Recent WestJet ALPA video for all pilots

[Mach1]

3: I will change my mind when you give me a valid reason why you need significant raises, more so than any other group that is all asking for the same thing.

4: You haven't shown that. You've shown a general disdain for the public ("We can shut this down"). You've shown a general disdain for any opinion that doesn't match your position. You're playing like a typical right wing neo-con that is mad someone else sat down in your sandbox and asked if they could share your shovel to move things around.

5: You act like a massive increase to wages (among everything else) won't impact the average ticket buyer and only adds a few dollars. Sorry, but the math is there and you choose to ignore it. Insults are the only thing that grabs your attention sadly.

6: It's one thing to bargain for large increases when you're in a booming economy with record profits. It's another to bargain when you're coming out of a pandemic.

7: Go ahead, shut it down if you think that changes things. You've shown you don't care about public perception, nor anything other than yourselves. You could go to the table (and the public) with a reasonable proposal, like PSAC and CRA did and not have a long lasting strike or much ill will. You've chosen to be combatative and take the "We deserve Delta wages!" which really garners you no friends except in your pilot groups.

8: Go ahead, be grumpy that management pulled software access... that... let's face it... you'd use to look up who is trying to take seats to deny any "Scabs" access. That's not what's it's intended for. Good on them for shutting it down.

1: You are a horrible person.

2: See #1.

3: You have been given reasons. You choose not to understand them. However, we are not asking anyone else to accept less so we can have more. Unlike the BOD and Executives of the company. You are owed no explanation and no apology for us asking to be paid market value and neither will be given.

4: No one has shown anything of the kind towards the public. Had the company negotiated in good faith, none of this would be occurring. Blaming the pilots for the mistakes of management is akin to blaming the passengers of the Titanic for hitting an iceberg.

5: We have the numbers. You don't.

6: See daily business news of record profits at all airlines around the world. If WJ is losing money, it's not because of the pilots, but it is because of the managers.

7: Thank you for your permission. We will. Quick question for you, when I am paying my mortgage or buying groceries, how much of a "Caring for the public" discount do I get? Additionally, I hope you are paid half as much as all the other "Accountants" you know... because you care about the people you really need to lead the charge on this.

8: One single tool in a whole tool chest. Not a big deal... we will know who the scabs are and we will treat them appropriately.

Lastly, because I really want to make your whole day. How much do you make? When was your last raise? How big was that raise? How much of it did you sacrifice for public perception? How many hours a day do you work for free? How many days a month are you away from your friends and family? If you make a mistake, how many people will you kill?

You really need some professional help with your anger issues. Even if you are a company shill, and I am certain you are, you have a level of anger and hatred about you that is unhealthy. Life is not well spent being angry about what your neighbour is doing or what they own. Live your own best life and if you want to make the "big pilot" bucks, flight school awaits you. Along with huge debt, a few (thankfully not 10 anymore) years in the north or some small community, a lot of physical labour and eventually a paycut to come work at an airline where you can hopefully make enough money in the last 15 years of your career to retire. Because... accounting doesn't seem to be your forte.

[Mach1]

You're worth a 4% raise to match inflation. Nothing more. When you get that, I can't wait for you to say all the posturing, bitching and complaining, calling the general public asshats, threatening your fellow pilots worth it.

If you get more, you're giving up elsewhere.

3 1/2 week strike.

(7% loss in annual wages, so takes you quite a while to recover with your small gains)....

See you after you're done caving.

This says it all. You are clueless about the state of the industry. Air Canada is hiring as many people as we have. Several airlines are starting up around the world, and the US is slowly opening the door to Canadian pilots because they've already empties Australia. If there's a 4% raise, there won't be anyone left to turn out the lights when WestJet closes because they will have no pilots. If it is that important to the executives at WJ to maintain their "power" that they burn the place to the ground, then it's not worth working there anyway. There are nothing but options now. What you fail to grasp is that we are trying to save the company from themselves. It is particularly difficult to run any airline (the core business) without pilots. That goes for AME's, dispatchers and a few other groups within the company. And the pilots are voting with their feet, en masse. Pay now. Pay later. So, here we are trying to drag our management into the present so that the company can continue to operate. But the place is infested with you. And that will be the death of this company. You. Not us.

[accountant]

Air Canada is hiring as many as you have, and even at 85% load factor is still running a loss. Sounds like a sound business practice to me!

You are being paid at market. The canadian market. Go work in the US and get US wages. Oh wait... the doors aren't open to you to do that. Funny how that works.

Go ahead, vote with your feet, disrupt the public, give up a few weeks of wages for tiny gains that mean nothing in the big picture.

If you were trying to save the company from themselves you would have published meaningful data on why your wage requests are fair.

When WS shuts down because Onex is tired of footing the bill and can take the tax writeoff to shield gains elsewhere you will flood the market and keep your wages in the same getter.

Carry on. "Hold the Line!"

[Canadaflyer46]

Air Canada is hiring as many as you have, and even at 85% load factor is still running a loss. Sounds like a sound business practice to me!

You are being paid at market. The canadian market. Go work in the US and get US wages. Oh wait... the doors aren't open to you to do that. Funny how that works.

Go ahead, vote with your feet, disrupt the public, give up a few weeks of wages for tiny gains that mean nothing in the big picture.

If you were trying to save the company from themselves you would have published meaningful data on why your wage requests are fair.

When WS shuts down because Onex is tired of footing the bill and can take the tax writeoff to shield gains elsewhere you will flood the market and keep your wages in the same getter.

Carry on. "Hold the Line!"

I was wondering how much longer it would take for the fear mongering ‘we’re gonna shut down/sell off the airline if you want a pay rise!’ to begin.
Onex would likely not base huge business decisions on the salaries of a particular employee group. If they want rid of owning an airline, they will get rid of it. ALPA have ran the numbers and as you were told before, even Delta wages would only add on a few bucks per flight ticket (which would then be passed on to the passenger). I am fully expecting WJ management to play the ‘Onex might shut down WJ for good’ card at some point soon so thanks for the reminder. If they choose to do that, and they may well do, it has nothing to do with pilot salaries increasing to industry standard.

[accountant]

Please show me the math how Delta wages (roughly 1.5x your current top end for their top end not including an extra 40% for currency conversion) would only add "a few dollars".

I already showed you how at minimum a 10% wage increase across the board to all groups would add at minimum 2.5-3% to ticket prices ---- the overwhelming majority of flights are not under $100 to justify your so called "couple dollars" to each ticket)

Obviously you need someone like me, and not your union to do basic math for you. Raising to delta like wages would add a *significant* impact to each ticket. You've all already proven you wouldn't believe it. Numerous could be produced and audited and you still wouldn't believe them.

They have far more ancillary and other revenues in their financials than AC and WS do.

Delta alone for Q1 - 10.4 Billing Passenger revenue. 1/2 of that related to "Main Cabin", remainder is "Premium Revenue, Loyalty and Travel related services".

Other Revenue - $2.1 Billion, including 700 mil related to frequent flyer programs, close to a billion from refining.

They are playing from an entirely different playing field, capitalized entirely differently and able to *support* those wages.

Ask for Delta revenues when we're at that point. You're no where close to working for a company capable of doing that. You have a hard enough time catering food for the Premium cabin on your 737s.

[Canadaflyer46]

Please show me the math how Delta wages (roughly 1.5x your current top end for their top end not including an extra 40% for currency conversion) would only add "a few dollars".

I already showed you how at minimum a 10% wage increase across the board to all groups would add at minimum 2.5-3% to ticket prices ---- the overwhelming majority of flights are not under $100 to justify your so called "couple dollars" to each ticket)

Obviously you need someone like me, and not your union to do basic math for you. Raising to delta like wages would add a *significant* impact to each ticket. You've all already proven you wouldn't believe it. Numerous could be produced and audited and you still wouldn't believe them.

They have far more ancillary and other revenues in their financials than AC and WS do.

Delta alone for Q1 - 10.4 Billing Passenger revenue. 1/2 of that related to "Main Cabin", remainder is "Premium Revenue, Loyalty and Travel related services".

Other Revenue - $2.1 Billion, including 700 mil related to frequent flyer programs, close to a billion from refining.

They are playing from an entirely different playing field, capitalized entirely differently and able to *support* those wages.

Ask for Delta revenues when we're at that point. You're no where close to working for a company capable of doing that. You have a hard enough time catering food for the Premium cabin on your 737s.

I 100% agree with you on this. Our service level is horrendous and embarrassing. That is WJ’s problem to solve, every other airline manages it. Perhaps if the BOD didn’t keep a revolving door open of execs to come and go with huge payouts we’d be in a better spot for consistency and reliability in our product. And while they’re at it, if they’re so concerned about affordability of Canadian air travel, why not fight with as much tenacity at having AIFs/Nav Canada fees lowered as they show at fighting salary increases of their employees.

[McKinley]

Please show me the math how Delta wages (roughly 1.5x your current top end for their top end not including an extra 40% for currency conversion) would only add "a few dollars".

I already showed you how at minimum a 10% wage increase across the board to all groups would add at minimum 2.5-3% to ticket prices ---- the overwhelming majority of flights are not under $100 to justify your so called "couple dollars" to each ticket)

Obviously you need someone like me, and not your union to do basic math for you. Raising to delta like wages would add a *significant* impact to each ticket. You've all already proven you wouldn't believe it. Numerous could be produced and audited and you still wouldn't believe them.

They have far more ancillary and other revenues in their financials than AC and WS do.

Delta alone for Q1 - 10.4 Billing Passenger revenue. 1/2 of that related to "Main Cabin", remainder is "Premium Revenue, Loyalty and Travel related services".

Other Revenue - $2.1 Billion, including 700 mil related to frequent flyer programs, close to a billion from refining.

They are playing from an entirely different playing field, capitalized entirely differently and able to *support* those wages.

Ask for Delta revenues when we're at that point. You're no where close to working for a company capable of doing that. You have a hard enough time catering food for the Premium cabin on your 737s.

I 100% agree with you on this. Our service level is horrendous and embarrassing. That is WJ’s problem to solve, every other airline manages it. Perhaps if the BOD didn’t keep a revolving door open of Mc-Execs to come and go with huge payouts we’d be in a better spot for consistency and reliability in our product. And while they’re at it, if they’re so concerned about affordability of Canadian air travel, why not fight with as much tenacity at having AIFs/Nav Canada fees lowered as they show at fighting salary increases of their employees.

I actually agree on this…Compensation packages for ATC/ Nav Canada employees is wild.

Also the cost, vs service is out of touch..

With that said, good luck at changing that system.

Taking ownership in our companies / industry is important… we’re lucky to work in this profession with the working conditions and benefits we have. Why not focus on the good we have opposed to the negative ?

[rookiepilot]

Accountant:

I’m a business guy myself, not a professional pilot, but hit the road. Seriously.

You’re not welcome here.

I despise everything I’ve read about Onex and what they have done to WJ.

I won’t fly your airline at any price. Ever.

I think you despise both your customers and employees

[mmm...bacon]

The average salary is 82,000 ( VERY reasonable) given that that flying is an unskilled labor job. it looks like the top of the pile is around 200-300,000.

We aren’t police officers, psychologists, brain surgeons, professors, paramedics, air traffic controllers doctors, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, tree fallers or oil and gas workers as much as we want to be. Our jobs are largely automated, require ZERO skill, no university, no IQ test, zero trade school. Nada.

And yes, I’m aware we require flight training. To this I say, training can be done in a very short time period and largely everyone passes..

Unskilled? No, dude, that's ditch-diggers, 7-11 Clerks and the like. i won't dispute that we might be labourers (but doesn't eveyone swap their time and labour for money, in the long run?) but we are most certainly not unskilled..

Correct, we're pilots, and we *should* be mentioned in the same breath as all of those other careers that you've mentioned (oil and gas workers? You mean rig-pigs??). Sure, 'everyone passes' training at a flight school, but then the culling of the herd begins: people who are so anti-social or lack the people skills to work well with others; people who can fly an aeroplane, but lack the finesse to do so smoothly, lack the CPU power to do so intelligently, or lack the temperament to do so calmly; people who can't/won't study hard enough to learn and integrate SOPs, systems or new information; people who, for whatever reason, have convinced a supervisor/manager somewhere along the line that they are not suited to flying an aeroplane for said manager..
And so, who are you left with? Well, at the end, it would seem to me that you're getting a highly trained, skilled, and experienced, technologically adept person who is a benefit to any company - not simply a cost on a balance sheet. Although I'm not at WJ, I *think* that's what the pilots there are on about...

[Mach1]

Air Canada is hiring as many as you have, and even at 85% load factor is still running a loss. Sounds like a sound business practice to me!

You are being paid at market. The canadian market. Go work in the US and get US wages. Oh wait... the doors aren't open to you to do that. Funny how that works.

Go ahead, vote with your feet, disrupt the public, give up a few weeks of wages for tiny gains that mean nothing in the big picture.

If you were trying to save the company from themselves you would have published meaningful data on why your wage requests are fair.

When WS shuts down because Onex is tired of footing the bill and can take the tax writeoff to shield gains elsewhere you will flood the market and keep your wages in the same getter.

Carry on. "Hold the Line!"

Deflect. Avoid. Attack. The tools of a sociopath, a troll and management megaphones.... No one here takes you seriously. You are just entertainment for the day because you are incapable of having a conversation.

@#$! the Canadian market. I am worth not one penny less than any other pilot in the world. Go away now.

[flyinhigh]

I already showed you how at minimum a 10% wage increase across the board to all groups would add at minimum 2.5-3% to ticket prices

Can confirm that this is a scared manager. I heard this line numerous times fromWestjet management the last round of negotiations, while I was in the room.

Apparently they think that if you pay one group X, another group automatically gets the same.

[quote=McKinley post_id=<a href="tel:1257469">1257469</a> time=<a href="tel:1684038525">1684038525</a> user_id=50524]
The average salary is 82,000 ( VERY reasonable) given that that flying is an unskilled labor job. it looks like the top of the pile is around 200-300,000.

We aren’t police officers, psychologists, brain surgeons, professors, paramedics, air traffic controllers doctors, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, tree fallers or oil and gas workers as much as we want to be. Our jobs are largely automated, require ZERO skill, no university, no IQ test, zero trade school. Nada.

And yes, I’m aware we require flight training. To this I say, training can be done in a very short time period and largely everyone passes..

[/quote]

Seriously, you think someone who goes through training every 6 months, 2.5 month training courses, and spent years perfecting their craft is worth less than someone with a chain saw (guess what, I was in logging it wasn’t hard).

[goingnowherefast]

The wealth gap is growing. Executive salary is significantly higher in relation to the front line worker than it used to be. Does an airline CEO really need to make 100x more than an airline pilot? Does a grocery store CEO really need to make 250x more than a stock boy? Does an oil company CEO need to make 600x more than a gas station clerk?

Worker productivity in relation to their salary is at an all time high. How many seats in a 737-200 vs a 737-8? Which one burns more fuel? WJ pilots today fly more passengers for less total cost than they did at the beginning, or even 10 years ago. They are simply more productive. If I'm worth more to the company, than pay me more?

Organized labour everywhere is out to correct those issues. ALPA, PSAC, etc. WJ pilots win big, carpenter's unions look for similar percentage gains, grocery store clerk unions look for the same percentage gains. Hell, low level management often has their pay loosely tied to the workers they manage. Rising tide floats all boats, some just take a little longer to get off the bottom.

[McKinley]

The wealth gap is growing. Executive salary is significantly higher in relation to the front line worker than it used to be. Does an airline CEO really need to make 100x more than an airline pilot? Does a grocery store CEO really need to make 250x more than a stock boy? Does an oil company CEO need to make 600x more than a gas station clerk?

Worker productivity in relation to their salary is at an all time high. How many seats in a 737-200 vs a 737-8? Which one burns more fuel? WJ pilots today fly more passengers for less total cost than they did at the beginning, or even 10 years ago. They are simply more productive. If I'm worth more to the company, than pay me more?

Organized labour everywhere is out to correct those issues. ALPA, PSAC, etc. WJ pilots win big, carpenter's unions look for similar percentage gains, grocery store clerk unions look for the same percentage gains. Hell, low level management often has their pay loosely tied to the workers they manage. Rising tide floats all boats, some just take a little longer to get off the bottom.

Yes. However to demand a pay increase we need to demonstrate being deserving of that raise.

Simply showing up is not enough.

[altiplano]

Demonstrating yourself as "deserving" means shit.

You could be the most productive pilot the ever was, have a superpower that cut fuel burns and boosted payload and these executives would just use you up.

As had been stated, we are more productive than ever as group, computerized rostering, lighter aircraft, carrying more people, more payload, faster, further, safer, and we are paid less in terms of comparative and absolute inflation adjusted wages.

You don't deserve it. You know your worth. You demand it.

That's all there is to it.

[McKinley]

Demonstrating yourself as "deserving" means shit.

You could be the most productive pilot the ever was, have a superpower that cut fuel burns and boosted payload and these executives would just use you up.

As had been stated, we are more productive than ever as group, computerized rostering, lighter aircraft, carrying more people, more payload, faster, further, safer, and we are paid less in terms of comparative and absolute inflation adjusted wages.

You don't deserve it. You know your worth. You demand it.

That's all there is to it.

What do you view as a reasonable salary ?

The flip side : increased automation, decreased duty times, employee benefits, increased safety, decreased days worked, decreased experience in the flight deck, decreased educational requirements. ( pilots are largely uneducated - they don’t require education such as Degrees )

[ant_321]

Demonstrating yourself as "deserving" means shit.

You could be the most productive pilot the ever was, have a superpower that cut fuel burns and boosted payload and these executives would just use you up.

As had been stated, we are more productive than ever as group, computerized rostering, lighter aircraft, carrying more people, more payload, faster, further, safer, and we are paid less in terms of comparative and absolute inflation adjusted wages.

You don't deserve it. You know your worth. You demand it.

That's all there is to it.

What do you view as a reasonable salary ?

The flip side : increased automation, decreased duty times, employee benefits, increased safety, decreased days worked, decreased experience in the flight deck, decreased educational requirements. ( pilots are largely uneducated - they don’t require education such as Degrees )

$500. Is that the answer you’re looking for? Education often is a terrible indication of income. Some of the richest people in the world didn’t go to university. I have a friend who can hardly write his name and he made $200k last year working in mining. I get it. You’re a disgruntled regional pilot who’s career hasn’t gone how you thought it should so now you see the top earners in the industry as overpaid bus drivers because you couldn’t cut it.

[rookiepilot]

Education often is a terrible indication of income. Some of the richest people in the world didn’t go to university. I have a friend who can hardly write his name and he made $200k last year working in mining.

These true life examples sure drive a lot of people nuts who value their degrees and titles.

[accountant]

Lol so many disgruntled pilots who instead of using facts just called names.

Told you don’t deserve a raise. All you need to do is show me why economically within The financials you need significant raises. Our market doesn’t support it. I’ve shown you and read airline financials and torn them apart in far more detail than I’ve listed.

Baseline you deserve 4pct. Anything more under current economics makes no sense financially.

[cdnavater]

McKinley, I don’t get you, here below you are looking at leaving your regional career for an “alternate” profession, whatever that is. I presume it’s due to a lack of satisfaction in both job and salary, here we have a group who gets to lead the charge and you are trying to keep them down instead of cheering them on, I don’t get it.
You said some offensive things about the career many on here chose to pursue, but if it were that simple to achieve, no skill required, which is a whole other debate given I see what unskilled pilots are like to train, but seriously if they could just turn on the tap and fill those seats, don’t you think they would have instead of paying 500,000 US to their pilots.
You are correct, I don’t appreciate pilots who just show up, this is the only profession that requires the level of training and constant evaluation of your level of fitness, both physical and ability to do the job. If you don’t show up prepared for your recurrent training, you are facing some time off, if you don’t perform well again you could face a review board, show up unprepared often enough it will affect your employment, so yah, just showing up is not enough.
I used to fly with a guy, who I had enormous respect for, on the overnights, I would often encounter him on a bench reading his AOM, he would downplay it but he is a big reason I joined training, a true professional.
Respectfully though, if you are not here to improve the career, please keep your thoughts to yourself, good luck!

I’m looking at switching careers gradually. I’m hoping to use my existing career at a regional as a means to leave.

It looks like I’ll need to take a month or so off to work in the field while I’m being licensed in my alternate profession.

Work in my alternate profession is typically 6 on 1 off-0800-1900. It can be as much as 7 days on for the duration of the 25 -30 days.

This would mean taking 25 ish days off (unpaid) here and there while I work contracts.

Is there any 705 carrier that would accommodate this?

Thanks in advance.

[PositiveRate27]

Employee groups aren’t paid what they are worth, they are paid what they negotiate. What they are able to negotiate is a combination of leverage and resolve. We’ve never seen this level of leverage in this country, nor have we seen this amount of unity. This is why you seem to think the wages in the USA are outlandish but the airlines there are willing to pay them. Air Canada pilots were offered a large raise for flat pay and 3% for the rest of the pilot group outside of bargaining and they rejected the MOA at 80%. WestJet pilots have authorized a strike vote at 93%. Do you think they would back down for a 4% raise?

Several pieces of leverage may change but right now the pilots are in the driver seat. Comparators to other airlines, other industry’s or other professions are irrelevant. WestJet has to pay up to keep its most vital workforce. Worse case scenario, WestJet pilots make no gains and are still able to go to AC and likely have better careers than they have now. They have absolutely nothing to lose. No bucks? No Buck Rogers.

What management and accountants have to lose is a completely different story.

[lostaviator]

Lol so many disgruntled pilots who instead of using facts just called names.

Told you don’t deserve a raise. All you need to do is show me why economically within The financials you need significant raises. Our market doesn’t support it. I’ve shown you and read airline financials and torn them apart in far more detail than I’ve listed.

Baseline you deserve 4pct. Anything more under current economics makes no sense financially.

Maybe you should spend some timing tearing inflation data apart because 4% doesn't even begin to cover our real wage decrease since the beginning of 2021. Inflation has been above 4% for the last 20 months.

[cdnavater]

Lol so many disgruntled pilots who instead of using facts just called names.

Told you don’t deserve a raise. All you need to do is show me why economically within The financials you need significant raises. Our market doesn’t support it. I’ve shown you and read airline financials and torn them apart in far more detail than I’ve listed.

Baseline you deserve 4pct. Anything more under current economics makes no sense financially.

You make it sound like cheap airfare is a right, it’s not! Whatever the increase is, it’s not our problem, the people who run the numbers will have to figure out how to make money, that’s your department.
There was a restaurant charging 65.00 per head for Mothers Day brunch, as ridiculous as that is, the place was full, so people who want to fly will either find the money or they won’t but that not really our problem unless they stop travelling, the we renegotiate from a much higher starting point.don’t get me wrong, I think the US wages are a house of cards waiting to fall, what come from the ashes is anyone’s guess but I don’t believe WJ pilots are holding out for par, it’s a starting point.
Your PSAC example, weren’t they asking for a total increase of in the 30-40%, not just in wages.
If fuel cost goes up 10%, do the fares go up to offset, yes!
As to why we(pilots) are looking for meaningful increases, it’s supply and demand, that is it, nothing else. We(pilots) are not worth anymore than they are willing to pay and us to accept, if you want some answer, that is it.
If they can find a way to run an airline without us, we could always become accountants, seems easy, just make up some arbitrary numbers and try to sell them to willing parties.

[altiplano]

Demonstrating yourself as "deserving" means shit.

You could be the most productive pilot the ever was, have a superpower that cut fuel burns and boosted payload and these executives would just use you up.

As had been stated, we are more productive than ever as group, computerized rostering, lighter aircraft, carrying more people, more payload, faster, further, safer, and we are paid less in terms of comparative and absolute inflation adjusted wages.

You don't deserve it. You know your worth. You demand it.

That's all there is to it.

What do you view as a reasonable salary ?

The flip side : increased automation, decreased duty times, employee benefits, increased safety, decreased days worked, decreased experience in the flight deck, decreased educational requirements. ( pilots are largely uneducated - they don’t require education such as Degrees )

Reasonable doesn't exist.

Your "flip side" is all fallacy and untruths.

[lostaviator]

Lol so many disgruntled pilots who instead of using facts just called names.

Told you don’t deserve a raise. All you need to do is show me why economically within The financials you need significant raises. Our market doesn’t support it. I’ve shown you and read airline financials and torn them apart in far more detail than I’ve listed.

Baseline you deserve 4pct. Anything more under current economics makes no sense financially.

You make it sound like cheap airfare is a right, it’s not! Whatever the increase is, it’s not our problem, the people who run the numbers will have to figure out how to make money, that’s your department.
There was a restaurant charging 65.00 per head for Mothers Day brunch, as ridiculous as that is, the place was full, so people who want to fly will either find the money or they won’t but that not really our problem unless they stop travelling, the we renegotiate from a much higher starting point.don’t get me wrong, I think the US wages are a house of cards waiting to fall, what come from the ashes is anyone’s guess but I don’t believe WJ pilots are holding out for par, it’s a starting point.
Your PSAC example, weren’t they asking for a total increase of in the 30-40%, not just in wages.
If fuel cost goes up 10%, do the fares go up to offset, yes!
As to why we(pilots) are looking for meaningful increases, it’s supply and demand, that is it, nothing else. We(pilots) are not worth anymore than they are willing to pay and us to accept, if you want some answer, that is it.
If they can find a way to run an airline without us, we could always become accountants, seems easy, just make up some arbitrary numbers and try to sell them to willing parties.

+1

It is time people recognize that air travel is CHEAP. Fares have been held down on the backs of employees in this country for TOO LONG.

This race to the bottom is not working. For any airline. It's great that Flair is charging less than a bus company but they aren't making their bill payments!

[rookiepilot]

There was a restaurant charging 65.00 per head for Mothers Day brunch, as ridiculous as that is, the place was full,

Why is it ridiculous, when their costs have gone bananas and every restaurant got hammered during covid? Thats the price, why shouldn’t they max out what they can get on a holiday? Eating out cheap ain’t a right, either, and there is always McDonald’s.

As I said, I support the right to strike, to aggressively negotiate, that goes for all of us, aviation or not.

I’m renovating now, big one, long delayed, you wouldn’t believe the costs, but its my choice…..