Latest CA

[Romain]

Good evening,
could anyone share the most recent Pilot agreement? I have the one supposed to end in 2020 and I was wondering how stuff like Payscale, pension and benefits evolved.
Thank you

[CaptDukeNukem]

Good evening,
could anyone share the most recent Pilot agreement? I have the one supposed to end in 2020 and I was wondering how stuff like Payscale, pension and benefits evolved.
Thank you

All CA are public domain.

https://negotech.labour.gc.ca/cgi-bin/R ... ture=en-CA

Also, I believe they are still on the 2020 one? Not sure

[TFTMB heavy]

Good evening,
could anyone share the most recent Pilot agreement? I have the one supposed to end in 2020 and I was wondering how stuff like Payscale, pension and benefits evolved.
Thank you

All CA are public domain.

https://negotech.labour.gc.ca/cgi-bin/R ... ture=en-CA

Also, I believe they are still on the 2020 one? Not sure

Still on the 2015-2020 CBA with a few amendments. If you search on here you'll find the latest salary scales from the amendment last year valid for 3 years.

[Romain]

Ok I will have a look. If it's just a few amendments on the old CA I believe that pensions stayed the same.
Thank you.

[FL320]

Payscale.png (121.87 KiB) Viewed 5886 times

All pilots on the same payscale WB

Pension: if you put 5% of gross pay; they match 8%

you will pay about 300$/2weeks for your insurance

[cdnavater]

Payscale.png

All pilots on the same payscale WB

Pension: if you put 5% of gross pay; they match 8%

you will pay about 300$/2weeks for your insurance

Fair to say, you are on a status pay system?
The widebody pay could be higher but is being dragged down by the narrowbody fleet you have

[thepoors]

Payscale.png

All pilots on the same payscale WB

Pension: if you put 5% of gross pay; they match 8%

you will pay about 300$/2weeks for your insurance

Fair to say, you are on a status pay system?
The widebody pay could be higher but is being dragged down by the narrowbody fleet you have

This is a management tactic: "everyone is on WB pay" but like you said it ends up being a crappy compromise. To be fair, I think this is not the case for CAs. The CA scale is quite good, however FOs are clearly being shafted. CAs are on a real WB wage, while FOs are realistically still on a NB scale if you compare to AC and WJ.

[TFTMB heavy]

Payscale.png

All pilots on the same payscale WB

Pension: if you put 5% of gross pay; they match 8%

you will pay about 300$/2weeks for your insurance

Fair to say, you are on a status pay system?
The widebody pay could be higher but is being dragged down by the narrowbody fleet you have

This is a management tactic: "everyone is on WB pay" but like you said it ends up being a crappy compromise. To be fair, I think this is not the case for CAs. The CA scale is quite good, however FOs are clearly being shafted. CAs are on a real WB wage, while FOs are realistically still on a NB scale if you compare to AC and WJ.

The two pay scales at Air Transat have been around for 12 years or so. Prior to having narrow bodies the 310 and 330 were status pay. When the 310 were replaced by the 321LR it was agreed that they would fall under the wide body pay.

Our last full reopening was in 2015, since then it's been extensions with LOUs. 2020 just prior to the pandemic and 2022 when we limped out of the pandemic. The latest expires on April 20th 2025, I doubt we will make it to that point before a full reopening. If Transat wants to implement their new fleet plan they will need pilots and as of late recruiting and retention are difficult. The new WS CA has dried up that pool and we loose to AC monthly, some leave for DE at low costs and have almost 1 retirement per month.

The good news is that with the last couple of quarterly results show a brighter future and we will have some bargaining power for the first time in a while.

[Babar350]

Are people paying the bond to go to AC or are they going after the bond is due?
What is the reason people go from 90k wages back to 60k?

[TFTMB heavy]

Are people paying the bond to go to AC or are they going after the bond is due?
What is the reason people go from 90k wages back to 60k?

I don't know about the bond but from what I've heard they leave for the chance to be out west or in YUL. Job security is another reason.

[Romain]

Are people paying the bond to go to AC or are they going after the bond is due?
What is the reason people go from 90k wages back to 60k?

Why 90k? FO at Transat starts at 64k in 2023.

[Babar350]

Are people paying the bond to go to AC or are they going after the bond is due?
What is the reason people go from 90k wages back to 60k?

Why 90k? FO at Transat starts at 64k in 2023.

The bond is 3 years / 30k I believe.

[Romain]

Are people paying the bond to go to AC or are they going after the bond is due?
What is the reason people go from 90k wages back to 60k?

Why 90k? FO at Transat starts at 64k in 2023.

The bond is 3 years / 30k I believe.

I think you're right, but that doesn't explain where you found the 90k wages

[Babar350]

Why 90k? FO at Transat starts at 64k in 2023.

The bond is 3 years / 30k I believe.

I think you're right, but that doesn't explain where you found the 90k wages

Because the bond is 30k on 3 years, it would make sense to leave at the end of it. So you would leave a 90k wage on year 3 to go back to 60k?

[Babar350]

Are people paying the bond to go to AC or are they going after the bond is due?
What is the reason people go from 90k wages back to 60k?

I don't know about the bond but from what I've heard they leave for the chance to be out west or in YUL. Job security is another reason.

I would understand going back west but in that case, I would apply to Westjet for Calgary instead of AC, unless their ultimate goal is YVR, which would make sense since Transat closed the YVR base.
Regarding job security, I still don't get why Transat wouldn't be safe for them for a career. I mean they've been here for almost 40 years and the worst-case scenario they will be bought by AC or WJ right?

[DanWEC]

The pay for the first few years is terrible. Year 1+2 is similar to AC flat pay. Year 3 gets a little better. A major, major issue right now is the deductions. A year 3 AC pilot takes home about the same as a year 3 TS guy, despite earning 25% less! The're usually working some 5-8 days a month more however.

As another note, the TS FO scale used to start at 80k maybe 15 years ago. When AC implemented their flat pay, TS cut their initial pay as well during concessions. It's a great effect AC mgmnt and ACPA has had on our entire industry.

Why do people leave for AC? Quicker upgrade to a NB captain, more base choices, Pension... you'll be making more money in 20 years at AC but definitely working for it. Also "Real airline" credibility maybe...
Transat seems to be in a slow, steady state of constant change and improvement. Pay took a big jump a while ago and it will have to go up again to attract and retain... Commuter policy changes, EFBs, flight plan and load delivery instead of an abacus. Despite ongoing issues, (Did I mention deductions?) It's a very different place than it was even 5 years ago, and looking forward to see the continuation.
I'd suggest if you're a 25-30 year old guy and have the shot at both, go with AC. But if you're perhaps older, have other things on the side, want to work less, and don't want to wait 25 years for a well paying WB capt position, TS will get you there quicker, albeit with a lower ceiling.
Anyhow, it's Aviation. These comparisons are all moot and almost futile right now though. Both contracts will be redone soon, and the playing field could be wildly different in either direction.

[TFTMB heavy]

The pay for the first few years is terrible. Year 1+2 is similar to AC flat pay. Year 3 gets a little better. A major, major issue right now is the deductions. A year 3 AC pilot takes home about the same as a year 3 TS guy, despite earning 25% less! The're usually working some 5-8 days a month more however.

As another note, the TS FO scale used to start at 80k maybe 15 years ago. When AC implemented their flat pay, TS cut their initial pay as well during concessions. It's a great effect AC mgmnt and ACPA has had on our entire industry.

Why do people leave for AC? Quicker upgrade to a NB captain, more base choices, Pension... you'll be making more money in 20 years at AC but definitely working for it. Also "Real airline" credibility maybe...
Transat seems to be in a slow, steady state of constant change and improvement. Pay took a big jump a while ago and it will have to go up again to attract and retain... Commuter policy changes, EFBs, flight plan and load delivery instead of an abacus. Despite ongoing issues, (Did I mention deductions?) It's a very different place than it was even 5 years ago, and looking forward to see the continuation.
I'd suggest if you're a 25-30 year old guy and have the shot at both, go with AC. But if you're perhaps older, have other things on the side, want to work less, and don't want to wait 25 years for a well paying WB capt position, TS will get you there quicker, albeit with a lower ceiling.
Anyhow, it's Aviation. These comparisons are all moot and almost futile right now though. Both contracts will be redone soon, and the playing field could be wildly different in either direction.

I agree with most of what you're saying. Just to set the record straight, for what it's worth, starting salary 15 years ago was 65k. The abysmal FO scale started in 2010 with two echelons (50k & 55k) added below the existing ones. In 2015 we were threw a bunch of money into the FO scales and did our best to fix them. 2020 saw some good improvements for the scales in general with an extra 2% bump on the expiration date of the LOU. 2022 gave us 3%, 3% and 2.5%.

The take home as mentioned is very strained by the deductions for insurances, mainly our LTD that is 100% pilot funded and tax free when claimed. Our pension, just a plain old RRSP match by the company (pilot 5%, company matches at 8%) is insufficient for high earners to ensure a decent retirement. The pay scales, retirement and insurances will need to be addressed for TS to be able to grow into the fleet plan they have set up. This will be our strongest position into bargaining in a long time if we don't fall into a recession.

All that being said quality of life is pretty good, I'll be working 11 days in July and could have been at 8-9 by bidding only turns. Equipment and technology is getting huge improvements and the variety of flying available to all is the best offered in Canada in my opinion.

[Babar350]

All that being said quality of life is pretty good, I'll be working 11 days in July and could have been at 8-9 by bidding only turns. Equipment and technology is getting huge improvements and the variety of flying available to all is the best offered in Canada in my opinion.

How many guaranteed days off would a new hire get? Is it the same on the 321 and the 330?

[TFTMB heavy]

All that being said quality of life is pretty good, I'll be working 11 days in July and could have been at 8-9 by bidding only turns. Equipment and technology is getting huge improvements and the variety of flying available to all is the best offered in Canada in my opinion.

How many guaranteed days off would a new hire get? Is it the same on the 321 and the 330?

12 on a regular block, 16 on a mini block and 11 on reserve.

Same rules for both airplanes.

[Babar350]

How many guaranteed days off would a new hire get? Is it the same on the 321 and the 330?

12 on a regular block, 16 on a mini block and 11 on reserve.

Same rules for both airplanes.

Thanks!

How long till we can average working 14-15 days a month?

[TFTMB heavy]

How many guaranteed days off would a new hire get? Is it the same on the 321 and the 330?

12 on a regular block, 16 on a mini block and 11 on reserve.

Same rules for both airplanes.

Thanks!

How long till we can average working 14-15 days a month?

Pretty quick for most months I'd say but schedules are a bit lighter these days until we get the airplanes that are late.

[Blueontop]

Are people paying the bond to go to AC or are they going after the bond is due?
What is the reason people go from 90k wages back to 60k?

On another thread it was stated that the bond was removed? Anyone with first hand knowledge confirm or deny?

[Romain]

The bond is 3 years / 30k I believe.

I think you're right, but that doesn't explain where you found the 90k wages

Because the bond is 30k on 3 years, it would make sense to leave at the end of it. So you would leave a 90k wage on year 3 to go back to 60k?

Oh ok, got it.

[DanWEC]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Just to set the record straight, for what it's worth, starting salary 15 years ago was 65k. The abysmal FO scale started in 2010 with two echelons (50k & 55k) added below the existing ones. In 2015 we were threw a bunch of money into the FO scales and did our best to fix them. 2020 saw some good improvements for the scales in general with an extra 2% bump on the expiration date of the LOU. 2022 gave us 3%, 3% and 2.5%.

The take home as mentioned is very strained by the deductions for insurances, mainly our LTD that is 100% pilot funded and tax free when claimed. Our pension, just a plain old RRSP match by the company (pilot 5%, company matches at 8%) is insufficient for high earners to ensure a decent retirement. The pay scales, retirement and insurances will need to be addressed for TS to be able to grow into the fleet plan they have set up. This will be our strongest position into bargaining in a long time if we don't fall into a recession.

All that being said quality of life is pretty good, I'll be working 11 days in July and could have been at 8-9 by bidding only turns. Equipment and technology is getting huge improvements and the variety of flying available to all is the best offered in Canada in my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification. I was told 80k a while back, perhaps that was an assumption of total gross.

The last few posts here got misquoted under me regarding the description of your month, but I agree, being 100% medium and long haul the hours add up quickly and the schedule is terrific. I just wish they kept the bunks!

[Tbayer2021]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Just to set the record straight, for what it's worth, starting salary 15 years ago was 65k. The abysmal FO scale started in 2010 with two echelons (50k & 55k) added below the existing ones. In 2015 we were threw a bunch of money into the FO scales and did our best to fix them. 2020 saw some good improvements for the scales in general with an extra 2% bump on the expiration date of the LOU. 2022 gave us 3%, 3% and 2.5%.

The take home as mentioned is very strained by the deductions for insurances, mainly our LTD that is 100% pilot funded and tax free when claimed. Our pension, just a plain old RRSP match by the company (pilot 5%, company matches at 8%) is insufficient for high earners to ensure a decent retirement. The pay scales, retirement and insurances will need to be addressed for TS to be able to grow into the fleet plan they have set up. This will be our strongest position into bargaining in a long time if we don't fall into a recession.

All that being said quality of life is pretty good, I'll be working 11 days in July and could have been at 8-9 by bidding only turns. Equipment and technology is getting huge improvements and the variety of flying available to all is the best offered in Canada in my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification. I was told 80k a while back, perhaps that was an assumption of total gross.

The last few posts here got misquoted under me regarding the description of your month, but I agree, being 100% medium and long haul the hours add up quickly and the schedule is terrific. I just wish they kept the bunks!

Whichever number it actually was, an inflation calculator puts 65K in 2005 being the equivalent of just over 101K today. So not only have we fallen behind in dollar value, but in real purchasing power also.