This forum is for non aviation related topics, political debate, random thoughts, and everything else that just doesn't seem to fit in the normal forums. ALL FORUM RULES STILL APPLY.
Just once I'd like to see a politician actually set out a real agenda and talk about what they want to do and what their vision for the country is. Take a stand instead of attacking the other parties and saying generic things that straddle the fence. I will vote for someone even if I disagree on some points if I believe that person will represent me and my fellow constituents and use their own common sense and judgement to make decisions. We supposedly live in a democratic country but our elected representatives are told how to vote instead of being able to be a voice for the people who voted them in. In my opinion all votes in parliament should be free votes - isnt that what democracy is?
Personally I'm leaning towards the Green party but I am definitely fed up with the arrogance of the Liberals.
Canada is resting on its laurels of 50 years ago. We are no longer the international neighbour that we once we're nor are we as respected as we once were. There is no sense of national pride, no commonality from coast to coast. I'd like to see someone step up and say this is where I see Canada in 5, 10, 20 years, this is where I see Canada stacking up against the other countries in the world in technology, sport, humanity, social services, health care, education etc.
I recently read an interesting article about the money in Alberta...it may even have been on the forum here. It said that Alberta should take its wealth and strive to be the leader in education and health care etc in all of North America. Canada as a whole needs a national vision to bring the people together. end of speech
After the election aren't we going to have a minority government whoever gets in? What will be the advantage over what we have now? If we have a government that can't push through the changes that will make a difference we will be drifting down the middle of the road, sitting on the fence and have a foot in both camps. Three things that are not easy to do at the same time!
scubasteve wrote:We supposedly live in a democratic country but our elected representatives are told how to vote instead of being able to be a voice for the people who voted them in. In my opinion all votes in parliament should be free votes - isnt that what democracy is?
You can vote for me once I get in touch with Gilles himself and he lets me run the first Bloc ticket out of Quebec.. =)
ISTP don't waste your vote. We haven't had a different gov in a donkeys years. The old tories are gone and we need to give the new guys a chance. PLEASE!!!!!
Stats have proven a lonnnnnng time ago that the vast majority of immigrants will vote Liberal. For that to change, those immgrants have to be real pissed-off at somebody. Jacques Parizeau knows all about the immigrant vote in Quebec and was dumb enough to say so after the last separation vote. The biggest voting block in Canada has always been Quebec and Ontario. The "Golden Triangle" has the vast majority of immgrants in Canada, followed by Quebec. There are 107 seats alone in the "Golden Triangle" and to figure out if you count or not in the west, count up the total number of seats in the west that are needed JUST to off-set those 107 seats in the "Trangle". THAT'S why you don't count folks. The ONLY time that you have ever counted for anything on election night is when the vote was "split" between Ontario and Quebec and THEN your vote could "make or break" who came into power. UNTIL you change all that, you're just spectators on election night and once you find out the results of the polls in Kenora/Rainy River, you then know who won the elction and can go to bed or change the TV channel. Let Ontario and Quebec "split" the vote and then as stated, you better stay tuned. It's been like that for the last 60 years. The ONLY thing that will ever change all that is if there is an elected Senate, with 2-3 Senators elected from each province. That won't happen because those that rule in Ottawa from ANY Party aren't about to "slit their own throats" and share power with any elected Senate. That would be a political version of "Hari Kari".
The vote'll be split in Quebec all right. I'm betting the Libranos will not take a single Francophone seat in Quebec. That'll leave 'em a dozen or so seats in Montreal, a couple in what's called the Ouatouais region east of Ottawa and a couple in the Eastern Townships, a maximum of between seventeen and twenty seats total. The Bloc will get the rest.
Preston Manning had an op-ed piece in the Globe and Mail last week. Here's a couple of paragraphs:
Quote
"Does anyone still think the Liberal party of Canada can possibly represent Canada and federalism with honesty and integrity in the next electoral or referendum contest with the Quebec sovereignists? Do the leaders and voters of Atlantic Canada and Ontario not sense the danger of the separatist explosion that will occur in Quebec if, given the revelations of the Gomery inquiry, a Liberal administration is re-elected in Ottawa?"
"Do the leaders and voters of Atlantic Canada and Ontario not sense the nature of the quasi-separatist explosion that will occur in the West, especially Alberta, if a corruption-tainted Liberal administration is re-elected, notwithstanding the Gomery revelations?"
End quote.
On another thread some weeks ago, I opined that the only thing preventing a very real separatist threat in the West was the lack of a charismatic leader to pull together those people who believe the West is getting shafted.
Does anyone remember when Manning formed the Reform Party? His slogan was "The West wants in." If someone comes down the pike with the slogan "The West wants out" hang on to your shorts. Unlike Quebec, with their sovereignity-association and a question two paragraphs long that no-one understands, the Western guys won't fiddle-arse and fool-fart around. Here's what Manning said in his article:
Quote:
"So-called Western alienation is just one charismatic leader away from full-blown Western separatism. This time, there is no Reform Party to redirect that anger and resentment into federalist channels, so who will respond effectively to the separatist sentiments?"
End quote.
Does anybody think the answer to Preston Manning's last question is the Liberal Party of Canada?
We will have the election and everyone will get a chance to vote. What we will have next morning will be a carbon-copy of what we have now even if the Conservatives form the next minority government.
As far as Quebec "going down the road", then the day that it happens that ANY part of Canada decides to leave and Canadians do not literally fight to keep their country intact....that will be the day that I leave this country for elsewhere. England, France, the USA and many other countries have had civil wars over the same thing because some part wanted and legally voted to separate. They stood up and said "there's no interior force nor exterior force that will be allowed to break-up and divide our nation. Disagree with us all you want, but we will stand and defend". There once was a guy by the name of Louis Riel who tried the same thing and with some valid reasons for doing so and somebody by the name of John A. MacDonald and the British Crown said "Like Hell you will". We've been attacked once from the outside and on that occasion the Brits saved our butts. We fought for them in the Boer War, WW1 and WW2 and no foreign armies attacked our mainland nor marched down our streets....we went and fought for the "Motherland" on all those occasions and NOT because we were attacked on Canadian soil. IF we as Canadians are not willing to do the same for our own country, then we don't deserve to exist as a nation........and at that point, I'll not associate with a bunch of "loosers" any further. Sadly, I have the feeling that there are few Canadians who think and believe as I do. I therefore hope that I am not alive to see it happen because it will be a true insult to all those Canadians who came before me and who fought and toiled to make this a nation......and a large bunch of them were French Canadians also.
England, France, the USA and many other countries have had civil wars over the same thing because some part wanted and legally voted to separate. They stood up and said "there's no interior force nor exterior force that will be allowed to break-up and divide our nation.
Yugoslavia had a nice little civil war too. Czechoslovakia just had a vote and called it quits. Where would you have perfered to spend the last 15 years?
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"Thats what the Internet is for stupid. Slandering others anonymously."
Lh, The problem with most Canadians, is that they won't stand up to seperatists. As far as I am concerned, they can have all the referendums they want. It doesn't mean a damn thing. For one, the land in Quebec, the west, Ont, maritimes all belong to Canadians, and I'll be dammed if these punks think they are going to take it away. Ottawa has been appeasing quebec for years, and in turn they keep wanting more.
As far as Quebec "going down the road...Sadly, I have the feeling that there are few Canadians who think and believe as I do. I therefore hope that I am not alive to see it happen because it will be a true insult to all those Canadians who came before me and who fought and toiled to make this a nation......and a large bunch of them were French Canadians also.
Hear, Hear! Sign me up!.
I'm an immigrant here, and darn proud to be Canadian. When we came here, my family had the choice of several countries: US, Can, Oz, NZ but we chose one...Canada. It really pi$$es me off to hear the whining from separatist groups about what a raw deal they are getting here - all in the interest of getting a 'better' deal from the feds..
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Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Well, that election is now damn close. We have a motion of non-confidence tabled by the Conservatives today, and it will be voted on the 28th. Only a last minute turnabout by the Liberals can save them now.
Gentlemen, the problems concerning Quebec were instituted by the Brits during the American Revolutionary War and were concessions given to them to make sure they didn't side with the Colonies. They relented some more during the War of 1812 and for the same reasons. They also signed Treaties with Canada's native population and all these understandings and agreements were passed-on to us. So, it's like your mother signed legal documents with somebody before you were born and when you turn 18, she relieved of all those obligations and you now have to honour them, even though you had no say or input into their wording.
Nightshiftzombie ----- I'll take your statement to mean that you are one of those Canadians who would stand around and watch your country break-up. I believe that your line of thinking represents the majority of Canadians who believe that it can't or won't happen and if it did, they ain't fighting to keep it one. Those Canadians need to pay a visit to their local Legion sometime and run that idea by a bunch of old farts and watch them bristle at that idea. Some of them will also be French Canadian by the way. Remember friend, if I can just take away your private property without a fight, then you didn't care much for it in the first place then.
I'd say that if a Majority of people from a given area want to call it quits, and vote that way in a referendum, you have to let them go. You can fight all you want in the political arena, but once you lose you can't change the rules. Do you figure Canada would be a better country if the day after a Quebec referendum Ottawa sent in the Army and had the RCMP arrest every PQ member they can find.
Personally I figure Canada has about 15-20 years left at the rate things are going. Look at most of the Preimers, its like they are having a competition over who is the "Biggest Bitch in Confederation". So I'd say if there is a Canada in 20 years its gonna be Ontario only.
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"Thats what the Internet is for stupid. Slandering others anonymously."
Nightshiftzombie -----as stated before, I consider your statements and attitude to be typically Canadian and I'm neither surprised nor shocked.
Rules? What Rule Book are you referring to? We ain't discussing a card game or some sporting event. Name me a country anywhere in the world where it's written in their Constitution that should one part wish to secede from the rest against their wishes, they are free to do so? We're talking about the break-up of a nation by a minority percentage of that nation and there ain't no Penalty Box involved either. The" winner is the one standing-up and the looser is the one laying down" when it comes to somebody attempting to destroy this great nation of mine.
We're talking about the break-up of a nation by a minority percentage of that nation and there ain't no Penalty Box involved either. The" winner is the one standing-up and the looser is the one laying down" when it comes to somebody attempting to destroy this great nation of mine.
So we are a democratic country until we get a result we don't like. Send in the Tanks! If Canada ends up Iraq, Yugoslavia or Russia. (Using force to enslave people) It doesn't deserve to exist.
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"Thats what the Internet is for stupid. Slandering others anonymously."
I think I'm going to be alittle nervous to go to QC in January if there is an election especially if I see seperatist signs and stuff. Also, because I hear they are not very nice (courteous) to Tourists/visitors and that is not good for business. LH, I don't agree with seperatists at all and you're right they/we could learn alot from other countries. I don't think they have any grounds to declare themselves to be seperate, this is not their Land. And I don't think they have it so bad, aren't they the ones that benefitted from sponsorship?
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''Save Our Troops let them leave Afghanistan''. - Neil Osborne and a few friends
Nightshiftzombie -------the Canadian Military forcing anyone to do anything in Quebec or any other part of Canada is the LAST thing I want to see. I've seen all the horrors of war and you better believe that's way down farther on my list than a whole bunch of others, but stand by and offer token resistance to the break up of the country I call home..........not a chance.
If one wants to understand ONE of the areas where all this crap started, then grab a history book from any of the schools in Quebec that deals with Canadian history and you'll get your eyes opened up real wide. At that point you'll be like me and understand why some supposedly educated Quebecois will tell you that the Queen of England owns Canada as part of HER private property and that Canada pays her $15M/year as rent on that property. Tell them they are crazy and you get reminded that the Queen's head is on many of our coins and "Royal" this and "Royal" that is all over the place. If we're separate then how come we have all that? If I beleived all that crap and lived in Quebec, then I'd join the Separatiste Partie also.
Chantal ------ if your looking for crooked politicians, then don't stop with Quebec because we got a whole bunch of other ones all across Canada in all Parties and at the Municipal, Provincial and Federal levels. Unfortunately, the PM of this country has to be bi-lingual and therefore many have come from Quebec. As any PM does, they surround themselves with those that helped them to gain power and that means most of them are going to be from Quebec in most cases. Therefore when "the fecal matter hits the oscillating air conditioner", many Quebecers will be found with their hands in the till. Also see how far you'll get in the Federal Civil Service, the RCMP or thre CAF WITHOUT the ability to speak both languages. Expect to be invited out to Orleans, Ont to learn French before you get too far up that ladder....regardless of your abilities otherwise. Don't want to go?.....then you just shot your leg off.
LH wrote:We will have the election and everyone will get a chance to vote. What we will have next morning will be a carbon-copy of what we have now even if the Conservatives form the next minority government.
LH, This situation is not right and should not be allowed in light of all the scams and criminal activities that went on. Also think of the suffering this has caused, if we think about it this way than we can sue them and kick them out. I'm scared of what will happen after they are gone but hopefully there is better government.
What do you think of Preston Mannings comments? I think he's just trying to tell the rest of Canada there is a real danger of western seperatism and that is just normal political behaviour, isn't it? I wish it is not true, but I must be ignorant too.
I read something that might be interesting to you, apparently Belinda Stronach did a survey on a website, in TO, asking what people's biggest concern was in the riding and 83.6% said it was ethics in government and then the survey suddenly disappeared HA HA HA
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''Save Our Troops let them leave Afghanistan''. - Neil Osborne and a few friends
Chantal------ if you check back on your Canadian political history, you'll find out than Adscam is only one of a long list of corruption scams that have taken place in Canadian political history. Even old John A. MaDonald was involved in a "cliff-hangar" and it drove him from Office. ALL politcial parties have been involved in this kind of crap at one time and on both sides of the border also. I'm not defending the Liberals at all, but first one has to put measures in place to prevent such goings on and one can't just go and elect a different Party to clean up the mess because they'll just do the exact same thing themselves eventually. Even when you have measures in place to prevent it, there'll be someone that will find another way to circumvent a rule. How's that go?........Power corrupts.
Western separation has always been there and isn't anything really new. It just pumps-up in volume every once in a while after come Federal contract gets awarded to an eastern company ot the like. I'm not dismissing it, but the Americans have the same problem. Ask anyone in the deep South about where Federal government contracts mopst often go and they'll tell you that the politcians give them out where the votes are...... the populated east coast States and California. If I'm a politician in Canada and there's 107 seats to be had in the "Golden Triangle" then that's where I'm giving most of my attention. If there's any "crumbs" left, then I'll parcel out some of those to ALL the western provinces. If they don't like it, they can go pound sand up their asses.
Belinda Stronach's survey? Ten years from now those same people will have a hard time remembering whether it was a Liberal government that they were made at or a Conservative one. Canadians, by and large, have REAL short memories. We want the Liberals out right now and at one time, not too long ago, the most detested man in Canada was Brian Mulroney. Pierre Trudeau held that title also for a while and old John Diefenbaker held that title after he cancelled the Arrow and 25,000 people were laid-off within a WEEK......... and HE was a westerner from SK. You could put an Inuit from Inuvik into power as the PM and you still better look out. Like I said, sometimes many of us forget what went before.
(I just got up)
