Denying Overtime

[dh89]

So now that the company is whining about it, it seems to have some sort of effect. Denying voluntary overtime is NOT illegal as far as I understand. I guess the union had to say something but maybe they could have made it clearer that denying overtime still keeps us within the confines of our contract. As far as being assiged things during RSV and time on duty, it is fair game.
Everyone agree or I'm I missing something here?

[truedude]

So now that the company is whining about it, it seems to have some sort of effect. Denying voluntary overtime is NOT illegal as far as I understand. I guess the union had to say something but maybe they could have made it clearer that denying overtime still keeps us within the confines of our contract. As far as being assiged things during RSV and time on duty, it is fair game.
Everyone agree or I'm I missing something here?

There is no requirement to work over time. What AC was apprently whining about is it "appeared" to them that it was a coordinated effort to not do over time, which could be considered job action.

But as long as the motive to not work overtime is "personal" then the company doesn't have an argument to stand on.

[digits_]

"Let's all follow our contract"

THAT'S ILLEGAL JOB ACTION

"Ok, let's not follow our contract then?"

THAT'S ILLEGAL JOB ACTION

"..."

[truedude]

So now that the company is whining about it, it seems to have some sort of effect. Denying voluntary overtime is NOT illegal as far as I understand. I guess the union had to say something but maybe they could have made it clearer that denying overtime still keeps us within the confines of our contract. As far as being assiged things during RSV and time on duty, it is fair game.
Everyone agree or I'm I missing something here?

There is no requirement to work over time. What AC was apprently whining about is it "appeared" to them that it was a coordinated effort to not do over time, which could be considered job action.

But as long as the motive to not work overtime is "personal" then the company doesn't have an argument to stand on.

[digits_]

"Let's all follow our contract"

THAT'S ILLEGAL JOB ACTION

"Ok, let's not follow our contract then?"

THAT'S ILLEGAL JOB ACTION

"..."

[dontcallmeshirley]

I do not work for Air Canada. Take your off time and spend it doing something for yourself or your family. Go for a bike ride. Go camping. Go drinking. Go walk through a Wal-Mart moving pricing stickers around to confuse people.

Don't go to work and help your employer who is actively trying to pay you less than you are worth.

[Dias]

Well it's good to know the pressure is working. I think I'll buy a paddle board and enjoy the water this summer.

[Chips&Pops]

I will VOLUNTARILY enjoy every single one of my days off allllllllll summer long.

Take it easy y'all

[lownslow]

Well it's good to know the pressure is working. I think I'll buy a paddle board and enjoy the water this summer.

You should do that either way. Whether you’re happy with your work conditions or not, you shouldn’t let your job define who you are. I think we’ve all flown with those boring weenies and I for one don’t want to become that.

[Inverted2]

Although I’m a Jazz pilot I will state that I do not pick up overtime but I have picked up a few extra sick days lately since they are making us work 18-19 days a month.

[Rowdy]

Although I’m a Jazz pilot I will state that I do not pick up overtime but I have picked up a few extra sick days lately since they are making us work 18-19 days a month.

More than 16 days is fatiguing right now!

[BTD]

Well it's good to know the pressure is working. I think I'll buy a paddle board and enjoy the water this summer.

You should do that either way. Whether you’re happy with your work conditions or not, you shouldn’t let your job define who you are. I think we’ve all flown with those boring weenies and I for one don’t want to become that.

We have all also flown with opposite. Guys counting the days until retirement when they still have 20 years left. Not much fun either. Middle ground is good. Get the paddle board.

[NotDirty!]

Best of both worlds: get an inflatable paddle board, and bring it on your [VO] layovers.

[TheStig]

Flight Ops management needs to come to recognize that they are not simply dealing with a stubborn MEC (or MEC Chair) that they can't sell their agenda to and help them manage low expectations, but rather, a group of Union leaders who are representative of a pilot group that are fed up with the status quo.

Pilots not taking calls for extra flying or simulator sessions is not the result of direction from the MEC but rather a direct message to management that they were insulted at the immediate removal of B1 travel benefits when the pilots exercised their option to opt out of the 10 year framework.

Maintaining B1 travel priority until the completion of collective bargaining would have demonstrated a level of respect that the pilot group continues to contribute to the success of the airline and their willingness to approach negotiations in earnest. Instead they signalled that their approach to labour relations will be to continue to treat employees with retribution and discipline.

[Crewbunk]

In my opinion, the B1 issue was the final straw. The last few years have been rife with little issues, enforced by management, that step by step made the job harder and much less rewarding. I think, the pilots finally realized they were in a pot of boiling water with the frogs.

While AC would like to think it was the MEC and ALPA that brought about this feeling, I see it the other way around. It was years of abuse by AC, that brought about the new MEC and change to ALPA.

[ZBBYLW]

Crewbunk nailed it. The B1 decision was the stray that broke the camels back.

[TheAlcalde]

In my opinion, the B1 issue was the final straw. The last few years have been rife with little issues, enforced by management, that step by step made the job harder and much less rewarding. I think, the pilots finally realized they were in a pot of boiling water with the frogs.

While AC would like to think it was the MEC and ALPA that brought about this feeling, I see it the other way around. It was years of abuse by AC, that brought about the new MEC and change to ALPA.

100%. The company sees us nothing more than a a necessary expense, I see them as nothing more than my pay cheque.

[RippleRock]

It would be very interesting to see a comparison of our direct compensation cost to the Corp in a pie chart. Use United, Delta and American pilots as the "controls".
We would all be shocked as to the size of the "crewing discount" we've been handing over. I promise you a serious awakening. This isn't something they want you to be aware of.


Working more for a wage uplift is exactly what they want from us. There seems to be plenty here who want to drag this out into the fall. Greed and stupidity are the two reasons that come to mind immediately.

Dragging this out won't get us a better deal.

[dontcallmeshirley]

For any airline management on here, the best way forward is to approach the union negotiating team and ask what they want. Engage in good faith talks and come to tentative agreements on as many items as possible. Do your best to give the pilots the big ticket items that they need.

If you don't, you end up paying more to avert a strike.

[Crewbunk]

For any airline management on here, the best way forward is to approach the union negotiating team and ask what they want. Engage in good faith talks and come to tentative agreements on as many items as possible. Do your best to give the pilots the big ticket items that they need.

If you don't, you end up paying more to avert a strike.

Or paying more between now and when negotiations begin in the autumn. Think of how much the cancelled and delayed flights not having enough pilots would cost. Then …. remember, 85% of AC’s direct operating profit comes from June, July and August.

The two weeks around Christmas and New Years last year had multiple weather delays. AC estimated it cost them $250M. Now …. imagine it for three months! I’d hate to be the AC manager that decided cancelling B1s was a good idea.

If AC decided to cancel flat pay and give a 30% raise tomorrow, all this would end. And … it would still be cheaper than the summer disaster that’s presently brewing.

[CaptDukeNukem]

For any airline management on here, the best way forward is to approach the union negotiating team and ask what they want. Engage in good faith talks and come to tentative agreements on as many items as possible. Do your best to give the pilots the big ticket items that they need.

If you don't, you end up paying more to avert a strike.

Or paying more between now and when negotiations begin in the autumn. Think of how much the cancelled and delayed flights not having enough pilots would cost. Then …. remember, 85% of AC’s direct operating profit comes from June, July and August.

The two weeks around Christmas and New Years last year had multiple weather delays. AC estimated it cost them $250M. Now …. imagine it for three months! I’d hate to be the AC manager that decided cancelling B1s was a good idea.

If AC decided to cancel flat pay and give a 30% raise tomorrow, all this would end. And … it would still be cheaper than the summer disaster that’s presently brewing.

I’m with you on this one. Simple contract increases and QOL upgrades go a long way. Unfortunately, it seems history has shown us that companies would rather duke it out at the 11th hour. Stay strong AC, you guys got this.

[lownslow]

Well it's good to know the pressure is working. I think I'll buy a paddle board and enjoy the water this summer.

You should do that either way. Whether you’re happy with your work conditions or not, you shouldn’t let your job define who you are. I think we’ve all flown with those boring weenies and I for one don’t want to become that.

We have all also flown with opposite. Guys counting the days until retirement when they still have 20 years left. Not much fun either. Middle ground is good. Get the paddle board.

The countdown to retirement guys are still all about the job, just in a completely different way. I work exclusively to fund the cool crap I do when not working.

[accountant]

If AC decided to cancel flat pay and give a 30% raise tomorrow, all this would end. And … it would still be cheaper than the summer disaster that’s presently brewing.

And why would they?

That's above WS, and WS gains caught up to market somewhat and just passed. You'll be lucky if you see 30%. Basic math.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Did he say anything useful or just more of the usual

[Crewbunk]

If AC decided to cancel flat pay and give a 30% raise tomorrow, all this would end. And … it would still be cheaper than the summer disaster that’s presently brewing.

And why would they?

Read what I said again. It’s not what you think is right. It’s not what you think is market value. It’s not what you think is deserved. Face it, what you think is irrelevant. It’s what it’s actually going to cost to lose less over the summer.

Simple math.