A read for all negotiating pilots - Even the Meter Reader job, which requires no education makes $70k a year!

[UndisputedTruth]

Airsprint just revised their pay scale for the pilots. The gains are good but disappointing they still have not tied the annual increases to inflation/CPI.

Edited

[digits_]

50% gain for all FOs

Didn't they go from 65k to 80k? That's a 23% raise. Not bad, but nowhere near 50%.

[AirSprintInc]

That may be in reference to the pay scales compared to two years ago, as 1st year FO pay was 55K to start, we then implemented pay changes last year to 65K and now the most recent change to 80K. Comparing the pay rates from 2 years ago to today is approaching a 50% increase. On the CJ Captain side, they did see a 50% increase over two years, as starting pay 2 years ago was 90K, increased last year to 102.5K and now 135K.
That is if my memory and math have not failed me.
MNR

[‘Bob’]

Please do not forget that unless it’s changed that AS pilots have to work 13 months a year. 234 days a year for an 18/10 schedule.

[goldeneagle]

Please do not forget that unless it’s changed that AS pilots have to work 13 months a year. 234 days a year for an 18/10 schedule.

Just because a rotation schedule doesn't line up with the calendar doesn't mean there are 13 months in a year. There may be 13 rotations, but it's still not 13 months.

[Roundel Randy]

That may be in reference to the pay scales compared to two years ago, as 1st year FO pay was 55K to start, we then implemented pay changes last year to 65K and now the most recent change to 80K. Comparing the pay rates from 2 years ago to today is approaching a 50% increase. On the CJ Captain side, they did see a 50% increase over two years, as starting pay 2 years ago was 90K, increased last year to 102.5K and now 135K.
That is if my memory and math have not failed me.
MNR

Hi Matt, I was wondering for FO positions, are the requirements firm? If someone is a few hundred above the PIC requirement but a couple hundred below the TT requirement, could they still be considered?

Also, what is the likelihood of getting the desired base? How do the subbases work? I'm assuming one can choose to live at any subbase.

Thank you!

[Blueontop]

There is an Airsprint thread in the corporate section for this exact question.

[rookiepilot]

PSAC is taking a strike vote for their 155,000 members.

Might be the biggest strike in Canadian history.

How’s everyone feel about that?

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazine ... -momentum/

[rando]

PSAC is taking a strike vote for their 155,000 members.

Might be the biggest strike in Canadian history.

How’s everyone feel about that?

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazine ... -momentum/

CRA workers have it pretty rough. Fully paid mat leave with top up. Job protection for 5 years if you want to take prolonged leave. They are trying to make them go back to the office. Unbelievable!

What kind of employer would treat their employees so shit!

A few quick comparisons between these workers to other people working similar roles will quickly show you this strike is warranted as they are light years behind in compensation and benefits.

[‘Bob’]

Please do not forget that unless it’s changed that AS pilots have to work 13 months a year. 234 days a year for an 18/10 schedule.

Just because a rotation schedule doesn't line up with the calendar doesn't mean there are 13 months in a year. There may be 13 rotations, but it's still not 13 months.

That is true.

But you will find that if you add 18 and 10 you get 28.

And if you add 28 thirteen times you get 364.

So anyone only looking at the 18 number thinking that 18 days a month is hard, but doable… think again.

[CanadaAir]

That may be in reference to the pay scales compared to two years ago, as 1st year FO pay was 55K to start, we then implemented pay changes last year to 65K and now the most recent change to 80K. Comparing the pay rates from 2 years ago to today is approaching a 50% increase. On the CJ Captain side, they did see a 50% increase over two years, as starting pay 2 years ago was 90K, increased last year to 102.5K and now 135K.
That is if my memory and math have not failed me.
MNR

Would like to thank Air Sprint management for being one of the only non unionized companies which is transparent with its pay and working conditions.

There are other points which make a strong company besides pay

• a transparent management team which doesn’t hide info from the pilots and works with them rather than against
  
  investing in new aircraft and top technology
  
  a variety of scheduling options & ways to maintain pilot work life balance, not calling them on days off
  
  management that doesn’t go cheap on training, maintenance, fuel, & equipment can go a long way
  
  not reprimanding pilots for de icing costs, calling in sick or fatigued, grounding the aircraft over maintenance

There are many companies pressuring pilots to fly in uncomfortable scenarios which could've been avoided by the company if scheduling, operational & maintenance aspects were properly managed in advance.

Its not the pilots pay grade to save the day from incompetent management teams & poor maintenance practices.

Cutting on maintenance has to stop.

Negotiating pilots don't need to continue flying aircraft which are broken.
You don't have to defer maintenance on an item, even if it's an MEL. If maintenance is a problem which needs to be improved, refuse to fly.

[CanadaAir]

I’m sorry, 75K for a 705 Captain is a NEW payscale.

That is absolutely absurd. Every other company on the property in YVR is paying more than that. GONE are the days of, oh I have to do it as I want to be in YVR.

So just for comparison, I was offered $75k to fly a PC12 out of a place far cheaper to live than YVR in 2005. That's $110k in todays dollars which is reasonable IMO. Now figure the added revenue generated by a Saab and we should be looking at a ballpark of $150k. Now add a housing premium for YVR...

We have a long way to go to catch up with inflation.

Many posters on this site should read this and learn about inflation.

[CanadaAir]

Many smaller aircraft like PC-12 are paying $100/hour starting for captains today.
$100/hour in 2023 is similar to $79/hour in 2013.

FO taking jobs at $30/hour in 2023 is similar to $23/hour in 2013.
Which is $17 US, less than the pilots at Colgan made.

Ontario minimum wage is heading to $16.50/hour in 2023, in 2013 Ontario minimum wage was close to $10.
Minimum wage has increase 60% in 10 years.
Pilot wages haven't increased, they've gone down with inflation.

Still posters here defending lower wages.

Pilots are still agreeing to take low.

Start aiming for $120/hour minimum for any captain spot, even a PC-12.
Flying an RJ, aim for $200/hour.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I’m sorry, 75K for a 705 Captain is a NEW payscale.

That is absolutely absurd. Every other company on the property in YVR is paying more than that. GONE are the days of, oh I have to do it as I want to be in YVR.

So just for comparison, I was offered $75k to fly a PC12 out of a place far cheaper to live than YVR in 2005. That's $110k in todays dollars which is reasonable IMO. Now figure the added revenue generated by a Saab and we should be looking at a ballpark of $150k. Now add a housing premium for YVR...

We have a long way to go to catch up with inflation.

Many posters on this site should read this and learn about inflation.

This industry will always push the wow factor of aviation to keep rates as low as they are.

[CanadaAir]

Companies should be paying for your deadheading time and hours waiting around at the airport.

If you fly in an aircraft, then have to wait 4 hours for the next one to arrive every hour of that wait time should be paid.
If the companies don't have a financial penalty for wasting your time, then they won't try to reduce that wasted time.

The companies are efficient with ensuring aircraft have no downtime.
They can do the same with their pilots if there is a cost for making pilots wait around for hours.

In the US, companies are paying pilots 100% of their hourly rate for deadheading

[CanadaAir]

Companies should be paying for your deadheading time and hours waiting around at the airport.

If you fly in an aircraft, then have to wait 4 hours for the next one to arrive every hour of that wait time should be paid.
If the companies don't have a financial penalty for wasting your time, then they won't try to reduce that wasted time.

The companies are efficient with ensuring aircraft have no downtime.
They can do the same with their pilots if there is a cost for making pilots wait around for hours.

In the US, companies are paying pilots 100% of their hourly rate for deadheading

Pilots should come out and support the flight attendants at their Unpaid Work Won't Fly events.
Steps forward by the flight attendants will benefit pilots who share similar issues.
Supporting one another to show management that our time isn't free to waste unpaid.

https://unpaidworkwontfly.ca/

[CanadaAir]

There’s no reason to break aviation regulations or operate at the minimum regulatory standards if your company is treating the pilots like garbage.

It’s the pilots who make the final call on safety, not the CEO.
If the aircraft has broken equipment, you don’t need to defer it. Fly only when it’s fixed.

If there is a thunderstorm nearby, no need to rush the departure out or fly close to it. Wait a few hours till it passes and the sky is blue again.

Poor visibility and fog. The pilots have to be satisfied it’s safe to takeoff or land, no need to go in & out at minimum RVR.

Freezing rain close to the airport, no need to depart.

If the crew is impacted by bad scheduling, long waits at the airport or delays, then don’t fly fatigued and worry about breaking CAR duty time limits.

Have new FOs? Don’t make them feel rushed to get out exactly on schedule.

Why risk safety or operate at minimum standards?

[CanadaAir]

Reminder to all crews to fly the plane and maintain safety and professionalism through negotiations.

Too much talk on the flight deck about unions, strikes and pay scales can distract from safety.

Last thing needed is the TSB analyzing a CVR full of trash talk.

While in the air and especially during sterile, talk about your current flight.

Talk all you want about negotiations when waiting at the airport or hotels.

If you are unhappy with the company, then don't cut corners on safety, weather and regulations. Examples in the above post.

[digits_]

Last thing needed is the TSB analyzing a CVR full of trash talk.

It would be terrible for the people on the affected flight, but I'm quite sure it would do wonders for the industry.

[CanadaAir]

Copied from another post:


Let’s hope for no accidents.

Yet be realistic.

In past decades, the average regional crew might have a FO with 3 years on type at the same company, and a captain with 6 years or more on type at the same company. For a combined 9 years on type at the same company. This added safety.

In the past, junior FO would be match to experienced training captains with 10 years or more on type at the company.

Now junior FO with no type or company experience are being matched to captains with less than 4 years on type, or even worse junior Fo with recently upgraded captains of only 2 years on type.

There’s a massive lack of experienced time on type today compared to the past, this was the experience which many crew relied on to safely prevent several major accidents from occurring. Some incredible regional and commuter crews have been recognized for their successful landings after in flight events.

Add in old aircraft with outdated avionics and autopilots, old or no GPS and half-working systems, mountain and remote flying without ATC.

Add long duty days and fatigue due to the current lack of crews.

Something small going wrong with a system could have a bad ending.

Instead of risking an accident, the management could do a small increase in fares to pay higher rates to retain their experienced pilots and encourage FOs to stay and upgrade.

[CanadaAir]

No way should a captain be taking on a junior FO, on top of deferred maintenance or poor weather flying.

Or go into bad weather with deferred maintenance, bad scheduling and fatigue.

Why go into the mountains with bad weather and a junior FO.

Or any combinations of bad weather, bad scheduling, deferred maintenance or low time on type or junior FO, lack of crew

It’s the company management and chief pilots who are at fault for setting the pilots up for accident conditions. If they can’t properly schedule or maintain the aircraft or hire experienced pilots and properly train them, or hire enough maintenance staff, then it’s the company’s fault not the PIC.

Is your under paid salary worth any risks at this point?

Regionals are desperate for captains, so they won’t fire you for not flying based on your safety decisions.

You don’t need to be on strike or in contract negotiations to take action. The pilots make the final call, so don’t go under these conditions.

[rookiepilot]

MODs.

This is a 705 airline / industry/ union thread. It belongs in the airline section, as does every other similar thread. Please move it there.

Let’s keep general for aviation topics.

Thank you.

[‘Bob’]

MODs.

This is a 705 airline / industry/ union thread. It belongs in the airline section, as does every other similar thread. Please move it there.

Let’s keep general for aviation topics.

Thank you.

No!

This affects everyone in aviation.

And it doesn’t affect you.

[rookiepilot]

MODs.

This is a 705 airline / industry/ union thread. It belongs in the airline section, as does every other similar thread. Please move it there.

Let’s keep general for aviation topics.

Thank you.

No!

This affects everyone in aviation.

And it doesn’t affect you.

I am a pilot.

So I’m not in aviation?

General is for aviation. Airplanes. Safety. Procedures.

There is an entire section labeled “airlines”. “Employment”. And others.

These often very toxic threads can go there.

[Yowdriver]

Wow rookiepilot!

That’s 3 forums in the last couple hours that you’ve pissed off and been posting nonsense to.

Good for you!