Shouldn't have been sent solo...

[pitottubey]

Based out of Oshawa Airport, 14 yo student sent solo on busy traffic day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgc2Wh4cOgo

[rookiepilot]

Well done by ATC….

[TeePeeCreeper]

Am I the only one a bit confused why her instructor wanted her student to be vectored to be on a 1 mile final at 1500 feet? I must be missing something….

TPC

[broken_slinky]

Well done by ATC….

+1

[digits_]

Am I the only one a bit confused why her instructor wanted her student to be vectored to be on a 1 mile final at 1500 feet? I must be missing something….

TPC

Perhaps local noise abatement rules. I found her power settings transmissions over the radio quite counter productive as well, perhaps even outright dangerous. Do you really want an overloaded, panicky student focusing on an RPM gauge?

Then again, the pilot did land safely eventually, and the instructor likely did know the student better than any of us. I'm wondering if the student will ever fly again.

[Babar350]

Am I the only one a bit confused why her instructor wanted her student to be vectored to be on a 1 mile final at 1500 feet? I must be missing something….

TPC

Perhaps local noise abatement rules. I found her power settings transmissions over the radio quite counter productive as well, perhaps even outright dangerous. Do you really want an overloaded, panicky student focusing on an RPM gauge?

Then again, the pilot did land safely eventually, and the instructor likely did know the student better than any of us. I'm wondering if the student will ever fly again.

At this point you don't care about any noise abatement rules.
The main reason may be to give the student confidence be helping her to know where she is and get her "back" in the loop with known land markings and power settings. Even though 1mile/1500ft seems high, that might be what the student was used to.
I don't feel she overloaded the student, she gave just enough information so se can land, and they all did well.

[digits_]

Am I the only one a bit confused why her instructor wanted her student to be vectored to be on a 1 mile final at 1500 feet? I must be missing something….

TPC

Perhaps local noise abatement rules. I found her power settings transmissions over the radio quite counter productive as well, perhaps even outright dangerous. Do you really want an overloaded, panicky student focusing on an RPM gauge?

Then again, the pilot did land safely eventually, and the instructor likely did know the student better than any of us. I'm wondering if the student will ever fly again.

At this point you don't care about any noise abatement rules.

Well yes, of course. But if the student was used to 1500ft / 1 mile due to noise abatement rules, then it would make sense to try and keep everything as familiar as possible during this incident.

[NotDirty!]

At 1500’, 1 mile back, you wouldn’t be able to see the runway over the nose! That is about a 15 degree flight path angle to land! I know 3 degrees feels shallow in a piston single, but even 5 degrees is quite steep…

[digits_]

At 1500’, 1 mile back, you wouldn’t be able to see the runway over the nose! That is about a 15 degree flight path angle to land! I know 3 degrees feels shallow in a piston single, but even 5 degrees is quite steep…

Oshawa is at 460 AMSL elevation. At one point in the conversation she's asking to put the plane at 1000ft (at 2:06 in the clip) above the blue buildings (1 mile back). That makes sense. There were some confusing parts in the transcripts though.

[Aviatard]

At 1500’, 1 mile back, you wouldn’t be able to see the runway over the nose! That is about a 15 degree flight path angle to land! I know 3 degrees feels shallow in a piston single, but even 5 degrees is quite steep…

1500 ASL

[NotDirty!]

Ok… but that’s still 10 degrees!

[rookiepilot]

Here come the armchair critics.

Can’t anyone say the instructor, and especially ATC did an amazing job here?

[digits_]

Ok… but that’s still 10 degrees!

Where are you getting the 1500 ft/1000 AGL at 1 NM from?

1000 ft / 500 AGL at 1 NM is fairly normal.

[NotDirty!]

[quote=NotDirty! post_id=<a href="tel:1271838">1271838</a> time=<a href="tel:1692052116">1692052116</a> user_id=44305]
Ok… but that’s still 10 degrees!

Where are you getting the 1500 ft/1000 AGL at 1 NM from?

1000 ft / 500 AGL at 1 NM is fairly normal.
[/quote]

Am I the only one a bit confused why her instructor wanted her student to be vectored to be on a 1 mile final at 1500 feet? I must be missing something….

TPC

Perhaps local noise abatement rules. I found her power settings transmissions over the radio quite counter productive as well, perhaps even outright dangerous. Do you really want an overloaded, panicky student focusing on an RPM gauge?

Then again, the pilot did land safely eventually, and the instructor likely did know the student better than any of us. I'm wondering if the student will ever fly again.

At this point you don't care about any noise abatement rules.
The main reason may be to give the student confidence be helping her to know where she is and get her "back" in the loop with known land markings and power settings. Even though 1mile/1500ft seems high, that might be what the student was used to.
I don't feel she overloaded the student, she gave just enough information so se can land, and they all did well.

[digits_]

Where are you getting the 1500 ft/1000 AGL at 1 NM from?

Perhaps local noise abatement rules. I found her power settings transmissions over the radio quite counter productive as well, perhaps even outright dangerous. Do you really want an overloaded, panicky student focusing on an RPM gauge?

Then again, the pilot did land safely eventually, and the instructor likely did know the student better than any of us. I'm wondering if the student will ever fly again.

At this point you don't care about any noise abatement rules.
The main reason may be to give the student confidence be helping her to know where she is and get her "back" in the loop with known land markings and power settings. Even though 1mile/1500ft seems high, that might be what the student was used to.
I don't feel she overloaded the student, she gave just enough information so se can land, and they all did well.

There might have been a misunderstanding of the original quote. The clip mentions 1500 ft a couple of times, but not in relation to the one mile.

If you rewatch it, at 2:06 the instructor asks for the student to be at 1000 ft (500 agl) on one mile final. At short final the student was below the tree level, so there were no issues descending.

[pelmet]

Maybe something to do with this.....

https://www.girlstakeflight.ca/

https://copanational.org/oshawa-waterlo ... -aviation/

[digits_]

Maybe something to do with this.....

https://www.girlstakeflight.ca/

https://copanational.org/oshawa-waterlo ... -aviation/

I don't think first solos have anything to do with these events?

Do you happen to know the date of the incident flight?

[pelmet]

Maybe something to do with this.....

https://www.girlstakeflight.ca/

https://copanational.org/oshawa-waterlo ... -aviation/

I don't think first solos have anything to do with these events?

Do you happen to know the date of the incident flight?

No, but I suspect that the goal is first solos and beyond with great encouragement.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Perhaps local noise abatement rules. I found her power settings transmissions over the radio quite counter productive as well, perhaps even outright dangerous. Do you really want an overloaded, panicky student focusing on an RPM gauge?

Then again, the pilot did land safely eventually, and the instructor likely did know the student better than any of us. I'm wondering if the student will ever fly again.

At this point you don't care about any noise abatement rules.

Well yes, of course. But if the student was used to 1500ft / 1 mile due to noise abatement rules, then it would make sense to try and keep everything as familiar as possible during this incident.

Agreed. It just seems strange to have this panicked student come in well above the 3-1 rule…

[TeePeeCreeper]

Here come the armchair critics.

Can’t anyone say the instructor, and especially ATC did an amazing job here?

Hold on there Rookie,

This ain’t no *arm chair quarter back girl* routine… you already know that a mile back on a 3 degree CDA that she should have been at 300’ AGL not 1500 feet* ASL/AGL is a moot point in this case… the diff between both is less than 300 feet.

Unless Digits was hinting in the right direction (familiarity with prior training:
/approches) it does seem rather high at that segment of flight? Would you agree or disagree with that? High performance aircraft or a small piston pounder… 900-1500 AGL on a mile final dosent seem right to me…

[pelmet]

Can’t anyone say the instructor, and especially ATC did an amazing job here?

ATC did an amazing job. The instructor appears to direct the student to be one mile back at 500 agl at 20 degrees flap at 1800 rpm. Seems quite high with significant power and little drag. It appears that the student instead came in below the tree line on final, which seems more like near idle power was used. But a current 150/152 person might know better. I think the guy in the tower saved the day.

Do they really let 14 year olds fly aircraft solo? Not even allowed to drive yet? What percentage will panic if a real emergency is encountered?

[rookiepilot]

Here come the armchair critics.

Can’t anyone say the instructor, and especially ATC did an amazing job here?

Hold on there Rookie,

This ain’t no *arm chair quarter back girl* routine… you already know that a mile back on a 3 degree CDA that she should have been at 300’ AGL not 1500 feet* ASL/AGL is a moot point in this case… the diff between both is less than 300 feet.

Unless Digits was hinting in the right direction (familiarity with prior training:
/approches) it does seem rather high at that segment of flight? Would you agree or disagree with that? High performance aircraft or a small piston pounder… 900-1500 AGL on a mile final dosent seem right to me…

Its a long runway. Sounds like on final instructions were sent to be at 1000 feet, Oshawa is 460 so 500 AGL…

It all sounded tailored to what was familiar, to calm the student down.

[broken_slinky]

You'd think having the student high with a bit too much power on a 4200' runway would be more ideal than low and slow where she could potentially stall out or sink too rapidly. There's trees at the approach ends of all 4 runways with 30 being the closest after 23.

[pelmet]

You'd think having the student high with a bit too much power on a 4200' runway would be more ideal than low and slow where she could potentially stall out or sink too rapidly. There's trees at the approach ends of all 4 runways with 30 being the closest after 23.

Maybe. Obviously the landing was successful although I suspect the instructions were not followed.

Still, one shouldn’t be going solo if they are going to collapse like a house of cards after an inevitable bad landing attempt.

I suspect these days, in an era where F’s are no longer allowed in school and the team that finishes last gets a trophy, we are likely getting certain targeted people pushed through in areas where the real world of the failures do exist, just like they always have, and will lead to disaster.

A distant second consideration for many with a different, dangerous agenda.

[rookiepilot]

You'd think having the student high with a bit too much power on a 4200' runway would be more ideal than low and slow where she could potentially stall out or sink too rapidly. There's trees at the approach ends of all 4 runways with 30 being the closest after 23.

Maybe. Obviously the landing was successful although I suspect the instructions were not followed.

Still, one shouldn’t be going solo if they are going to collapse like a house of cards after an inevitable bad landing attempt.

I suspect these days, in an era where F’s are no longer allowed in school and the team that finishes last gets a trophy, we are likely getting certain targeted people pushed through in areas where the real world of the failures that exist, just like they always have, will lead to disaster.

A distant second consideration for many with a different, dangerous agenda.

This is quite the set of extrapolations and assumptions from one (yes, serious) event, applied to one 14 year old, no?