat for the same two hour flight, see how that works. If you don’t understand now, I can’t help you, you might just be too stupid

Here’s the fun part:

You’re getting paid 8 dollars and I’m getting 20.

Actually, I think most of the country is making more than you.

Good luck to you sir

Pretty much. Even the smaller 705's like Pasco and CMA are outstretching Jazz on FO pay at least and probably captain pay for the first couple of years.

[cjp]

I am a real boy!
What part do you dispute?

Not much to dispute, I'm guessing you're DC, not DB. It's certainly one of the only things the majority of AC pilots talk about to justify their choice in employer. I guess the end justifies the means.

What metrics make you think Porter won't be around after 3 years?

Betting against Porter in Canadian aviation is like betting against Tesla. You'd be half right because of the risk the Deluces have taken on, but they picked a strong segment to chip away at. They've got the right machine, they've got an established customer base, and they've got the right product. Pricing is finding it's footing.

Biggest weakness is aggressive growth with a finite flight crew supply - and let's be honest - a decent but slightly above average salary on both sides of the cockpit.

U.S flying coming shortly.

Not betting against Porter, just highlighting the risks with an aggressive growth strategy into a market with established operators, it isn’t really working out for Flair and Porter doesn’t have a reward program so how many business travellers do you think will jump over?
But mostly just tired of the ex-Jazz guys slagging it with outright exaggerations of how bad it was, presumably to justify their decision to jump ship.
The pay is the major issue that needs addressing, no question but to say the maintenance is the worst, etc…
I take offence, anyhow good luck and I hope it works but the pay would need to increase significantly to lure away anyone who was hired before 2015 from Jazz.
I am on the DB pension, you may have reversed that, DC is the new pension

I figured you for a newer hire at AC on DC. Well, consider yourself highly fortunate - a pension these days is rare bonus in any industry. The DC isn't horrible either, but you need to hit that left seat early to maximize IIRC.

You are correct - lacking a rewards program there is an uphill battle to attract long term business travelers - particularly ones with Super Elite status or above. When it comes to 'haute culture' they'll still fly AC First or full business to places like New York or LA. But that's not who Porter is advertising to.

As far as Jazz, I certainly missed the offending comments regarding mx. I would imagine with what those AMEs have to do with the average age of their fleet (and a decreasing supply of experienced AMEs) - that's another losing battle. Pilot's wise Jazz has done a poor job of keeping relevant with changes in the marketplace - riding on ACs hiring coat tails to keep staffing up.

I think their only moves at this point are either get absorbed by AC or slit their throats and pay up big time. Quick math would dictate to stop the bleeding - they would need a fully mended flow through and a 50% jump in salary OR at minimum 100% salary bump and shorter payscale with no changes to the flow through to keep afloat.

[cdnavater]

Not much to dispute, I'm guessing you're DC, not DB. It's certainly one of the only things the majority of AC pilots talk about to justify their choice in employer. I guess the end justifies the means.

What metrics make you think Porter won't be around after 3 years?

Betting against Porter in Canadian aviation is like betting against Tesla. You'd be half right because of the risk the Deluces have taken on, but they picked a strong segment to chip away at. They've got the right machine, they've got an established customer base, and they've got the right product. Pricing is finding it's footing.

Biggest weakness is aggressive growth with a finite flight crew supply - and let's be honest - a decent but slightly above average salary on both sides of the cockpit.

U.S flying coming shortly.

Not betting against Porter, just highlighting the risks with an aggressive growth strategy into a market with established operators, it isn’t really working out for Flair and Porter doesn’t have a reward program so how many business travellers do you think will jump over?
But mostly just tired of the ex-Jazz guys slagging it with outright exaggerations of how bad it was, presumably to justify their decision to jump ship.
The pay is the major issue that needs addressing, no question but to say the maintenance is the worst, etc…
I take offence, anyhow good luck and I hope it works but the pay would need to increase significantly to lure away anyone who was hired before 2015 from Jazz.
I am on the DB pension, you may have reversed that, DC is the new pension

Being on DB pension you work at almost a different company than those on DC. Different pay scale, possibly C2 passes and eligible for upgrades to business class on DH.
Honestly, jazz is not a bad place if you have all of those benefits.

However, you need to remember many jazz pilots have none of those benefits, making it more desirable for them to leave.

Not trying to talk poorly about jazz, those are the facts. And if you find offence. I apologize. Just be happy and enjoy life!

Yes, those are the facts and I agree, it’s different company for newer pilots. The pay scale catches up on your 5th year and remains the same for the remainder, so if you stay past five years it’s better. The DC pension actually has a higher company contribution than the DB, I believe after 6 years, would have to look it up to be certain.
There are also pilots who had C2 passes for 4 years and then they were turned into C4, but as a consolation prize they get two C2s per year and upgrade for DH.
I actually don’t begrudge any pilot fo leaving and in fact I encourage them, send a message that you are worth more, as I’ve said before, every ounce of bargaining capital since 2015 has gone to improving those hired after 2015 conditions, this was the sacrifice to keep what I had and not get outsourced out of a job.
Anyhow back to Porters new pay scale, good luck to all in bargaining and those to follow

[schnitzel2k3]

Not betting against Porter, just highlighting the risks with an aggressive growth strategy into a market with established operators, it isn’t really working out for Flair and Porter doesn’t have a reward program so how many business travellers do you think will jump over?
But mostly just tired of the ex-Jazz guys slagging it with outright exaggerations of how bad it was, presumably to justify their decision to jump ship.
The pay is the major issue that needs addressing, no question but to say the maintenance is the worst, etc…
I take offence, anyhow good luck and I hope it works but the pay would need to increase significantly to lure away anyone who was hired before 2015 from Jazz.
I am on the DB pension, you may have reversed that, DC is the new pension

Being on DB pension you work at almost a different company than those on DC. Different pay scale, possibly C2 passes and eligible for upgrades to business class on DH.
Honestly, jazz is not a bad place if you have all of those benefits.

However, you need to remember many jazz pilots have none of those benefits, making it more desirable for them to leave.

Not trying to talk poorly about jazz, those are the facts. And if you find offence. I apologize. Just be happy and enjoy life!

Anyhow back to Porters new pay scale, good luck to all in bargaining and those to follow

Not much bargaining at Porter - but I certainly wish our colleagues at Jazz the best of future negots. I've heard lots of rumours about good things coming - but when is the question.

If you guys can make big strides, we'll likely benefit which will give you room to go up again.

[brooks]

Heard a rumor you guys are paying year 1 captains 180k now?

[Timetoflyagain]

Heard a rumor you guys are paying year 1 captains 180k now?

…well..the Year 1 base is $155K. ..a year 1 captain who is also in the training/checking dept and/or who dips into the plentiful OT pool can easily make far more. Then add the RRSP match (4% for year 1) and perdiems and then $180K is easily within reach.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Heard a rumor you guys are paying year 1 captains 180k now?

News to me… but sign me up.

[Heisenberg666]

Not sure who was spreading the $180k rumour but I had several folks message me privately last night asking to confirm. It sounds great but there isn't anything I've seen internally that would substantiate that.

[cjp]

Got the same inquiries yesterday regarding this.

Don't see how this could be possible yet without either:

- Benchmarking at a higher percentile.
- Changes with compensation at other companies.

At this point if E2 Captain's go to 180k, FO's are likely going to have to come up by the same amount, if not more.

It'll happen, just not yet.