Timetoflyagain wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:06 am
…of course they did…all because Porter HAD a big order for the C’s contingent on the YTZ runway being extended and jet ban ended. Trudeau got elected, killed the extension and the hometown/located in companies from Quebec (both BBD and Pratt&Whitney, the engine maker) were losing a huge order..at a time they had not many orders at all. The big red Liberal machine helped the big red airline (by stopping Porter) and the big red province needed help so..presto chango..a big new order suddenly was announced.
While it’s easy to think politics are involved, you only have to look back in time to see that Air Canada has a very long history of resisting governmental pressure and buying the right aircraft for the job. In fact the last aircraft Air Canada was forced to buy where better choices existed, was the Canadair DC-4M North Star. (They wanted DC-6s).
But, looking today, clearly the CSeries/A220 is the perfect aircraft for Air Canada. They can’t get enough, quick enough. Looking at Porter though, the E2 fits them better. Not only could they be delivered much quicker, at a better price, but the 2x2 cabin configuration fits with their “boutique” image of a better Economy experience.
For the record, I ferried two new E190s from Brasil to Montreal and got to watch the financial transaction. It’s inappropriate for me to say the purchase price, but it was less than the price of a Triple engine.
Sale-lease back… Airline buys from manufacturer. Sells to leasing companies, banks etc then agrees to keep aircraft and pay monthly “lease” fee. Airline gets $ from sale of aircraft to finance expansion that new aircraft will bring. Works incredibly well if airline sells aircraft for more than they purchased them for..(buy low, sell high). Leasing company gets guaranteed customer so doesn’t have to buy aircraft on spec and hope someone wants them, give them away at fire sale prices or default to manufacturer. (See Flair threads for multiple examples of this). Airline gets in trouble if they don’t have enough revenue to pay lease fees. Some agreements may also have a buyout clause so airline can repurchase aircraft down the road. I believe Porter did this with many Q400’s.
Can you please post a link to the article and quote the statement about Porter being unprofitable for its entire existence? I googled it, and I could not find any reference.
I too have been unable to reference this exact quote. You can find the case on Canlii.org . I’ve gone through (searching for “profit” and variations of it) it and as far as I can see they never said this. They did claim that the old agreement that required them to pay terminal fees based on using 172 slots created an unprofitable environment. They were bound to this arrangement for 5 years beginning at the sale of the terminal. They worked on changing the agreement at the end of 2019/beginning of 2020 (If you were at Porter you may remember the email from MD and offers of LOAs for the winter season)
I’ve seen articles from 2012 and mentions of 2007 and 2019 being profitable as well.
In the end it’s a private company and there will be so many financial smoke and mirrors that it’ll be impossible to get a read on it’s true financial status.
Can you please post a link to the article and quote the statement about Porter being unprofitable for its entire existence? I googled it, and I could not find any reference.
I too have been unable to reference this exact quote. You can find the case on Canlii.org . I’ve gone through (searching for “profit” and variations of it) it and as far as I can see they never said this. They did claim that the old agreement that required them to pay terminal fees based on using 172 slots created an unprofitable environment. They were bound to this arrangement for 5 years beginning at the sale of the terminal. They worked on changing the agreement at the end of 2019/beginning of 2020 (If you were at Porter you may remember the email from MD and offers of LOAs for the winter season)
I’ve seen articles from 2012 and mentions of 2007 and 2019 being profitable as well.
In the end it’s a private company and there will be so many financial smoke and mirrors that it’ll be impossible to get a read on it’s true financial status.
Expect ONEX to do an IPO on Westjet soon after an agreement is reached with its pilots. I will consider buying shares but only for a period of time, not a long-term hold, any airline for that matter. Expect Porter to also do an IPO in the next couple years. Instead of buying shares though, I will short their stock. I have seen the Porter song sheet many times before with other airlines. Too many questions, too many areas of concern, the sale/leasebacks are just one red flag. The best advice for younger pilots is to pick an airline that has a high probability of being around in 30 years. Don't be distracted by the staring salaries, rapid progression, a 'great' culture, etc, etc. Focus on your AI, don't chase your performance instruments.
Can you please post a link to the article and quote the statement about Porter being unprofitable for its entire existence? I googled it, and I could not find any reference.
I too have been unable to reference this exact quote. You can find the case on Canlii.org . I’ve gone through (searching for “profit” and variations of it) it and as far as I can see they never said this. They did claim that the old agreement that required them to pay terminal fees based on using 172 slots created an unprofitable environment. They were bound to this arrangement for 5 years beginning at the sale of the terminal. They worked on changing the agreement at the end of 2019/beginning of 2020 (If you were at Porter you may remember the email from MD and offers of LOAs for the winter season)
I’ve seen articles from 2012 and mentions of 2007 and 2019 being profitable as well.
In the end it’s a private company and there will be so many financial smoke and mirrors that it’ll be impossible to get a read on it’s true financial status.
Expect ONEX to do an IPO on Westjet soon after an agreement is reached with its pilots. I will consider buying shares but only for a period of time, not a long-term hold, any airline for that matter. Expect Porter to also do an IPO in the next couple years. Instead of buying shares though, I will short their stock. I have seen the Porter song sheet many times before with other airlines. Too many questions, too many areas of concern, the sale/leasebacks are just one red flag. The best advice for younger pilots is to pick an airline that has a high probability of being around in 30 years. Don't be distracted by the staring salaries, rapid progression, a 'great' culture, etc, etc. Focus on your AI, don't chase your performance instruments.
