Jazz Base Consolidation

[canadian_aviator_4]

Will jazz consolidate its bases into YYZ and YUL, due to self created staffing issues and a focus on eastern canada flying?

[fixnfly]

Will jazz consolidate its bases into YYZ and YUL, due to self created staffing issues and a focus on eastern canada flying?

Jazz still has a huge presence out west in YVR, I could definitely see Jazz consolidating the YYC base into YVR with the lack of flying and number of recent resignations. Or at least cut the CRJ base in YYC since it's pretty much all deadheading for anyone left on that list. AC still has a huge growing presence in YVR so I can't see Jazz ever leaving YVR

[QKZXKV]

Addressed in other threads:

YYC is on life support especially going into the fall. A quick look shows YYC-YWG now operated by an A320. The RJ will do the YYC-YEG for a bit. The Q will do its few departures to places like YMM, YQU, YLW etc... most if not all are 1 per day. The YYC base will probably be eliminated (I don't believe that AC/Jazz care about pilot retention in YYC).

YVR is interesting, there's a marked level of flying reduction in YVR. All the RJ transborder except for SMF are going to AC in the fall winter. The RJ will continue most of its domestic routes with AC flying a couple of them as well. The Q looks to be not changing. I'll be curious to see if this translates into a reduction there.

As I said in another thread, Jazz is becoming YYZ centric. I like to call them all Air Ontario again because it seems that's where the majority of the flying is headed.

Things always have a way of working themselves out.

[swervin]

No equipment bid. I was thinking YYC was going to be axed on the summer bid. Guess they’ll get there through attrition.

[QKZXKV]

No equipment bid. I was thinking YYC was going to be axed on the summer bid. Guess they’ll get there through attrition.

hmm interesting! Yeah it's going to shrink that way anyways!

[truedude]

No equipment bid. I was thinking YYC was going to be axed on the summer bid. Guess they’ll get there through attrition.

I didn't beleive for a moment either YVR or YYC wad in serious trouble. They don't close bases on a whim. It is a massive decision.

[rudder]

No equipment bid. I was thinking YYC was going to be axed on the summer bid. Guess they’ll get there through attrition.

I didn't beleive for a moment either YVR or YYC wad in serious trouble. They don't close bases on a whim. It is a massive decision.

Wait for January bid. Much more reflective of summer schedule.

[canadian_aviator_4]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

[truedude]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

Temp bases are done, and are no more! And they won't shut down a base and risk people quiting, which would happen on mass.

And they do still have plans to bring back m yyc-yqr and yxe. Also yuc ycd. And a bunch of other stuff.

I think buried in the earnings report is a signal they have decided to fix things!

"We are increasing our efforts to protect the customer journey from disruption, regardless of the cause. This includes using any influence we have, in such instances as pilot attrition at our principal regional partner"

It's time to stop ignoring the problem and get back to moving people and making money. I think they feel the same.

[TeePeeCreeper]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

Temp bases are done, and are no more! And they won't shut down a base and risk people quiting, which would happen on mass.

And they do still have plans to bring back m yyc-yqr and yxe. Also yuc ycd. And a bunch of other stuff.

I think buried in the earnings report is a signal they have decided to fix things!

"We are increasing our efforts to protect the customer journey from disruption, regardless of the cause. This includes using any influence we have, in such instances as pilot attrition at our principal regional partner"

It's time to stop ignoring the problem and get back to moving people and making money. I think they feel the same.

Your optimism hurts. I see it as a whimsical reading between the lines. Sorry for being a jerk but that’s my perspective from the sidelines…

[canadian_aviator_4]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

Temp bases are done, and are no more! And they won't shut down a base and risk people quiting, which would happen on mass.

And they do still have plans to bring back m yyc-yqr and yxe. Also yuc ycd. And a bunch of other stuff.

I think buried in the earnings report is a signal they have decided to fix things!

"We are increasing our efforts to protect the customer journey from disruption, regardless of the cause. This includes using any influence we have, in such instances as pilot attrition at our principal regional partner"

It's time to stop ignoring the problem and get back to moving people and making money. I think they feel the same.

If they felt the same pay would have improved to improve pilot retention.

[truedude]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

Temp bases are done, and are no more! And they won't shut down a base and risk people quiting, which would happen on mass.

And they do still have plans to bring back m yyc-yqr and yxe. Also yuc ycd. And a bunch of other stuff.

I think buried in the earnings report is a signal they have decided to fix things!

"We are increasing our efforts to protect the customer journey from disruption, regardless of the cause. This includes using any influence we have, in such instances as pilot attrition at our principal regional partner"

It's time to stop ignoring the problem and get back to moving people and making money. I think they feel the same.

Your optimism hurts. I see it as a whimsical reading between the lines. Sorry for being a jerk but that’s my perspective from the sidelines…

Time will tell. Jazz will be smaller, but I know what the CSAs at out bases are being told as well, regarding routes that used to be flown. Either way, we will know soon. They only have a couple months to start ramping up for next summer, which means they need to fix the core issue.

The economy has remained stubbornly strong, with advanced bookings strong. A lot of decisions were being made under the belief a recession was coming soon.

[rudder]

"We are increasing our efforts to protect the customer journey from disruption, regardless of the cause. This includes using any influence we have, in such instances as pilot attrition at our principal regional partner"

Their influence was a signature. It was not provided.

AC cannot seem to appreciate that for both mainline and ‘regional partner’ that WAWCON is now woefully lacking vs other opportunities for pilots. Flying the flag is great. But pilots have bills to pay living in the most expensive cities in Canada, and some of the most expensive cities in North America,

Other employers in other industries understand that COLA in the cities where they assign workers is a major factor in offered (and accepted) compensation.

Talk is cheap. Rhetoric is free. Get out the chequebook.

[rudder]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/462753 ... transcript

Chris Murray

Okay. That's helpful. My other question is just going to the regional network. Historically, this has been kind of slow and steady, but it certainly has always been able to get the job done. I guess a couple of questions on this. I mean is this a function of aircraft or people? Or what's going on in the regional network that's really affecting its performance as much as it is? And does this force a change into you looking to have to do what was historically considered a regional lift inside Air Canada or maybe a different view on strategy as we go forward?

Michael Rousseau

Chris, it's Mike. I don't think the strategy has changed. There's a transitional challenge right now with pilot availability. A series of factors cause stress on pilot availability at that level -- at that entry level.

One, flight duty times came in, which caused all airlines to -- in Canada to add 10% to 15% more pilots to fly the same schedule, given the new rules around flight duty time. Two, we have a lot of new entrants into Canada, all at the same time, who are flying bigger planes and can't afford to pay more money. And then three, during the pandemic, we have a very, very elaborate school system -- pilot school system here in Canada, which our regional partners is heavily involved in. And that didn't provide the supply that it normally would.

So we have this almost perfect storm that exists at this point in time. And so that has caused our regional partners to lose more pilots than they otherwise would to a higher attrition. And so as a result, we've had to make some modifications to the schedule. So we're working hard with our partner, Jazz, on solving that problem right now. And it will be solved, but it will take some time to transition.

On the operational side, if we have disruptions -- weather disruptions or anything else, we would typically want to cancel a Jazz flight because it impacts less customers than canceling a 777, for example. And so you will see higher -- in weather and other disruptions, you will see higher cancellations for the Jazz fleet, which makes it difficult for them to operate because it -- we also have to put those customers on another plane in the next couple of hours, in the next day. But that is trying to minimize the impact to our customer in weather-related disruptions.

[QKZXKV]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

Temp bases are done, and are no more! And they won't shut down a base and risk people quiting, which would happen on mass.

And they do still have plans to bring back m yyc-yqr and yxe. Also yuc ycd. And a bunch of other stuff.

I think buried in the earnings report is a signal they have decided to fix things!

"We are increasing our efforts to protect the customer journey from disruption, regardless of the cause. This includes using any influence we have, in such instances as pilot attrition at our principal regional partner"

It's time to stop ignoring the problem and get back to moving people and making money. I think they feel the same.

Your optimism hurts. I see it as a whimsical reading between the lines. Sorry for being a jerk but that’s my perspective from the sidelines…

Yeah I'm with you. I don't see any future out west for Jazz. The base is small and with the most pilots on the DB pension hitting the good years who will keep taking the whipping. They do not care about mass exodus at AC.

[Fanblade]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

AC is trying to ride out the upgauging gap by protecting YYZ, YUL and YVR and dropping other markets. It’s temporary.

-The pilot shortage drives upguaging because it drives up wages and with it CASM. The CASM increase is dealt with by spreading the increased costs over more seats thereby pushing CASM back down

- Logistically when you are short on supply of someone what do you do? Make better use of the supply. In this case put more people behind the pilots.

But aircraft orders to address the pilot shortage takes time. That time is the upgauging gap I’m speaking of. US carriers gave raises to regional pilots to create stability during the gap. AC went another route. AC decided not to raise wages at the regional level and instead accept the attrition. This meant they had to pull back or out of some routes. AC has chosen to protect its main hubs in YYZ, YUL & YVR. 737’s and A220’s redeployed out of places like YYC onto regional routes at the Hubs. The mainline FA’s in YYC are feeling the same pinch as the Jazz pilots in YYC. They too are concerned about the base closing.

But all of this is temporary during the upgauging gap. All of it done to avoid giving raises to regional pilots and then that rolling into mainline wages.

Eventually the upgauging aircraft will arrive and AC will redeploy back into places like YYC. AC will have repatriated some regional flying. Jazz will be smaller. Closing a base like YYC right now doesn’t make sense a year or two down the road. Maybe let it do some attrition in the mean time. When you hear management talk about the shortage being “temporary”they are referring to the upgauging gap as if the end state will fix the pilot shortage issues at Jazz. It won’t. Eventually attrition will breach whatever smaller size AC is planning for Jazz.

The only question left is hindsight on this strategy. Is the current operational chaos worth the wage savings? Is temporarily handing a market over to your competitors worth it? Are you giving a foothold to upstarts? Will they have to pay higher wages in the end anyway?

The question is how much pain is AC willing to endure for this strategy. Do they want to take this strategy into next summer? Is the strategy going to achieve its goal of lower wages in the end anyway?

They are committed to this winter. This fall is planning for next summer. Let’s see if they decide to reevaluate the strategy.

[truedude]

I ask because I don’t see a point for Yyc when there is barely any flying yet a lot of staff, with the majority being deadheaded to yvr or when able sent to temp bases in yyz or yul.

AC is trying to ride out the upgauging gap by protecting YYZ, YUL and YVR and dropping other markets. It’s temporary.

-The pilot shortage drives upguaging because it drives up wages and with it CASM. The CASM increase is dealt with by spreading the increased costs over more seats thereby pushing CASM back down

- Logistically when you are short on supply of someone what do you do? Make better use of the supply. In this case put more people behind the pilots.

But aircraft orders to address the pilot shortage takes time. That time is the upgauging gap I’m speaking of. US carriers gave raises to regional pilots to create stability during the gap. AC went another route. AC decided not to raise wages at the regional level and instead accept the attrition. This meant they had to pull back or out of some routes. AC has chosen to protect its main hubs in YYZ, YUL & YVR. 737’s and A220’s redeployed out of places like YYC onto regional routes at the Hubs. The mainline FA’s in YYC are feeling the same pinch as the Jazz pilots in YYC. They too are concerned about the base closing.

But all of this is temporary during the upgauging gap. All of it done to avoid giving raises to regional pilots and then that rolling into mainline wages.

Eventually the upgauging aircraft will arrive and AC will redeploy back into places like YYC. AC will have repatriated some regional flying. Jazz will be smaller. Closing a base like YYC right now doesn’t make sense a year or two down the road. Maybe let it do some attrition in the mean time. When you hear management talk about the shortage being “temporary”they are referring to the upgauging gap as if the end state will fix the pilot shortage issues at Jazz. It won’t. Eventually attrition will breach whatever smaller size AC is planning for Jazz.

The only question left is hindsight on this strategy. Is the current operational chaos worth the wage savings? Is temporarily handing a market over to your competitors worth it? Are you giving a foothold to upstarts? Will they have to pay higher wages in the end anyway?

The question is how much pain is AC willing to endure for this strategy. Do they want to take this strategy into next summer? Is the strategy going to achieve its goal of lower wages in the end anyway?

They are committed to this winter. This fall is planning for next summer. Let’s see if they decide to reevaluate the strategy.

Perhaps Porter lit a fire under them with their new Q pay. That will clearly decimate PAL and any hope they can simply farm out work for the next few years.

They are going to have to pay more eventually if they want the routes covered. Upgauging makes sense in a lot of places, not so much in others.

Time to fix the problem, rather than hope it will just go away.

[Fanblade]

Time to fix the problem, rather than hope it will just go away.

Agreed.

I was just trying to shed light on why the loss of flying out of YYC is likely temporary.