GA Pilots: Make your voices heard. Block Function

[digits_]

What broke the camels back for me, really, this time, was the PA32 thread.

Instead of analyzing the accident, it became trendy to mock that young pilot directly, his stupidity and his faith. This is VERY over the top hurtful should this young man, who leaves behind a widow, a young baby, and sadly took 5 other men with him.

What if that man’s family or friends read that thread? Are we as a community — your words — to be proud of what we have become?

This pilot’s poor decision making (apparently) does NOT give this forum the right to trash his life and drag his name through the mud for laughs. He’s dead. That is NOT funny.

This would have been a perfect point to discuss in the pa32 thread. But you got it moderated because you didn't like the direction it was going.
You're also exaggerating again. Nobody was mocking anything. Questions were asked if his faith could have been a factor in his decision. Seeing that organized religion is not exactly the bastion of critical or free thinking, and someone thought it was important enough to tell the press he was flying to a church function, I thought it was a valid question to ask and discuss. We're all aware of at least one very high profile aviation incident where (abuse of) religion was a major root cause. Was religion a contributing factor for this particular event? Who knows. And now we can't even discuss it, because *you* think it's disrespectful. That's not how a forum is supposed to work.

You're attempting to bully other posters to conform to your world view and your values. That is doomed to fail.

Also note that this is another recurring pattern on threads that go off the rails. It often starts by a reference to another topic that was previously closed or moderated, trying to get a sneaky reply in, while in the proces scolding or lecturing the participants of that other thread that disagreed with ones own point of view. When those participants notice what's written in an unrelated topic, they might reply in kind. Causing another discussion to sometimes degenerate into an insult throwing contest.

And then the topic originally being discussed, gets closed.

The moderators purged the thread at my request. That isn’t good enough, I don’t want to have to leave when I can’t stand the trolling (even when not directed at me) and I don’t want to argue either.

It really sounds like an online forum is not for you. Twitter, google and facebook spend millions trying to achieve what you're after: creating an echo chamber with like minded people where you can have a 'discussion' online without being offended.

GA pilots! If you’re tired of it like me, make your voice heard!!!

We're trying, but you keep trying to close topics where we're sharing our voice.

In a perfect world mocking someone, their life and faith, not their flying, would result in a permanent suspension here.

In what kind of dystopian future do you want to live?

I don’t argue on Twitter ever. Zero strike policy. And it works great.

The whole point of a forum is to share information, discuss and argue. Really, what are you doing here if you don't like that? It'd be better to write a blog and share that. What *are* you trying to get out of AvCanada?

[gustind]

Respect to me earns respect back.

You've literally gone and slandered me in the past on this forum without having any sort of discourse with me or knowing anything about me. I find your statement about respect ridiculous and absurd.

[rookiepilot]

Respect to me earns respect back.

You've literally gone and slandered me in the past on this forum without having any sort of discourse with me or knowing anything about me. I find your statement about respect ridiculous and absurd.

If that’s true, you could block me. Same for you, Digits.

Your entire post makes the case for a blocking function.

Issue resolved.

[gustind]

If that’s true, you could block me. Same for you, Digits.

Issue resolved.

Or you can take responsibility for your actions, be accountable, and change your approach to this forum. Does creating a block function allow you to continue with whatever rhetoric you have without being criticized? I personally do not know you and I don't know what your agenda is, I'm merely expressing an opinion for the sake of challenging your approach to this. I have you on my ignore list, but I do occasionally read your posts to gain a potentially opposing perspective and maybe learn something.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Rookie

How I experience this forum and how you do seems to be quite different. If I had any beefs it is that it can be a bit boring, especially the interminable inside baseball discussion on the minutia around airline collective agreements.

I think of Avcanada as like being at the company Christmas party. There are going to be interesting and engaging people to talk to, condescending know it all's, tedious bores, and the odd person who is just too weird for me. I seek out the first and ignore the rest.

The one thing that IMO has deteriorated is the flight training section. There used to be quite a bit of good discussion on techniques for good flight training as well as lots of good discussion. Lately it has been pretty moribund. However I personally haven't contributed much to this forum so I guess I am part of the problem not the solution. I intend to correct that shortly and encourage you to do the same as by virtue of your experience bring a different but equally valuable perspective.

Finally I wish to note that your twitter feed is yours. You are of course free to manage it in any way you chose. Avcanada is not yours so while it is certainly appropriate to post ideas on how to make the site better I would suggest that it is incumbent on you to respect the wishes of other contributors. The verdict seems to be pretty clear and your responses to other opinions have IMO an unfortunate hectoring and uncompromising tone.

[rookiepilot]

What’s the clear downside to a block function?

I haven’t heard one.

[Tbayer2021]

What’s the clear downside to a block function?

I haven’t heard one.

That it simply becomes an echo chamber. I'm surprised a smart, successful businessman doesn't see that.

[digits_]

What’s the clear downside to a block function?

I haven’t heard one.

If A is having a discussion with B and C, and B and C have blocked each other, then A will be in a discussion where B and C will have non-logical posts. It wrecks the natural flow of a discussion.

Also note that posts are all publicly accessible. So you'd have *less* privileges as a logged in user than as a visitor. That does not make sense.

And lastly, blocking users won't help with the issues I mentioned in my posts above. Unless a user blocks all moderators (which likely wouldn't be possible), topics will still be closed if a user blocked to me derails them. The only difference would be that I can't see why it got blocked.

I don't care if your posts have an opposing view. I care if your posts lock topics because you're throwing tantrums when you don't like what you're reading.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

Rookie

How I experience this forum and how you do seems to be quite different. If I had any beefs it is that it can be a bit boring, especially the interminable inside baseball discussion on the minutia around airline collective agreements.

I think of Avcanada as like being at the company Christmas party. There are going to be interesting and engaging people to talk to, condescending know it all's, tedious bores, and the odd person who is just too weird for me. I seek out the first and ignore the rest.

The one thing that IMO has deteriorated is the flight training section. There used to be quite a bit of good discussion on techniques for good flight training as well as lots of good discussion. Lately it has been pretty moribund. However I personally haven't contributed much to this forum so I guess I am part of the problem not the solution. I intend to correct that shortly and encourage you to do the same as by virtue of your experience bring a different but equally valuable perspective.

Finally I wish to note that your twitter feed is yours. You are of course free to manage it in any way you chose. Avcanada is not yours so while it is certainly appropriate to post ideas on how to make the site better I would suggest that it is incumbent on you to respect the wishes of other contributors. The verdict seems to be pretty clear and your responses to other opinions have IMO an unfortunate hectoring and uncompromising tone.

Agreed.

[Tbayer2021]

Most of us commenting on this thread are all too familiar with Rookie's track record of committing every single offence he is complaining about. Disrespect, insults, mockery, disdain, trolling, I could go on. Someone even quoted him a bit further up. Its quite telling of the type of person he is when these thing only became a problem when people started responding in kind.

Here is an opportunity for a smart, successful businessman to serve what he thinks is an underserved market. How about it Rookie? Why don't you start your own forum with all the censorship features you want, if you think there is such demand for it.

[rookiepilot]

Rookie

How I experience this forum and how you do seems to be quite different. If I had any beefs it is that it can be a bit boring, especially the interminable inside baseball discussion on the minutia around airline collective agreements.

I think of Avcanada as like being at the company Christmas party. There are going to be interesting and engaging people to talk to, condescending know it all's, tedious bores, and the odd person who is just too weird for me. I seek out the first and ignore the rest.

The one thing that IMO has deteriorated is the flight training section. There used to be quite a bit of good discussion on techniques for good flight training as well as lots of good discussion. Lately it has been pretty moribund. However I personally haven't contributed much to this forum so I guess I am part of the problem not the solution. I intend to correct that shortly and encourage you to do the same as by virtue of your experience bring a different but equally valuable perspective.

Finally I wish to note that your twitter feed is yours. You are of course free to manage it in any way you chose. Avcanada is not yours so while it is certainly appropriate to post ideas on how to make the site better I would suggest that it is incumbent on you to respect the wishes of other contributors. The verdict seems to be pretty clear and your responses to other opinions have IMO an unfortunate hectoring and uncompromising tone.

Agreed.

If I take the time and effort to author a thread here, and I’ve authored a number of them — unlike many of the trolls who never author anything — it should be mine.

I’ll never, ever, ever share financial thoughts here again. That bridge was burned.

The outcome of doing nothing is less engagement, as you BPF have noted, on flight training. Why would a student ever post their dumb mistakes here?

Do we note how few people here actually start a thread? Wonder why that is?

[pelmet]

You’re gaslighting. Telling ME what I actually think, and deliberately lying to boot.

One of the most disgusting forms of trolling there is.

You make the case for a blocking function for me.

Call me what you like and accuse me of what you want to. But virtually every post here, including the ones from the more distinguished style of posters indicate the general feeling here.

It seems that Rookie has parallels to the poster formerly known as Rockie.

[Tbayer2021]

You’re gaslighting. Telling ME what I actually think, and deliberately lying to boot.

One of the most disgusting forms of trolling there is.

You make the case for a blocking function for me.

Call me what you like and accuse me of what you want to. But virtually every post here, including the ones from the more distinguished style of posters indicate the general feeling here.

It seems that Rookie has parallels to the poster formerly known as Rockie.

Rookie, I'll translate this for you since I know you're not as sophisticated as you like others to think.

"if it stinks everywhere you go, check under your own shoe"

[rookiepilot]

You’re gaslighting. Telling ME what I actually think, and deliberately lying to boot.

One of the most disgusting forms of trolling there is.

You make the case for a blocking function for me.

Call me what you like and accuse me of what you want to. But virtually every post here, including the ones from the more distinguished style of posters indicate the general feeling here.

It seems that Rookie has parallels to the poster formerly known as Rockie.

Rookie, I'll translate this for you since I know you're not as sophisticated as you like others to think.

"if it stinks everywhere you go, check under your own shoe"

[TG]

What’s the clear downside to a block function?

I haven’t heard one.

I'm one of those who voted no.
As an example, having blocked you I would have missed some of your good posts in this topic: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 4#p1270924 (About a lifetime learning when to fly)

You may head butt online with someone, not talking about bullying, but this person can still come up with good stuff on a different subject.

[rookiepilot]

What’s the clear downside to a block function?

I haven’t heard one.

I'm one of those who voted no.
As an example, having blocked you I would have missed some of your good posts in this topic: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 4#p1270924 (About a lifetime learning when to fly)

You may head butt online with someone, not talking about bullying, but this person can still come up with good stuff on a different subject.

OK.

I don’t know that I make any good posts, but I’d like to encourage much more (especially GA pilots) to share good posts on this forum.

I don’t block people who disagree with me on Twitter, BTW. Lots do. Only abusers, and it’s extremely rare to need to do so. They just don’t bother to post on my feed.

[PilotDAR]

If I take the time and effort to author a thread here, and I’ve authored a number of them — unlike many of the trolls who never author anything — it should be mine.

My bold.

I disagree. "Here" is not the domain of any of us. So, if one chooses to author a thread here, it is your gift to both the website, and the readers here - but, you gave it away, and can no longer claim it is yours.

I've had a few threads I have started end up swerving away from the theme I intended - Oh well... hopefully someone benefited from the main thrust of the original message, both mine, and early replies.

I occasionally hear my grandkids say to one and other: "It's mine!". I look at what the subject of the declaration actually is, and from time to time correct the darlings and redirect that it's everyone's!

[youhavecontrol]

I voted no to the block function for two reasons:

1. I see it creating an echo-chamber where a person only hears from the voices they like to hear. It's not a productive way to have a conversation, and it's part of the ongoing problem in social media where an algorithm leads a person towards extreme views without realizing it, because they are fed un-challenging content.
2. It would create fragmented threads, where parts of a conversation are missing context because contributors were blocked by the viewer, resulting in people repeating the same points or missing part of what's now on discussion.

What looks to be in place is a way to report threads or report users, which is how most functioning forums work. Whether it's effective or not here, I don't really know. We're all pilots, for the most part. It seems even the best of us sling mud from time to time and get caught up in our own emotions and ego, yet can contribute some great content in another post. I see the same nonsense and politics in a local flying club as I see on this forum. Welcome to aviation?

[rookiepilot]

If I take the time and effort to author a thread here, and I’ve authored a number of them — unlike many of the trolls who never author anything — it should be mine.

My bold.

I disagree. "Here" is not the domain of any of us. So, if one chooses to author a thread here, it is your gift to both the website, and the readers here - but, you gave it away, and can no longer claim it is yours.

I've had a few threads I have started end up swerving away from the theme I intended - Oh well... hopefully someone benefited from the main thrust of the original message, both mine, and early replies.

I occasionally hear my grandkids say to one and other: "It's mine!". I look at what the subject of the declaration actually is, and from time to time correct the darlings and redirect that it's everyone's!

And again, because I have not heard an answer, maybe I missed it:

What is the incentive for many more newer, inexperienced, or less than perfect pilots like me, to share their experiences and mistakes freely as a gift, for the benefit of others, when that post is almost certainly going to be hijacked by the large troll farm here for their amusement?

No, your intended audience likely may not benefit, because people are turned off by the trolling, and won’t even see your posts!

Right now there are 5300 people on this site. 5200 are unregistered guests.

100 registered posters out of 5300 are willing to engage, comment, contribute. On the entire site.

Does that sound healthy to anyone?

[rookiepilot]

[YouTube][/YouTube]

I voted no to the block function for two reasons:

1. I see it creating an echo-chamber where a person only hears from the voices they like to hear. It's not a productive way to have a conversation, and it's part of the ongoing problem in social media where an algorithm leads a person towards extreme views without realizing it, because they are fed un-challenging content.

Not true, (at least in my experience)

On Twitter I A) ask for and welcome dissenting views, they are how I learn, B) I pick my own feed and who I follow. Algorithms are not involved. Could be similar here.

To your other point, I doubt you see the vicious personal attacks in your local flying club in person very much, we see here.

Anonymity emboldens cowardly bully behaviour.

I think the fragmentation is a cost well worth paying, and it would fade over time as more people block the serial abusers

[pelmet]

If I take the time and effort to author a thread here, and I’ve authored a number of them — unlike many of the trolls who never author anything — it should be mine.

My bold.

I disagree. "Here" is not the domain of any of us. So, if one chooses to author a thread here, it is your gift to both the website, and the readers here - but, you gave it away, and can no longer claim it is yours.

I've had a few threads I have started end up swerving away from the theme I intended - Oh well... hopefully someone benefited from the main thrust of the original message, both mine, and early replies.

I occasionally hear my grandkids say to one and other: "It's mine!". I look at what the subject of the declaration actually is, and from time to time correct the darlings and redirect that it's everyone's!

And again, because I have not heard an answer, maybe I missed it:

What is the incentive for many more newer, inexperienced, or less than perfect pilots like me, to share their experiences and mistakes freely as a gift, for the benefit of others, when that post is almost certainly going to be hijacked by the large troll farm here for their amusement?

Personally,

I would encourage the people to stop encouraging flying club members to be sued into bankruptcy when there is an accident as a good starting point.

Troll haters like myself do try to fight off these people but get accused of many things.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... y#p1059951

And please notice the response to me in this link. Completely rude but basically what now needs to be said to him(quoted below). And there are many posts like this from him over the years.

Now he runs around complaining about being treated the way he acts. It is called hypocrisy.

This is a forum. We state opinions here all the time based on the known facts, which I have done. A lot of accidents have a load more speculation than this one has seen here.

If you can't handle that get off this site.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

I’ll add in my $0.02: i started browsing and following avcanada in the late 2000’s as I was starting my PPL. I’ve found the opinions expressed on this site (some dating back to old threads that have been buried long ago - but still very searchable!) to be invaluable in shaping my idea of how to best proceed with my training, best practices for shaping a career, and keeping a finger on the pulse of aviation in this country.

Fifteen years after first venturing on to this site, and ten years after starting a career in this industry, I still venture on here at least weekly to see what’s all going on and being said. I’ve seen everything from in-depth and well thought out monologues, enlightening technical discussions, long-winded/tedious airline contract arguments, to downright slanderous mudslinging.

The membership of this board includes people from all walks of life: those with no experience, to those with a lot. People who are prickly, stubborn, and sometimes frankly pretty insensitive, to those who would go out of their way to help out a stranger without expecting much in return, and every shade in between.

All this being said: I voted “no”. I don’t believe this board is served by outright censorship via banning or blocking those you are offended by or disagree with. When threads have gotten out of control, the admins have exercised their right and ability to edit/lock/delete as they saw fit at the time. To me this seems sufficient. Things can get “colourful” sometimes, but you quickly get a sense for those who are just getting emotional, and those who are frankly toxic, and I think the community at large recognizes it and either pushes back against those hostile and/or unproductive viewpoints or just ignores them. In my opinion: that’s how this should work.

To those who wade through the muck, have stuck around, and have donated your time and opinions which so many like myself have found so helpful: thank you - you probably have a pretty good idea who you are.

[‘Bob’]

You’re free to start your own board. I think there’s another one out there for those former members who wanted their own echo chamber.

[local_yokel]

I am a GA pilot, this being my first post on this site.

I have been enjoying Avcanada for 5+ years now, however I voted no and will always vote no to any censorship of any kind. We are mostly all adults here. Very sad state of affairs the world is in when so many get offended so easily and cant take someones opinion as just that "their opinion". Also if you get trolled by the trolls that's on you.

I guess I am just old school and enjoy hearing all opinions even if I completely disagree. Avcanada has served me well in the learning department, and especially well in the entertainment department. The amount of Sh*t slinging the core group of posters on the forum do
against each other is pretty out of hand, but extremely entertaining.

Keep at you filthy animals

-LY

[7ECA]

I've voted no - not that I should be required to state that, let alone justify my vote...

Simply put, there's no reason to turn this forum into yet another internet echo chamber; there are already plenty of those out there serving to isolate and fragment user bases. Do I honestly believe a block function would turn this forum into a den of extremism, a la Twitter or Facebook or any other social media platform, no - but it would be a disservice to the community as a whole to fragment the user base and would ultimately curtail discussions and the free flow of information and opinions.

The forum already has a "block" function of sorts, it's called a foe list. It's basically a list that you can add users to that you don't want to interact with (or see their posts) and then anything they post will be hidden/minimized within a thread. It does give you the option of expanding their minimized/hidden posts in a thread so you can read things in context, though, which is handier than a full block where you won't see anything at all and context is lost. There's also the report function, which anyone is free to use if they find something to be so objectionable as to require moderation...

Ultimately, though, moderation of this site is a reactive game that relies on a handful of volunteers whom do a pretty damned good job, all things considered, in making sure things generally stay on track. Do I disagree with their decisions from time to time, of course; but all in all I'd say they do a pretty good job taking on such a thankless task.