E2 pax loads on eastern routes

[Flyerone]

Heard E2 pax loads on eastern routes are very low, can anyone confirm ?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Heard E2 pax loads on eastern routes are very low, can anyone confirm ?

YOW and YUL fairly low. Who cares? Great for commuters. Hop aboard.

[8895]

Heard E2 pax loads on eastern routes are very low, can anyone confirm ?

As stated above yeah YOW and YUL have been pretty low the entire time so far. My best guess would be that the company wants to establish high frequencies for the YYZ-YOW-YUL triangle as it’ll be important connectivity wise, not just for when the network continues to expand, but also to help feed TS flights with their codeshare.

In the meantime it’s good to get the sector count up on indoc I guess lol

[cjp]

The western flying makes up for any lower eastern loads. And agree, great for any commuters on our eastern network. We move a lot of Montreal based pilots (Air Canada, Transat, and Westjet) on those routes.

Happy to lend a lift.

Not sure how Halifax is looking on a regular basis.

[Chaxterium]

In the meantime it’s good to get the sector count up on indoc I guess lol

You'd think so but all of my line indoc trips are out west.

[cdnavater]

The western flying makes up for any lower eastern loads. And agree, great for any commuters on our eastern network. We move a lot of Montreal based pilots (Air Canada, Transat, and Westjet) on those routes.

Happy to lend a lift.

Not sure how Halifax is looking on a regular basis.

How many in the fleet now?

[Timetoflyagain]

10 tails with another being delivered this month…mid 20’s by end of year dependant on engine deliveries. Hopefully all flying if the ground handlers would stop pushing them into buildings and other solid objects.

[cdnavater]

10 tails with another being delivered this month…mid 20’s by end of year dependant on engine deliveries. Hopefully all flying if the ground handlers would stop pushing them into buildings and other solid objects.

Yikes, how much damage? It somehow hurts more when it’s brand new and gets damaged!

[CaptDukeNukem]

10 tails with another being delivered this month…mid 20’s by end of year dependant on engine deliveries. Hopefully all flying if the ground handlers would stop pushing them into buildings and other solid objects.

Yikes, how much damage? It somehow hurts more when it’s brand new and gets damaged!

Nothing too crazy. Mostly dings. But enough to find its place on the damage charts. Sad story for airplanes with less than 500 TT on airframe.

[flyinhigh]

Loads were solid out west for quite awhile, then let off for abit. Now they are back to being solid consistently.

YHZ flights I’ve saw are consistently doing well.

YOW and YUL should 100% be on the DH8 as they are not good.

[fish4life]

I’m sure AC isn’t taking Porter lightly in the triangle between Pearson either and pricing appropriately

[Flyerone]

Loads were solid out west for quite awhile, then let off for abit. Now they are back to being solid consistently.

YHZ flights I’ve saw are consistently doing well.

YOW and YUL should 100% be on the DH8 as they are not good.

If they cant fill 9 fins, how the hell are they going to fill 50 ? Maybe when they open the US a miracle will happen

[cjp]

The western flying makes up for any lower eastern loads. And agree, great for any commuters on our eastern network. We move a lot of Montreal based pilots (Air Canada, Transat, and Westjet) on those routes.

Happy to lend a lift.

Not sure how Halifax is looking on a regular basis.

How many in the fleet now?

10 and jumping to 12 shortly.

[Aviator12]

Was 1 of 5 pax on a flight a few days ago. Haven’t seen more than 20-30 on most flights. It’s a great ride with an excellent service. Hopefully they can get the numbers up.

[yowflyer23]

Until they start offering more connections, it's likely that the loads will remain low outside of the summer and winter peak seasons. There is no reason for 6 airlines to be on YYC-YYZ for example. The local market on that route is only so big. As they begin to start service to places like Florida, etc. the planes will start to fill up with onwards connections. They will have an advantage over Flair/Lynx in that respect by being able to offer a network product vs just point-to-point. I'm sure Porter included these growing pains in their math before purchasing 50 planes. Hope so anyways... It will take a while to build brand recognition outside of the east and competition will be stiff. Also important to note that full planes do not equate to profit. Once they start being able to maintain consistently high LF's, they'll need to also find pax willing to pony up for the extra service. Not only are they flying a plane with similar fuel burn to the 7M8, but it also has far fewer seats to spread the higher costs over.

Definitely curious to see how the new YVR-YOW route will perform. Porter seems to be building up a respectable hub in YOW. I think it has a lot of potential and they stand a good chance of success in that market. It's the 4th largest metro population in Canada and it is heavily underserved. Most people working in YOW (aka government) also work at home or in some sort of hybrid position and have more disposable income as a result as well. I'm sure they would welcome the opportunity to fly direct to their destination vs driving/flying to YUL/YYZ.

[cjp]

Was 1 of 5 pax on a flight a few days ago. Haven’t seen more than 20-30 on most flights. It’s a great ride with an excellent service. Hopefully they can get the numbers up.

Brightside on those flights, OTP is through the roof lol

[Wayans]

Focusing on pax loads also ignores what is probably the bigger driver of keeping the planes flying, which is slot availability. Porter has the slots, and needs to use them to keep them. Until US/int'l operations start, there are only so many destinations which make sense to fly to. Montreal and Ottawa are two of them.

Porter management has said since they placed the order for E2s that they don't expect to make money on these aircraft for a while. As already mentioned - once more routes open up, connections will start to drive higher pax loads.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Also, people are forgetting how porter has made money in the past. Asset transactions. I got complete faith in deluce. I’ll happily fly empty airplanes cuz I know they got a plan.

[Fullflaps]

Also, people are forgetting how porter has made money in the past. Asset transactions. I got complete faith in deluce. I’ll happily fly empty airplanes cuz I know they got a plan.

You'll happily fly the airplanes to bankruptcy lol. Just like they did with canada 3000

[Aviationanalysis234]

Also, people are forgetting how porter has made money in the past. Asset transactions. I got complete faith in deluce. I’ll happily fly empty airplanes cuz I know they got a plan.

You'll happily fly the airplanes to bankruptcy lol. Just like they did with canada 3000

Fullflaps you should get your facts straight. The Deluce and Hunter families sold their interests in Canada 3000 in 1999 to John Lecky who then went on a buy other airlines exoansiom spree and was the sole owner of Canada 3000 when it went bankrupt in 2001. Prior to Deluce and Hunter families selling their interests in 1999 Canada 3000 was highly profitable.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Also, people are forgetting how porter has made money in the past. Asset transactions. I got complete faith in deluce. I’ll happily fly empty airplanes cuz I know they got a plan.

You'll happily fly the airplanes to bankruptcy lol. Just like they did with canada 3000

Fullflaps you should get your facts straight. The Deluce and Hunter families sold their interests in Canada 3000 in 1999 to John Lecky who then went on a buy other airlines exoansiom spree and was the sole owner of Canada 3000 when it went bankrupt in 2001. Prior to Deluce and Hunter families selling their interests in 1999 Canada 3000 was highly profitable.

Thank you for this response. Exactly what I was gonna say.

Deluce family’s been doing this for decades. Porter isn’t going bankrupt at least not right now. But hey, there’s bound to be some skeptics.

[cdnavater]

You'll happily fly the airplanes to bankruptcy lol. Just like they did with canada 3000

Fullflaps you should get your facts straight. The Deluce and Hunter families sold their interests in Canada 3000 in 1999 to John Lecky who then went on a buy other airlines exoansiom spree and was the sole owner of Canada 3000 when it went bankrupt in 2001. Prior to Deluce and Hunter families selling their interests in 1999 Canada 3000 was highly profitable.

Thank you for this response. Exactly what I was gonna say.

Deluce family’s been doing this for decades. Porter isn’t going bankrupt at least not right now. But hey, there’s bound to be some skeptics.

I’m all for optimism but believing history will repeat itself based on previous successes is not based in reality.
Reality is the last customer who bought an asset from them is still dealing with the headaches of a lawsuit, not sure any savvy investors will fall for that again.
An airline that can’t or doesn’t make money will run out eventually, look at Jazz, they are happy to let us sink without putting more money from other assets, ie; Chorus. Jazz itself makes some but not enough to boost our pay enough to attract pilots to keep it going. Keep in mind a chunk of the money Chrous makes is from the leases it holds for Jazz, not significantly different in the sense that Porter needs planes flying to increase the value of the possible new terminal it’s planning. But if those planes are flying around empty at some point they will cut their losses.
I wish you luck but I wouldn’t bank on assets constantly bailing the airline out. As said earlier, I’m sure the business case had airplane’s flying empty for a certain period and hopefully new routes will bring more people however the Canadian market is pretty saturated, something WILL give.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Fullflaps you should get your facts straight. The Deluce and Hunter families sold their interests in Canada 3000 in 1999 to John Lecky who then went on a buy other airlines exoansiom spree and was the sole owner of Canada 3000 when it went bankrupt in 2001. Prior to Deluce and Hunter families selling their interests in 1999 Canada 3000 was highly profitable.

Thank you for this response. Exactly what I was gonna say.

Deluce family’s been doing this for decades. Porter isn’t going bankrupt at least not right now. But hey, there’s bound to be some skeptics.

I’m all for optimism but believing history will repeat itself based on previous successes is not based in reality.
Reality is the last customer who bought an asset from them is still dealing with the headaches of a lawsuit, not sure any savvy investors will fall for that again.
An airline that can’t or doesn’t make money will run out eventually, look at Jazz, they are happy to let us sink without putting more money from other assets, ie; Chorus. Jazz itself makes some but not enough to boost our pay enough to attract pilots to keep it going. Keep in mind a chunk of the money Chrous makes is from the leases it holds for Jazz, not significantly different in the sense that Porter needs planes flying to increase the value of the possible new terminal it’s planning. But if those planes are flying around empty at some point they will cut their losses.
I wish you luck but I wouldn’t bank on assets constantly bailing the airline out. As said earlier, I’m sure the business case had airplane’s flying empty for a certain period and hopefully new routes will bring more people however the Canadian market is pretty saturated, something WILL give.

You may be right. Time will tell. The only thing I’ve learnt is that it’s all just a throw of the dice. Some will lose, some will win.

[Flyerone]

Did the eastern loads improve ?

[Chaxterium]

Did the eastern loads improve ?

From my recent experience, yes; absolutely.