Tolip wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:01 pm
Well the way I am understanding this whole benchmark pay scales at porter is that.poter will only give a subpar match to the hard fought battles that are fought at other companies. Every raise that will come to the canadian aviation sector will only come though the blood sweat and tears of an organized union. The encore raise (our union got that for us. Flairs new contract (union). The much anticipated new WJ contract will be fought brutally by every WJ pilot on property... meanwhile then poter just copies and pastes that hard work and gives similar but lower wages for its pilots.. if not for the hard fought battlea that encore, flair, WJ, ,,AC are all fighting. Poter would never see an another "benchmark " pay adjustment.
I am legitimately surprised there is someone from Encore who is still drinking the koolaid. There is not one person here who does not understand how the WJ payscale works, so trying to educate people about how amazing things are there compared to others is a waste of time.
I was at Encore myself, and got out as the company was in shambles and has gotten worse since. Is the job good, yes but it’s just like Jazz, Porter, etc. the behind the scenes, morale, etc have tanked and you know it.
Also, to think the new WJ CBA is going to be light years better than it was is not accurate which shows you don’t know how these things work. I really do hope it works out, but in the end WJ pilots and the company will each get abit of what each other wants (I.e, swoop work rules to the company versus YOS for pilots in round 1).
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Tolip wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:01 pm
Well the way I am understanding this whole benchmark pay scales at porter is that.poter will only give a subpar match to the hard fought battles that are fought at other companies. Every raise that will come to the canadian aviation sector will only come though the blood sweat and tears of an organized union. The encore raise (our union got that for us. Flairs new contract (union). The much anticipated new WJ contract will be fought brutally by every WJ pilot on property... meanwhile then poter just copies and pastes that hard work and gives similar but lower wages for its pilots.. if not for the hard fought battlea that encore, flair, WJ, ,,AC are all fighting. Poter would never see an another "benchmark " pay adjustment.
I am legitimately surprised there is someone from Encore who is still drinking the koolaid. There is not one person here who does not understand how the WJ payscale works, so trying to educate people about how amazing things are there compared to others is a waste of time.
I was at Encore myself, and got out as the company was in shambles and has gotten worse since. Is the job good, yes but it’s just like Jazz, Porter, etc. the behind the scenes, morale, etc have tanked and you know it.
Also, to think the new WJ CBA is going to be light years better than it was is not accurate which shows you don’t know how these things work. I really do hope it works out, but in the end WJ pilots and the company will each get abit of what each other wants (I.e, swoop work rules to the company versus YOS for pilots in round 1).
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Awe he’s growing up and finally knows what benchmarking is while typing away pretending to be an expert in a porter thread! Proud of u kiddo
I am legitimately surprised there is someone from Encore who is still drinking the koolaid. There is not one person here who does not understand how the WJ payscale works, so trying to educate people about how amazing things are there compared to others is a waste of time.
I was at Encore myself, and got out as the company was in shambles and has gotten worse since. Is the job good, yes but it’s just like Jazz, Porter, etc. the behind the scenes, morale, etc have tanked and you know it.
Also, to think the new WJ CBA is going to be light years better than it was is not accurate which shows you don’t know how these things work. I really do hope it works out, but in the end WJ pilots and the company will each get abit of what each other wants (I.e, swoop work rules to the company versus YOS for pilots in round 1).
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Awe he’s growing up and finally knows what benchmarking is while typing away pretending to be an expert in a porter thread! Proud of u kiddo
Tolip wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:01 pm
Well the way I am understanding this whole benchmark pay scales at porter is that.poter will only give a subpar match to the hard fought battles that are fought at other companies. Every raise that will come to the canadian aviation sector will only come though the blood sweat and tears of an organized union. The encore raise (our union got that for us. Flairs new contract (union). The much anticipated new WJ contract will be fought brutally by every WJ pilot on property... meanwhile then poter just copies and pastes that hard work and gives similar but lower wages for its pilots.. if not for the hard fought battlea that encore, flair, WJ, ,,AC are all fighting. Poter would never see an another "benchmark " pay adjustment.
I am legitimately surprised there is someone from Encore who is still drinking the koolaid. There is not one person here who does not understand how the WJ payscale works, so trying to educate people about how amazing things are there compared to others is a waste of time.
I was at Encore myself, and got out as the company was in shambles and has gotten worse since. Is the job good, yes but it’s just like Jazz, Porter, etc. the behind the scenes, morale, etc have tanked and you know it.
Also, to think the new WJ CBA is going to be light years better than it was is not accurate which shows you don’t know how these things work. I really do hope it works out, but in the end WJ pilots and the company will each get abit of what each other wants (I.e, swoop work rules to the company versus YOS for pilots in round 1).
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Nah we good bruh… morale is good here. And benchmarking better than jazz rates. I’ll roll the dice on no union for at least a couple more years.
I am legitimately surprised there is someone from Encore who is still drinking the koolaid. There is not one person here who does not understand how the WJ payscale works, so trying to educate people about how amazing things are there compared to others is a waste of time.
I was at Encore myself, and got out as the company was in shambles and has gotten worse since. Is the job good, yes but it’s just like Jazz, Porter, etc. the behind the scenes, morale, etc have tanked and you know it.
Also, to think the new WJ CBA is going to be light years better than it was is not accurate which shows you don’t know how these things work. I really do hope it works out, but in the end WJ pilots and the company will each get abit of what each other wants (I.e, swoop work rules to the company versus YOS for pilots in round 1).
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Awe he’s growing up and finally knows what benchmarking is while typing away pretending to be an expert in a porter thread! Proud of u kiddo
I am legitimately surprised there is someone from Encore who is still drinking the koolaid. There is not one person here who does not understand how the WJ payscale works, so trying to educate people about how amazing things are there compared to others is a waste of time.
I was at Encore myself, and got out as the company was in shambles and has gotten worse since. Is the job good, yes but it’s just like Jazz, Porter, etc. the behind the scenes, morale, etc have tanked and you know it.
Also, to think the new WJ CBA is going to be light years better than it was is not accurate which shows you don’t know how these things work. I really do hope it works out, but in the end WJ pilots and the company will each get abit of what each other wants (I.e, swoop work rules to the company versus YOS for pilots in round 1).
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Awe he’s growing up and finally knows what benchmarking is while typing away pretending to be an expert in a porter thread! Proud of u kiddo
Assuming that was directed at me, I have not been called kiddo since early 70s, that being said let’s just see what happens down the road, I assure you I will remember this and be sure to tell you I warned you.
Thanks for answering the question about your scope protection, none! Got it, don’t be worried though, I am absolutely sure it will be fine!
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Awe he’s growing up and finally knows what benchmarking is while typing away pretending to be an expert in a porter thread! Proud of u kiddo
Bahaha, ok that made me laugh pretty good.
So, Porter raises their pay before others! Got it, gotta remain competitive there boys and girls, good job!
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
Awe he’s growing up and finally knows what benchmarking is while typing away pretending to be an expert in a porter thread! Proud of u kiddo
Assuming that was directed at me, I have not been called kiddo since early 70s, that being said let’s just see what happens down the road, I assure you I will remember this and be sure to tell you I warned you.
Thanks for answering the question about your scope protection, none! Got it, don’t be worried though, I am absolutely sure it will be fine!
Just curious… honestly. What’s stopping AC from creating sky regional 2.0? They did it to jazz in the past with sky 1.0. Your protections are half assed arguments. AC knows how to dance their way around contracts. What if AC hired porter to do some work for them? Or lynx or even jetlines. Does jazz own the E175s… no. We could equally say I told you so down the road.
And sure AC has scope clause, but dude…The only protection the jazz contract you signed only protects the jazz flying. Not the “loss” of ac work. That’s covered under the CPA, which is a whole other story.
Cdnavater does raise a good point. Scope protection is important and it is naive to assume the company wouldnt try and pull the rug out from under us if it made a difference to the bottom line.
But I dont know if the current job market/pilot supply would make this easy/possible for them. Theyre already scraping the bottom of the barrel experience wise and still cant attract direct entry Dash Captains. I just dont think theres a supply of pilots willing to take the chance on a new whipsaw carrier.
I think Scope Protection, Accident protection, and Merger/Acquisition protection would all be valuable benefits that a union could provide us.
The benchmarking is fine. Will Porter ever lead the charge by being the top paying? Probably not. But we also wont be getting locked into contracts for 10+ years and will be somewhere in the mix to help apply pressure for others negotiating.
Awe he’s growing up and finally knows what benchmarking is while typing away pretending to be an expert in a porter thread! Proud of u kiddo
Assuming that was directed at me, I have not been called kiddo since early 70s, that being said let’s just see what happens down the road, I assure you I will remember this and be sure to tell you I warned you.
Thanks for answering the question about your scope protection, none! Got it, don’t be worried though, I am absolutely sure it will be fine!
Just curious… honestly. What’s stopping AC from creating sky regional 2.0? They did it to jazz in the past with sky 1.0. Your protections are half assed arguments. AC knows how to dance their way around contracts. What if AC hired porter to do some work for them? Or lynx or even jetlines. Does jazz own the E175s… no. We could equally say I told you so down the road.
And sure AC has scope clause, but dude…The only protection the jazz contract you signed only protects the jazz flying. Not the “loss” of ac work. That’s covered under the CPA, which is a whole other story.
Never say never, so I’ll say the current CPA restricts anyone else from flying 76 seat jet and 78 seat prop, the sub 50 seat is available for grabs, maybe Porter will grab that up. I wonder who they will benchmark for that, Pivot? Maybe EVAS?
braaap Braap wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:03 pm
Cdnavater does raise a good point. Scope protection is important and it is naive to assume the company wouldnt try and pull the rug out from under us if it made a difference to the bottom line.
But I dont know if the current job market/pilot supply would make this easy/possible for them. Theyre already scraping the bottom of the barrel experience wise and still cant attract direct entry Dash Captains. I just dont think theres a supply of pilots willing to take the chance on a new whipsaw carrier.
I think Scope Protection, Accident protection, and Merger/Acquisition protection would all be valuable benefits that a union could provide us.
The benchmarking is fine. Will Porter ever lead the charge by being the top paying? Probably not. But we also wont be getting locked into contracts for 10+ years and will be somewhere in the mix to help apply pressure for others negotiating.
That’s all I was getting at but CaptDuke got his big boy undies all up in a bunch
braaap Braap wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:03 pm
Cdnavater does raise a good point. Scope protection is important and it is naive to assume the company wouldnt try and pull the rug out from under us if it made a difference to the bottom line.
But I dont know if the current job market/pilot supply would make this easy/possible for them. Theyre already scraping the bottom of the barrel experience wise and still cant attract direct entry Dash Captains. I just dont think theres a supply of pilots willing to take the chance on a new whipsaw carrier.
I think Scope Protection, Accident protection, and Merger/Acquisition protection would all be valuable benefits that a union could provide us.
The benchmarking is fine. Will Porter ever lead the charge by being the top paying? Probably not. But we also wont be getting locked into contracts for 10+ years and will be somewhere in the mix to help apply pressure for others negotiating.
That’s all I was getting at but CaptDuke got his big boy undies all up in a bunch
Lol. Dude. My big boy undies? You’re the one who quoted a post from a month ago to get this ridiculousness going again.
They certainly raised their pay before jazz. Enjoy your A scale.
And they did it because they wanted to, right?
You do realize there is no more A or B scale right, you know we got rid of it?
Tell that to the guys DHing in the back.
Well, if that’s the new age definition of a scale, then there is a c scale, there were pilots who had C2 passes and lost them four years after they were hired.
When we reference an A/B scale, it typically refers to a pay scale.
Tolip wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:01 pm
Well the way I am understanding this whole benchmark pay scales at porter is that.poter will only give a subpar match to the hard fought battles that are fought at other companies. Every raise that will come to the canadian aviation sector will only come though the blood sweat and tears of an organized union. The encore raise (our union got that for us. Flairs new contract (union). The much anticipated new WJ contract will be fought brutally by every WJ pilot on property... meanwhile then poter just copies and pastes that hard work and gives similar but lower wages for its pilots.. if not for the hard fought battlea that encore, flair, WJ, ,,AC are all fighting. Poter would never see an another "benchmark " pay adjustment.
I am legitimately surprised there is someone from Encore who is still drinking the koolaid. There is not one person here who does not understand how the WJ payscale works, so trying to educate people about how amazing things are there compared to others is a waste of time.
I was at Encore myself, and got out as the company was in shambles and has gotten worse since. Is the job good, yes but it’s just like Jazz, Porter, etc. the behind the scenes, morale, etc have tanked and you know it.
Also, to think the new WJ CBA is going to be light years better than it was is not accurate which shows you don’t know how these things work. I really do hope it works out, but in the end WJ pilots and the company will each get abit of what each other wants (I.e, swoop work rules to the company versus YOS for pilots in round 1).
He’s not wrong, Porter doesn’t raise their pay until a benchmark exercise shows them paying less, in effect other companies must raise their salaries for Porter to consider raising its own.
Why not set the bar instead of relying on others to pave the way, because you don’t have a proper union and the company will use that to its full advantage. They have you convinced, with good reason that you must be competitive or else.
The reality is Jazz was leading the way for regional pay at one point, the ramifications of that was the creation of two other undercutting airlines to put the downward pressure on.
You guys have an advantage though, your flying is your flying, I would get a union and a scope clause pretty soon though, if Porter sees a way to subcontract your flying to save a buck they will.
Under your current agreement, is there anything that would prevent them from subleasing half your fleet to another company with a contract to provide the flying?
The above is what I wrote in response to a previous post, what part of what I wrote go you all riled up? Seriously, it was legitimately based on my experience of over 30 years of being in the aviation industry, since 1990 I’ve watched and learned of what to expect from management, you don’t like what I have to say, skip it and move on or don’t I don’t give a shit if you want to fling your poo at me!
You do realize there is no more A or B scale right, you know we got rid of it?
Tell that to the guys DHing in the back.
Well, if that’s the new age definition of a scale, then there is a c scale, there were pilots who had C2 passes and lost them four years after they were hired.
When we reference an A/B scale, it typically refers to a pay scale.
So what you’re saying is that not all jazz pilots get the same deal… got it. Thanks
Well, if that’s the new age definition of a scale, then there is a c scale, there were pilots who had C2 passes and lost them four years after they were hired.
When we reference an A/B scale, it typically refers to a pay scale.
So what you’re saying is that not all jazz pilots get the same deal… got it. Thanks
Yes, AC has and always will do whatever they can to sow division in the pilot group, it works like a charm!
It seems Porter has two groups of pilots also, I wonder when they offer Porter Prop pilots jets at a discount, nah they wouldn’t do that would they?
