AME Training

[klimman123]

I'm thinking about making a side step in my career and go learn how to turn some wrenches. So I would like to get some suggestions about cources and programs availablle. Or even referals for schools that offer them. Perhaps a structures, interiors, avionics etc.... I really don't have a clue. I'd like to keep flying during the summer and do the training during my off season. Any ideas would be great. Cheers

[newsetof wrenches]

Im curently a student at SAIT in Calgary in there AME program, and I would highly recommend it. The instructors are great and the NEW Art Smith center (our campus) is state of the art. Check it out http://www.sait.ab.ca/flash.htm

[buck82]

Give Northern Lights College in Dawson Creek a try. Some people complain about it being up north.. truth is you're not that far up north, class size is reasonalble, good instructors, cost of living is VERY CHEAP, tuition is heavily subsidized, and best of all it is an intensive 16month course - with two months off in summer. Most other schools last for a full two years.

It has a good reputation with many of the Northern B.C./Alberta commercial operators, making it realistics to get a job afterwards. If not flying then certainly one turning wrenches.

Best of luck

[Sparks]

Ok, am also looking at this choice at present. I'm aiming for the AME (E) qualification and would either be headed for Kelowna (BCIT) or Dawson Creek (NLC).

From what I can gather, the Northern Lights course is more generalist but is well regarded and of shorter duration, with the same credit from TC for months worked.

The BCIT course would also require me to do an Electronics foundation as a precursor (which given I have little experience in the field would seem sensible) although this adds, in effect, another year to the training. This is, however, a dedicated (E) course.

I see BCIT gets some bad press on this board from time to time but presumably some of it is luck of the draw with regard to instructors and their industry contacts?

Any thoughts?

Cheers, Sp.

[buck82]

Just remember, at BCIT your cost of living will be through the roof and you'll be spending a full couple of years there.

Whats going to get you a job in the end will be who you know and how ambitious you are, rather than the school

[rotorhead350]

Stevenson Aviation(Red River College) in Portage La Prairie, Manitoba offers a good course. It is actually a true 4 year apprenticeship program. Basically you find an employer willing to take you on and train you and then go to do your in-school portion for 9 weeks every year. You collect EI while in school, as well the Manitoba government gives you $100/week for living expenses while there. You also write your Transport Canada exams at the end of each term, and then all you have to write at the end is CARS. They also offer an Intro course that runs for 4 months for guys wanting to do the 4 year apprenticeship thing but don't have a job yet. Gives you a lot of the basics to help you get the first job. The wWinnipeg campus also offers the 2 year diploma course as well...............rotorhead350

[sar]

I was also looking into side stepping my training and doing my M or E licence,I have been looking into BCIT, anyone have any suggestions on a good place to train, I was thinking for sept 06

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

Avoid SAIT. Regardless of what the Dean or any of the instructors tell you, that place is just another puppy mill and the quality of apprenti coming out of there keeps getting worse. New facility? yep. Nice equipment kicking around the school? absolutely, can't think of a better equipped college. Curriculum? garbage, it meets the TC requirement, and it stops there. They meet the TC requirement so who cares about teaching them stuff that they will actually use in thier careers. You will have a bunch of nice equipment to LOOK at, but most of your time is spent in the books learning to memorize crap you will never need to know, and it shows when you end up on the first job site when compared to others entering the field from any other college that actually get hands-on training and use the machines in thier hangars to learn. As a SAIT alumni, I was dragged through realizing I was poorly educated (graduated SAIT with honors and made the Dean's list BTW), and as an engineer I have grown to hate hearing the DOM say "we hired an apprentice, he graduated from SAIT". My employer tries to find apprentices that did NOT graduate from SAIT, 'nuff said. Sorry newsetof wrenches, but you will find this out for yourself within the next few years if you try to find reputable employment as an apprentice. There are always companies out west willing to take on puppies for grunt labour at shat wages.

[KKboy]

I think any institution is bad if your attitude is wrong at the time.
SAIT has one of the oldest and in my opinion best courses available.

If you approach it more like a university where the emphasis is on the student wanting to study and less like a high school. You will do better.

Don't underestimate the value of a fully established and equipped school.
Kiss my TCAS is out of line with some of the statements he makes and anyone who knows what they need to know therefore will not memorize things they think they do not need to know should get into the dune buggy business.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

anyone who knows what they need to know therefore will not memorize things they think they do not need to know should get into the dune buggy business.

Here, have some punctuation: .;,?!`"
Obviously if you believe what I think you are saying, you have not encountered the curriculum there in some time. Some things there have changed since I graduated, some for the better and some for the worse, but I still feel there is a long way to go to meet the caliber of grads coming from other colleges.

[goldeneagle_53]

if you are not to do this as a main profession you should not mention this to your future apprenticeship employers. Just went through the same hoops and for whatever reason there seems to be a lot of resentment towards people who simply just want to go out and get their license and then move on to the next step of their plan. Other than that I think learning it can be a rewarding trade if you are willing to trade a life with a (more than) fulltime profession. Fixing planes can be fun if you have no jerk as a supervisor and it is always good to have some reserve professions up your sleeve in case you want to relocate. i think go and get it but watch out about your health and main focus in your professional courier. There is a lot of flying done in the north, so give the Buffalo School of Aviation, Yellowknife, NWT, a call. Jobs are almost guaranteed for the ones that manage to finish it.

[bodiddly]

I attended Confederation College's 2 year Aircraft Maintenance Technician program in Thunder Bay, Ontario and found it to be very good. The staff is great, tuition is reasonable, and the cost of living in Thunder Bay isn't that bad. This course covers all bases and in 2007 they will be offering a 1 year Avionics program.

[knucklesdragon]

i think it doesn't matter on which school a person goes to but which one is most convient for that person. i personally have worked with people who graduated from schools from the east to west coast and with people who have completed the ics course. The result is how you applied this knowledge, how you carry out your work, and the most imporant listening to your engineers. [/img]

[knucklesdragon]

i think it doesn't matter on which school a person goes to but which one is most convient for that person. i personally have worked with people who graduated from schools from the east to west coast and with people who have completed the ics course. The result is how you applied this knowledge, how you carry out your work, and the most imporant listening to your engineers.

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

I agree it's irrelevant which school you go to. They'll all pretty much fill you up with trivia. 70 % of what you learn you'll forget 3 months after graduating (if your memory is exceptionally good). If you really must do this, go to the most convenient one for you.

In response to the original post I've known a few pilots take the AME course. Perhaps 8 or 10. I only know one who didn't immediately go back to flying or something else right after graduating. So why waste money going back to school? You'll learn more volunteering to help on the floor for a month during slow times at an AMO than you will in an entire course. It'll also be a lot cheaper in the long run.

This would also give you a chance to really know the AME's. By this I mean I've seen high school kids and others come into places I've worked and ask what the job is like. An amazing number of AME's will tell them how marvellous it is and how interesting the job is. The same guys will, as soon as they leave, spend the rest of the day complaining about the usual AME working conditions: mediocre pay(if your lucky) ;no pension or security; constant risk of layoff; untrained and often unprofessional "management" that got their jobs by coming up from the floor and plain outlasting the smarter competition; lousy hours of work; and the attitude from ownership that we somehow cost the company money whereas whereas other aviation professions are the real money makers. Oh yeah, did I forget to mention the thrill of uprooting your family every five years or so to move to a new town usually at your own expense. Unless of course, you decide to stay on the road a lot and come home occasionally to a household of strangers.

You could ask the schools themselves for a second opinion. Just keep in mind when talking to them they are not in business for you. They are trying to protect their own jobs by attracting more applicants. The institutions are very aware they are graduating far more people than the industry can reasonably absorb.

As an added bonus, upon finishing school you get to deal with Transport Canada. Unlike provincial trade regulating bodies they are in world all of their own. They will change the rules on you several times during your apprenticeship making it as hard as possible to obtain a license. Don't be too surprised if you 48 month license takes 60 or 72 to obtain. Why do they do this? Because there's no other Transport Canada you can go to. They don't need to justify their decisions to the likes of you.

There are, of course, good things about the job. Your not stuck behind a desk and there can be a lot of job satisfaction. I just think you should think hard before commiting money to doing this and that includes getting information the schools and HRDC won't provide.

[rotorhead350]

You could ask the schools themselves for a second opinion. Just keep in mind when talking to them they are not in business for you. They are trying to protect their own jobs by attracting more applicants. The institutions are very aware they are graduating far more people than the industry can reasonably absorb.


Last I checked especially in my part of the industry there was a huge shortage of AME's. In fact it is getting to the point where companys have to pay what we are asking in order for us to work for them. Not sure how it looks on the fixed-wing side of things though..................rotorhead350

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

You seem to be missing the point.

While there may be, arguably, a shortage of EXPERIENCED AME's (caused primarily by the factors I listed above), there is no shortage of apprentices.

Schools don't graduate AME's they graduate apprentices.

Apprentices are not well valued by the industry. Even at this time an apprentice is lucky to be offered $14.00 per hour and that is after paying tens of thousands of dollars to get their training (This calculation includes lost pay a person could earn if doing a full time job instead of being in school).

For example, in British Columbia in the last three years the number of students being graduated from AME programs has been approximately doubled.

This spectacularly ignores the fact that even before the increase apprentices were hard pressed to get work in this industry.

This industry and government just don't get it. The problem of AME retention is caused by the industry itself. Using taxpayer's money to subsidize an industry unwilling or too lazy to change is not cost effective.

Additionally, other industries are much faster to appreciate a good candidate when they see one and at least pay them enough to repay the debt incurred to become trained in the first place.

Misleading and training a glut of apprentices is not the solution.

Therefore, I stand by my original post. Prospective apprentices need to consider all aspects before making a very expensive decision.

[Pat Richard]

Some interesting and valid points. TCAS's opinion of SAIT has been generally what I've heard when working at YYC. They do have the moniker of "apprentice factory", which by the way, was/is the title BCIT has enjoyed for ages.
I'd previously heard good things about SAIT, like KK said, but that was some time ago, and it looks like something changed after they moved into the new building.
NLC, last I heard, was still a decent place, but I would still find it hard to justify spending the tuition and time, and come out hoping to hit the big bucks at 14@ hour. Probably less.
I've heard from several people recently about the difficulty they're having finding experienced AME's, not just in the north. I personally know several who have left(lots in alberta) because of the shit money being offered to them. Aviation has its head up its proverbial ass in offering less than 25 a/hr for experienced guys, and they will probably have a harder time this time around filling positions. They deserve it.
Apprentices are a dime a dozen unfortunatly, and considering TC won't even let them sign off a DI these days, they are a tough sell.
I also never had anyone even mention that they were ever hired because of the school they went to.
I have heard of people being looked over for a position because of the school they went to(BCIT), and that is unfortunate for the student. Looks like SAIT is well on its way down that road.

I like to ask this of the experienced AME's out there. Don't sell yourselves out. It is starting to get busy now, and they are having trouble getting people they want. Wages have slipped for AME's in the past few years, so now is the chance to hold firm and get a decent wage from them.
If you have the experience /courses they want, make them pay you more than a good framer makes.



Pat

[Live_Forever]

Hey there everybody,

IMPORTANT Regarding SAIT. I'm currently finishing up my second year at the SAIT Aero Centre (the new one everybody is referring to), and have about 2 months to go in my 16 month course. Buck 82 mentioned that most schools run a full 16 months, but SAIT gave me the choice after my first 8 months of either taking 4 months off, and then starting my second year, or going straight through for 8 more months. Kiss_My_TCAS has a few points i agree with. He's right that you spend a lot of time in the books and that you don't get to play with all of the fancy equipment right away, but spending most of my first year with my nose in a book made me really appreciate the hands-on labs i've been doing lots of this second year. How much you get out of school depends on how much you are willing to absorb. If you don't like the autopilot course because you want to work on helicopters, then fine, put in the minimal effort required and take it for what it is; not for you, but for the guy beside you. Don't call it a course filled with useless knowledge. Poorly educated, maybe. But only because you didn't find an instructor after class to take you to the hangar and show you what was being taught all day. I apologize if i come across as a little bitter, but i just want to clarify a few things for the readers. If SAIT becomes a bash topic on forums, it becomes even harder for a SAIT graduate to find employment, amd that's unfair for those of us that stay after class to take our books into the hangar.

However, my problems with SAIT Aero Centre are as follows:
1) The have created too many AME classes. The reason class time is more common than hangar time is less common than class time is that too many classes have been created. There is now an AME-m A class, B class, C class, and D class (introduced this summer). This D class has screwed my schedual up royally. For you course shoppers out there, before paying tuition at SAIT, sit down with the "big shot" at the Aero center with initials L.F. and figure out your schedual. be sure that you have all first year courses your first year, and second year courses your second year. Trust me, this is important.
2) Some of the new instructors. ...There are some real brains in the Aero Center, for both Avionics and oily rags, but there are also a couple newbies that need some "guidance". If you find yourself struggling in class to understand things, put your hand up and stay after class, Don't shrug it off thinking that it's you and that you're just dumber than everybody else. If your entire class has a problem with an instructor and his/her teaching, talk to the instructor first. If that doesn't work, write a petition for len filmer and have your class sign it. Hand it to L.F.

The Good Things about SAIT are as follows:
1) Your instructors will help you if you stay after class and show some true interest. If you don't understand something, ask to be taken to the hangar and shown. 90% of the time, they will go out of their way to teach you, both in class and out. They understand that their job relies on you being happy with your education, and that if you wanted to rock their boat, you could.
2) New equipment, new building, and lots of access to computers. There are 2 labs, which are awesome, and they are open late. Lockers are huge, and can accommodate some pretty huge tool boxes without any problems.
3) Everybody is friendly, and there seems to be no problems with a student staying after school to look at the aircraft in the hangar. I came in on a Saturday once with a camera, and the place was open and a few instructors were kickin around the school. So i went into the hangar with my camera and took pictures of everything so i could study the aircraft in the hangar from my living room, and the only person who never smiled and walked past me was the stores guy, who stopped to chat about his experience. It was awesome.

So there's everything i know about SAIT. Your education is what you make of it.

[Strega]

L en Film er is an as s hole.

My dealings with him are from 15 years in the past, and he was an ass then. so Im guessing hes an ass today.

[Live_Forever]

hahahaha You said it Strega, not me....but i couldn't agree more. Some things never change, i guess. i shouldn't have written his name in the one spot, but oh well. You almost have to be an ass to have his job. The best part of everything, though, is that the teachers all fear him. So if the teachers know that your class isn't afraid of bringing filmer into the classroom to fix problems, then they'll do just about anything to solve your problem right away. It's sick, but it's true.

[phred]

The original post is ancient but lets get it back on track. If you have a good knowledge of turning wrenches already thats a good start.Avionics is the key to aviation in this day and age hands down. A touch of pilot training to give you an idea of what you are dealing with helps too. Go easy on the pilot training, you don't want the straw stuck in your ear for too long . AME with a good understanding of avionics ya can't go wrong

Oh and as far as where you get trained it may have some merit but you really are on your own to make with it what you can.