Toronto base wins the PRIZE!

[RippleRock]

Way to got TO! You win the prize that comes with the "highest percentage of those listed to do voluntary work" outside your contractual obligations! You're SLAYING IT! Keep it up, you might win the CUP at this rate! An actual cup in TO, crazy times eh? Albeit the wrong one......but I digress.

The coveted Undermining Collective Unity Button is all yours! Wear it proudly, you just made it to the next round! May you rise to "mighty heights" on the backs of others efforts!


"Attaboy" from all the other bases actually pulling their weight and DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD!

[rudder]

Pulling on oars is fruitless unless they are pulling in unison.

Horses towing a carriage will remain stuck if towing in different directions.

Ticking a ‘yes or no’ box on an MOA or filling out a survey isn’t the end of demonstrating unity, support, or the demand for improvement. It is just the beginning.

For the first time in 9 years the AC pilots are going in to a REAL round of collective bargaining. Half the pilots on the property weren’t even there in the last round of bargaining. Maybe some have forgotten what collective bargaining looks like. Maybe others need to be educated. “My union speaks for me” cannot simply be a mantra. And this is critically important as a true pilot union is back on the AC property after 25 years.

The old ACPA ideology was 50%+1. Don’t fall in to that trap again.

[Vanguard]

I do love how there seems to be a huge focus to ask guys on flat pay to not pick up any VO. Some guys happily admit they're even going to take LOC to pull through. No one ever thinks some of them are barely able to keep their heads out of the water to breathe. Some pilots can't even afford a LOC and shouldn't be expected to.

How about a focus on the Captains who continuously seem to pick up VO or guys off flat pay listing themselves. I refuse to pickup any VO but I understand many FOs aren't in the same boat as us, the Captains doing VO right now are holding everyone else back. People can continue to list but these planes don't get off if we don't show up.

[Fanblade]

I do love how there seems to be a huge focus to ask guys on flat pay to not pick up any VO. Some guys happily admit they're even going to take LOC to pull through. No one ever thinks some of them are barely able to keep their heads out of the water to breathe. Some pilots can't even afford a LOC and shouldn't be expected to.

How about a focus on the Captains who continuously seem to pick up VO or guys off flat pay listing themselves. I refuse to pickup any VO but I understand many FOs aren't in the same boat as us, the Captains doing VO right now are holding everyone else back. People can continue to list but these planes don't get off if we don't show up.

We really should not be entertaining excuses. Next thing you know everyone will have one. Then even those holding the line will give up. I’ve watched it happen. The company is hoping for it.

Failure in any Unity exercise could have devastating consequences. If the numbers grow small individuals may get targeted. Again. I’ve watched it. Seen it.

Failure in a unity exercise weakens your NC and MEC

Flat pay pilots picking up VO, even though we all get why, is still working against their own best interests and the interests of the group as a whole.

CA picking up VO is unconscionable.

[Blueontop]

Exactly, yes trying to make ends meet because one in on flat pay is understandable but it s working against their own best interests. It funny how in accepting flat pay there has been the ridiculous mental pretzel of justification by saying “short term pain for long term gain”. So that justification is ok for coming to AC and accepting ridiculous low wages but not for standing in unity at a moment like this?

To all those accepting VO this is playing right into the hands of management, you MUST STOP immediately and work collectively as one. When the company calls looking for you to “take one for the team” just remember who that team is!

Short term pain for long term gain should still be your motto just use that justification for something else.

[Vanguard]

I do love how there seems to be a huge focus to ask guys on flat pay to not pick up any VO. Some guys happily admit they're even going to take LOC to pull through. No one ever thinks some of them are barely able to keep their heads out of the water to breathe. Some pilots can't even afford a LOC and shouldn't be expected to.

How about a focus on the Captains who continuously seem to pick up VO or guys off flat pay listing themselves. I refuse to pickup any VO but I understand many FOs aren't in the same boat as us, the Captains doing VO right now are holding everyone else back. People can continue to list but these planes don't get off if we don't show up.

We really should not be entertaining excuses. Next thing you know everyone will have one. Then even those holding the line will give up. I’ve watched it happen. The company is hoping for it.

Failure in any Unity exercise could have devastating consequences. If the numbers grow small individuals may get targeted. Again. I’ve watched it. Seen it.

Failure in a unity exercise weakens your NC and MEC

Flat pay pilots picking up VO, even though we all get why, is still working against their own best interests and the interests of the group as a whole.

CA picking up VO is unconscionable.

It must be easy when you're making 100-250k. I'm looking at their perspective. Its not an excuse to feed your family. I sympathize but I get what you're all saying as well. I know some that are struggling hard.

Captains should not be listing VO and they continuously are. I'm not worried about the flat pay guys.

[RVR6000]

The hypocrisy is real, I’ve flown with some of these guys listed for VO. All complaining about our contract is shit, we need at least 30%. And they’re all lining up, as if 80-85 block hours isn’t enough. It’s simply greed from the Captains lining up. If we can’t unite now, expect a substandard cost neutral contract.

Thank you YVR for the taking the lead.

[Fanblade]

I do love how there seems to be a huge focus to ask guys on flat pay to not pick up any VO. Some guys happily admit they're even going to take LOC to pull through. No one ever thinks some of them are barely able to keep their heads out of the water to breathe. Some pilots can't even afford a LOC and shouldn't be expected to.

How about a focus on the Captains who continuously seem to pick up VO or guys off flat pay listing themselves. I refuse to pickup any VO but I understand many FOs aren't in the same boat as us, the Captains doing VO right now are holding everyone else back. People can continue to list but these planes don't get off if we don't show up.

We really should not be entertaining excuses. Next thing you know everyone will have one. Then even those holding the line will give up. I’ve watched it happen. The company is hoping for it.

Failure in any Unity exercise could have devastating consequences. If the numbers grow small individuals may get targeted. Again. I’ve watched it. Seen it.

Failure in a unity exercise weakens your NC and MEC

Flat pay pilots picking up VO, even though we all get why, is still working against their own best interests and the interests of the group as a whole.

CA picking up VO is unconscionable.

It must be easy when you're making 100-250k. I'm looking at their perspective. Its not an excuse to feed your family. I sympathize but I get what you're all saying as well. I know some that are struggling hard.

Captains should not be listing VO and they continuously are. I'm not worried about the flat pay guys.

I figured that shot would be taken.

If you want a US contract all of us have to act like the US pilots. It all revolves around unity. If anyone deliberately breaks Unity they are working against the cause.

One of the huge issues we have at AC is we have forgotten how to be a union. Unity = Union. The individual acts for the greater good even if that means personal sacrifice.

I completely get your compassion for people on flat salary. I feel the same way. However I also know the best way I can help to fix their issue is Unity.

I am warning. If we don’t get unified. We will fail. I am not overstating this. If you support exceptions to unity you are supporting potential failure.

Short sighted thinking will only hurt the future of those we want to fix.

We have a lot of unity work to do with this group.

[RippleRock]

Those doing over a hundred hours should she shamed. HARD. No Skipper should be doing ANY. Not ONE.

Those senior are 100% responsible for the mess we are in right now. They SHOULD NOT be compounding insult on injury by undermining a collective effort to better our position in the face of an organization used to exploiting weakness..... REMIND THEM VO is outside the conditions of employment.

This summer, and the opportunity it presents will be gone in a flash. DON'T WASTE IT.

[RippleRock]

Pulling on oars is fruitless unless they are pulling in unison.

Horses towing a carriage will remain stuck if towing in different directions.

Ticking a ‘yes or no’ box on an MOA or filling out a survey isn’t the end of demonstrating unity, support, or the demand for improvement. It is just the beginning.

For the first time in 9 years the AC pilots are going in to a REAL round of collective bargaining. Half the pilots on the property weren’t even there in the last round of bargaining. Maybe some have forgotten what collective bargaining looks like. Maybe others need to be educated. “My union speaks for me” cannot simply be a mantra. And this is critically important as a true pilot union is back on the AC property after 25 years.

The old ACPA ideology was 50%+1. Don’t fall in to that trap again.

Thank you Rudder, always words of wisdom. You have never failed.

I read all your posts very carefully. Everyone should.

[ZBBYLW]

Those senior are 100% responsible for the mess we are in right now. They SHOULD NOT be compounding insult on injury by undermining a collective effort to better our position in the face of an organization used to exploiting weakness.....

The generation that fucked over every generation after them? I don't see many of them holding the line. A few guys for sure, but it's hard to turn down 10 grand cash to go drink some beers in Hong Kong or Dubai when as a cohort you've left the industry in shambles.

[Fanblade]

Those senior are 100% responsible for the mess we are in right now. They SHOULD NOT be compounding insult on injury by undermining a collective effort to better our position in the face of an organization used to exploiting weakness.....

The generation that fucked over every generation after them? I don't see many of them holding the line. A few guys for sure, but it's hard to turn down 10 grand cash to go drink some beers in Hong Kong or Dubai when as a cohort you've left the industry in shambles.

Sounds like an opportunity to have the full attention of someone for hours to talk about unity.

It takes time and work. Do not however support regression. Regression and excuses on the unity front will lead to failure.

[RippleRock]

Those senior are 100% responsible for the mess we are in right now. They SHOULD NOT be compounding insult on injury by undermining a collective effort to better our position in the face of an organization used to exploiting weakness.....

The generation that fucked over every generation after them? I don't see many of them holding the line. A few guys for sure, but it's hard to turn down 10 grand cash to go drink some beers in Hong Kong or Dubai when as a cohort you've left the industry in shambles.

If any -single group- owes the next generation more than anyone else, I don't know who that is.

One summer of flying your block is all that's being asked going into September.

Does no one have a barbecue to go to? Family to visit? Camping? A drive in the country? Day or two at the lake? If the only thing that appeals over this short summer is lining your pocket with cash and in turn screwing over everyone else's collective efforts, they need to reassess where their ability to earn the money they are came from in the first place. It came on the backs of those who STOOD UNITED before us.

It didn't come without personal sacrifice, and we aren't asking for much at this point. In fact, almost nothing. Fly your block.

[Fanblade]

As someone from the generation that screwed over the future for the next generation.

See I owned it. Now get over it. Stop looking in the rear view mirror.

Do not create more divisions. That is anti unity.

Now is the time to place unity above all the other noise. Take your frustration and make something positive instead.

Flight deck conversations

[ZBBYLW]

As someone from the generation that screwed over the future for the next generation.

See I owned it. Now get over it. Stop looking in the rear view mirror.

Do not create more divisions. That is anti unity.

Now is the time to place unity above all the other noise. Take your frustration and make something positive instead.

Flight deck conversations

I am totally looking forward not looking back. Looking at the VO list, it's the WB C's that are lined up at the trough.

[Fanblade]

As someone from the generation that screwed over the future for the next generation.

See I owned it. Now get over it. Stop looking in the rear view mirror.

Do not create more divisions. That is anti unity.

Now is the time to place unity above all the other noise. Take your frustration and make something positive instead.

Flight deck conversations

I am totally looking forward not looking back. Looking at the VO list, it's the WB C's that are lined up at the trough.

Okay,

What are you doing to get them to row in unison without sparking more division?

Certainly painting one group with one brush isn’t going to help.

Unity above the noise. Big picture.

[RippleRock]

As someone from the generation that screwed over the future for the next generation.

See I owned it. Now get over it. Stop looking in the rear view mirror.

Do not create more divisions. That is anti unity.

Now is the time to place unity above all the other noise. Take your frustration and make something positive instead.

Flight deck conversations

You may be "owning it like I am"....we're of similar vintage likely. Good for you.

Have you seen the VO lists for YYZ and YUL? Apparently not. There is nothing, --nothing-- unifying about that effort. It's nausiating seeing senior pilots literally tripping over each other to get VO. The comments approach begging. It's rather pathetic.

What's your answer for that? Ignore it? We all might as well just ignore anything Charlene says going forward. Our past gives what she says gravity. Forget the past at our peril as we will have nothing to gage our future. We learn and REMEMBER our history so we can DO BETTER.

This showing in YUL and YYZ is same 'ol same 'ol. Nothing learned here.

[Fanblade]

As someone from the generation that screwed over the future for the next generation.

See I owned it. Now get over it. Stop looking in the rear view mirror.

Do not create more divisions. That is anti unity.

Now is the time to place unity above all the other noise. Take your frustration and make something positive instead.

Flight deck conversations

You may be "owning it like I am"....we're of similar vintage likely. Good for you.

Have you seen the VO lists for YYZ and YUL? Apparently not. There is nothing, --nothing-- unifying about that effort. It's nausiating seeing senior pilots literally tripping over each other to get VO. The comments approach begging. It's rather pathetic.

What's your answer for that? Ignore it? We all might as well just ignore anything Charlene says going forward. Our past gives what she says gravity. Forget the past at our peril as we will have nothing to gage our future. We learn and REMEMBER our history so we can DO BETTER.

This showing in YUL and YYZ is same 'ol same 'ol. Nothing learned here.

We have work to do. Remember we have 15% of the group that did not support leaving ACPA. They were highly likely from the most senior demographic. That group will be tough to get on side. Think about it. They were happy with ACPA. Enough said.

With that said 15% can not make up the difference if 85% are unified. A bunch of WB captains can't cover all seats. The only thing they can accomplish is to poison the 85%. We can not control their actions but we can control their impact on the rest of us.

There will always be a group within a union working against common goals. Always. Get used to it.

We haven't been a union for so long people have forgotten how. Its a work in progress. Today maybe we have 70% unity. Okay how do we get to 75%. Then to 80%.

The membership is the engine. The MEC and NC are only the steering wheel. No engine and no one moves. A big engine is powerful.

Stay the course. Unity is tough. Our first target should be those not even paying attention. Too many people who simply say the union speaks for me and then disengage.

You would be shocked (maybe not) how many don't even read union emails. They are clueless as to what is going on.

They view anything union as set it and leave it. They need a tune up. They aren't deliberately working against us.

[RippleRock]

As someone from the generation that screwed over the future for the next generation.

See I owned it. Now get over it. Stop looking in the rear view mirror.

Do not create more divisions. That is anti unity.

Now is the time to place unity above all the other noise. Take your frustration and make something positive instead.

Flight deck conversations

You may be "owning it like I am"....we're of similar vintage likely. Good for you.

Have you seen the VO lists for YYZ and YUL? Apparently not. There is nothing, --nothing-- unifying about that effort. It's nausiating seeing senior pilots literally tripping over each other to get VO. The comments approach begging. It's rather pathetic.

What's your answer for that? Ignore it? We all might as well just ignore anything Charlene says going forward. Our past gives what she says gravity. Forget the past at our peril as we will have nothing to gage our future. We learn and REMEMBER our history so we can DO BETTER.

This showing in YUL and YYZ is same 'ol same 'ol. Nothing learned here.

We have work to do. Remember we have 15% of the group that did not support leaving ACPA. They were highly likely from the most senior demographic. That group will be tough to get on side. Think about it. They were happy with ACPA. Enough said.

With that said 15% can not make up the difference if 85% are unified. A bunch of WB captains can't cover all seats. The only thing they can accomplish is to poison the 85%. We can not control their actions but we can control their impact on the rest of us.

There will always be a group within a union working against common goals. Always. Get used to it.

We haven't been a union for so long people have forgotten how. Its a work in progress. Today maybe we have 70% unity. Okay how do we get to 75%. Then to 80%.

The membership is the engine. The MEC and NC are only the steering wheel. No engine and no one moves. A big engine is powerful.

Stay the course. Unity is tough. Our first target should be those not even paying attention. Too many people who simply say the union speaks for me and then disengage.

You would be shocked (maybe not) how many don't even read union emails. They are clueless as to what is going on.

They view anything union as set it and leave it. They need a tune up. They aren't deliberately working against us.

I can't argue any of that.

It is a disappointment though. It's impossible for me to fathom that they don't understand that moving forward firmly united is the ONLY way. ACPA has done nothing but "sell epic failures" throughout it's existence. For anyone to vote for the "status quo" just boggles my mind, especially in this environment.

The only answer that comes to me is that they are in the last 5-10 years of their respective careers and see nothing but "what's immediately in it for them" and ONLY them. They have no sense of personal responsibility, nor guilt for the tragic state of our contract, and are content to keep their heads buried in sand.

We may need to do it without them. They can remain a "selfish footnote" in the AC Pilot history books.

[Vanguard]

I do love how there seems to be a huge focus to ask guys on flat pay to not pick up any VO. Some guys happily admit they're even going to take LOC to pull through. No one ever thinks some of them are barely able to keep their heads out of the water to breathe. Some pilots can't even afford a LOC and shouldn't be expected to.

How about a focus on the Captains who continuously seem to pick up VO or guys off flat pay listing themselves. I refuse to pickup any VO but I understand many FOs aren't in the same boat as us, the Captains doing VO right now are holding everyone else back. People can continue to list but these planes don't get off if we don't show up.

We really should not be entertaining excuses. Next thing you know everyone will have one. Then even those holding the line will give up. I’ve watched it happen. The company is hoping for it.

Failure in any Unity exercise could have devastating consequences. If the numbers grow small individuals may get targeted. Again. I’ve watched it. Seen it.

Failure in a unity exercise weakens your NC and MEC

Flat pay pilots picking up VO, even though we all get why, is still working against their own best interests and the interests of the group as a whole.

CA picking up VO is unconscionable.

Excuses? Who do you think you are and what right do you have to tell another FO not to do what they need to feed their family. It’s not excuses — it’s desperate. I feel for anyone on flat pay. It should’ve been abolished long time ago. Having flown with some I’m hearing some dire circumstances.

It is sad that our FOs are at that point in Canadian aviation. Working at AC and making poverty wages. Again no captain should be picking up any VO however no one even on slack has the balls to say anything to them.

Half the guys calling out people on slack have actually picked up fair amount of VO last few months. I love the audacity some of these guys have. Call out the Captains. I know i will be.

[Fanblade]

Vanguard,

I get your compassion for those on flat pay. We all agree. However your solution is self destructive.

[RippleRock]

Vanguard,

I get your compassion for those on flat pay. We all agree. However your solution is self destructive.

Again I agree.

VO is a HUGE part of the operation. They didn't hesitate to pull our B1's, not for a second. They are 100% counting on the "goodwill" (insert stupidity, or greed if it suits anyone better) of the pilot body to "continue giving".

This "fully legal" process can be as painless as just "not topping up" ones paycheque, for a month or two and living on their salary that we all knew full well going in. Or, you can save up for a strike, and possibly lose out on an ENTIRE paycheck or two. If we cohesively choose the former, this will be over in weeks. They will be begging us to come to the table.

It comes down to a choice now (no VO), or by fiat (likely strike) later. The big problem with pilots is, as "Scarface" Tony Montana said, "Never underestimate the other guys greed."

I'm putting my money on Montana.

[SmokinJoe]

Maybe it’s time for your union to institute that 50% of all VO earned gets sent to the union. That’ll put a stop to it. AC pilots are in a position to make a real difference in wages, time for everyone to halt this overtime. Your only hurting yourselves.

[dh89]

Agreed with the need to eat but keep in mind ya'll, 58k is not hard at all to make up outside of flying. I personally do other stuff on the side which I absolutely do not like (not working the corner-yet...), to make ends meet and will not take any overtime from the company. It's a principle. This is our chance, all for one and one for all! let's act like a centipede with no busted legs!

[schnitzel2k3]

Agreed with the need to eat but keep in mind ya'll, 58k is not hard at all to make up outside of flying. I personally do other stuff on the side which I absolutely do not like (not working the corner-yet...), to make ends meet and will not take any overtime from the company. It's a principle. This is our chance, all for one and one for all! let's act like a centipede with no busted legs!

humancentipede.jpg (76.16 KiB) Viewed 3266 times

Should I eat the cuddlefish and asparagus or the vanilla paste?