Negotiations

[hithere]

You should probably read the Chairman’s message:
Chairman Message
MOS - 7

Fellow Pilots,

I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the overwhelming number of Pilots who engaged in our ratification process. Thank you.

When I delivered the ratification results to the Company this morning, I clarified with them that ratification was successful, not because it was the best deal, but because the majority of our Pilots viewed this as the least threatening scenario given Air Canada’s control with respect to our collective bargaining reality.

Although the successful ratification of MOS-7 is a step in the right direction, it does not meet the needs of the Pilots nor the Company. It also does not keep us competitive with pilot wages in Canada. It appears that Air Canada believes their brand has value all on its own, and they can pay less to anyone who flies their passengers because of the paint on the tail.

As I’ve heard from many of you, we also believe that MOS-7 harms the Company’s ability to attract and retain good candidates, especially Captain qualified candidates. We expect that the majority who seek a career at Air Canada likely understand they may be better excluding Jazz from their career progression – and they may have a better chance of getting to Air Canada sooner by going elsewhere. Air Canada management has not held up their end of the bargain from 2019. They committed to a 60% ratio that was not honoured. Why would any prospective Pilot believe that the new 30% ratio will be honoured? New pilots to the industry have several options to build their career where pay is superior to Jazz, despite this increase in compensation. Air Canada management has also made it clear with their recent actions that even the obligations in the CPA with respect to fleet and exclusivity are not exactly guarantees. Pilots want to work for an airline with a bright and promising future. For these reasons and others, the MEC does not believe this MOS-7 fixes the Company’s problems.

Throughout the entire negotiating process, we attempted to address the Company and Air Canada’s repudiation of the 60% hiring provisions; a foundational element of our collective agreement since MOS-4 in 2019. We have tried to resolve the matter in good-faith as four-parties, and in good-faith collective bargaining. In each forum, we were unable to gain traction in any meaningful discussion. Air Canada management shows no willingness to uphold their commitments nor bargain a remedy. Further, the PAL Airlines CPA with Air Canada also remains unresolved. Air Canada’s violation of the Jazz CPA respecting exclusivity – another pillar of our past collective bargaining efforts – leaves Jazz Pilots with no recourse other than external intervention.

Today, ALPA filed an Unfair Labour Practice complaint against both Jazz Aviation and Air Canada. The complaint focuses on the two fundamental issues above which remain unresolved in the collective bargaining process.

Normally, at the end of collective bargaining, relationships are repaired and litigation and pending litigation are resolved. However, this round of collective bargaining is anything but normal. Our bargaining relationship will continue to remain strained until three main points are properly addressed:
Our pay is in line with the new industry reality;
The 60% flow obligation is addressed; and,
Our exclusivity until the end of 2025 is honoured.
Your MEC is available and remains committed to discussions on these points with all parties.

Usually, a successful ratification is met with satisfaction and optimism. I must say that I personally have never felt like I do now after a ratification. I am experiencing a mix of emotions, as I am pleased that many of our members will receive a much needed raise that they deserve. However, even with the positive advancements in this agreement, I believe it falls short of what is needed to right this ship, our airline. When the Company met with the MEC on August 15, the mood reflected a clear concern for our airline. Many of us stayed at Jazz because we were proud of this Company. Unfortunately, it is hard to be proud now as we are a shell of what we once were. The CPA business model has and continues to drain the character and culture out of our rich 92-year-old legacy.

However, there is still reason for optimism. The Air Canada Pilots joining ALPA and the support their MEC has shown us throughout this process is something I can't recall ever happening. The recent ACA MEC message reinforces their support and willingness to not only be part of a solution, but more importantly leading it. Our relationship has never been closer and continues to grow. I feel we are finally on the same page when it comes to moving this profession in the right direction. This relationship is critical to building a better future whether you are an Air Canada Pilot or a Jazz Pilot.

As we move forward, we will look for further bargaining opportunities. We will also look forward to supporting the ACA MEC and their Pilot group as they move closer to achieving an agreement.

On behalf of the MEC thank you again for your engagement.

In solidarity,

Claude

[CanadaAir]

Forgetting?

Majority of Jazz pilots voted for a $7 to $8 hourly pay reduction for pilots hired after 2015, year 1 captains & year 1 fo.

There're posts calling this MOS a large raise compared to the current scale.
It's smaller increase compared to the pre 2015 pay rates inflation adjusted.

The majority of Jazz pilots voted for a salary decrease, many at AC now.

Over 50% of those voters were voting for the flow. It didn’t matter what was left behind.

25 years ago I was flying a D8. These proposed rates don’t even reach that inflation adjusted pay scale from 1999 even though the revenue generated per flight hour has nearly doubled. The big winner is and has always been the employer. They have achieved massive discounts owing to never ending burning platforms, friendly federal governments, and a tour through CCAA.

They will always go back to the same playbook. Always.

Still posts coming out calling it a 30% raise.


What's your opinion on AC MEC's memo they will support Jazz pilots, when many of those AC pilots flowed to AC after voting to reduce wages at Jazz & set the B scale?

[hithere]

Well 2015 was whipsaw at its finest, wasn’t it? The whole idea of working together going forward is to end the whipsaw once and for all

[sportingrifle]

Does ratification of a deal defining a 30% flow through compromise the ability to grieve AC not honouring the 60% flow through? I would think it may, you have just created your own “remedy.”

[hithere]

The 60% grievance only relates to the historical breach in 2022.

[sportingrifle]

Yes, I understand that.
My thought is that the judge is going to say; “ Hey, AC couldn’t offer 60% because Jazz was already cancelling 50+ flights a day last summer and costing the company tens of millions of dollars in lost revenue. (Remember, a company’s financial viability is the overriding consideration of an arbitration award) Now the parties have sat down and agreed to a more reasonable and realistic number.” Done.
I am not a lawyer, and time will tell. But I have seen a lot of airline labour arbitrations in my time and I think the acceptance of this MOA probably greatly reduced the chance of any meaningful remedy in this case.

[Fanblade]

Existential threat means threat to one’s existence.
That’s what it means. AC told the MEC this was their last offer to the Jazz pilots. Potentially if we had said no they would have continued on their upguaging/outsourcing parade. Clearly these exclusivity provisions that Jazz has mean nothing when we can’t even staff our own aircraft. AC/Jazz management believe this MOS will allow a more controlled reduction of flying down to the min 80 fleet that we have “guaranteed” (lol) from 2025 and beyond. None of the pilots or MEC believe that and 62% were willing to take the money now and wait until management figures out that this MOS does not stop the bleeding. That’s where we are at

Hopefully AC has shot themselves in the foot with their burning platform/existential threat negotiations, assuming interested applicants are paying attention.

I agree the sub par pay and in particular the 30% flow will not help attraction and retention.

But don’t underestimate the impact of perception when you employ a burning platform and then don’t immediately end the existential crisis after you get what you want. Or provide a path forward out of the the crisis that employees can rally around. Leaving the platform a blaze will accelerate people jumping off the platform and into the ocean.

If Jazz’s attraction and retention issues do not stabilize very rapidly this may telegraph to applicants that the existential threat is not resolved. That the burning platform is still a blaze and very real. Why choose an airline when you are concerned about longevity? Up until now stability has been a bonus for going to Jazz. For some it was a reason for choosing Jazz over an upstart. Now the longevity risk looks equal or even skewed against Jazz. ( Really just perception and not reality). The same logic applies to current pilots who may decide another opportunity looks more secure.

So yes the pay and flow issues are likely not going to fix the problem. The burning platform strategy employed by AC to get this deal may actually make the attraction and retention issues worse. The perception could easily be seen as the fire is not out.

Which will lead to more network mitigation and an increased perception that the burning platform is going to consume Jazz.

Of note. AC purchasing Jazz back from Chorus would likely extinguish the burning platform on the spot as it would demonstrate Jazz has a future. But this only solves the burning platform perception. Poor pay and 30% flow will remain obstacles for attraction and retention.

[Inverted2]

I voted NO to this agreement. This amount of pay increase (at the cost of working MORE!) will do nothing to retain or attract pilots with any experience. I am top payscale so I got 15% which is hardly a raise at all considering inflation.

As mentioned above all the dirty tactics and meddling by Air Canada management has probably made things worse and will dissuade more from coming here.

I’m not mad about the results. 62% said yes and I’m ok with that. I’ll take their money but it won’t change things.

[Westerncanuck]

I voted NO to this agreement. This amount of pay increase (at the cost of working MORE!) will do nothing to retain or attract pilots with any experience. I am top payscale so I got 15% which is hardly a raise at all considering inflation.

As mentioned above all the dirty tactics and meddling by Air Canada management has probably made things worse and will dissuade more from coming here.

I’m not mad about the results. 62% said yes and I’m ok with that. I’ll take their money but it won’t change things.

You are forgetting that all your benefits except STD will now be paid by the company. Your take home will go up considerably and that's all that matters, what's in your pocket at the end of the month.

And yes I agree this won't be the final fix. One step in the process...

[Nick678]

It is done. Now plan next steps.

Some are happy with the raise. Others are unhappy with the raise. Regardless, the extra $$ start getting paid to all Sept 01.

The CHR/Jazz press release made it sound like there is labour peace. But they neglected to include the simultaneous ULP filing by ALPA.

The fall/winter schedule reduction may provide a temporary respite from pilot staffing shortfalls. But the exodus will continue because the pastures are still much greener elsewhere.

This sad chapter has been a huge reminder of the risks and shortcomings of working for a CPA carrier.

Agree. Sad indeed.

Speaking of these next steps, can anyone shed light on what the ULP filing is like? What they have the power to do? Timeline?

I’m pessimistic of any government board and curious if they have the power to change things in a meaningful way.

Will this supersede the flow grievance or supplement it?

[crj_705]

I guess you’d have to be at Jazz to understand the very real existential threat we face

I would not have expected pilots to be this scared during the largest pilot shortage in the history of aviation.
You literally got scared into a yes vote

Don’t forget…our pilot rosters are 75% made up of pilots with less than 1,000hrs flight time no real aviation employment experience other than being in the circuit at 1,000AGL!

[Wingman]

Am I correct in my understanding that pilot wages are a cost directly covered by Air Canada through the CPA?

Even if this is the case, what is stopping Jazz from digging into their own pockets to help provide reasonable compensation to their pilots? Last I checked they produced a profit of their own.

[cdnavater]

Am I correct in my understanding that pilot wages are a cost directly covered by Air Canada through the CPA?

Even if this is the case, what is stopping Jazz from digging into their own pockets to help provide reasonable compensation to their pilots? Last I checked they produced a profit of their own.

Chorus is a holding company, the parent that oversees all their assets, Jazz does not make enough profit to provide reasonable compensation. This was done intentionally over the years, reducing the margin to capture the work that was farmed out to SR and GGN, now we have(had) the lowest entry pay and first several years, after year 6 I believe we beat all others doing the same work.
To answer your question, since Jazz is not making money, Chorus is pretty much breaking even there, there is no money to give from Jazz which leaves Chrous to up it from other profitable assets. As a business, I get it, the others are making you money you’re not going to take from them to give to another asset, you’re going to sell that asset trying to drag down the balance sheet.
Now the other part though, the leases that Jazz operate are mostly through Chorus, so if they lose the whole thing, they would find themselves with a bunch of assets sitting around doing nothing for a bit, that could drag down the balance sheet too.
Maybe something will come out of the unfair labour practice filing, it is truly unfair to watch a once great and desirable place to work start to fail because of their actions and then refusing to fix the mess they made.

[dontcallmeshirley]

we have(had) the lowest entry pay and first several years

That award might go to Air Canada now. A first year first officer at Jazz on the Q makes more than a first year first officer at AC on the 777.

[RoAF-Mig21]

we have(had) the lowest entry pay and first several years

That award might go to Air Canada now. A first year first officer at Jazz on the Q makes more than a first year first officer at AC on the 777.

Let that sink in...

It's absurd. It's infuriating. It's bonkers. It's a travesty.

My English vocabulary can't find the right word to describe that.

[cdnavater]

we have(had) the lowest entry pay and first several years

That award might go to Air Canada now. A first year first officer at Jazz on the Q makes more than a first year first officer at AC on the 777.

You know what that says to me, since AC wouldn’t sign off on the agreed to agreement, our starting pay must be just slightly lower than what AC is planning on giving in to for them.
We have no idea what the pay scale was, rumours were it was much more, but no idea. Maybe that will come out in the ULP filing.
But if AC said no, it’s because they couldn’t have Jazz pilots making more than what they plan to offer AC pilots, just my humble opinion.

[rudder]

we have(had) the lowest entry pay and first several years

That award might go to Air Canada now. A first year first officer at Jazz on the Q makes more than a first year first officer at AC on the 777.

You know what that says to me, since AC wouldn’t sign off on the agreed to agreement, our starting pay must be just slightly lower than what AC is planning on giving in to for them.
We have no idea what the pay scale was, rumours were it was much more, but no idea. Maybe that will come out in the ULP filing.
But if AC said no, it’s because they couldn’t have Jazz pilots making more than what they plan to offer AC pilots, just my humble opinion.

What AC ‘offers’ to the AC pilots will be of little concern to the AC pilots.

This round of bargaining will not be about company proposals.

[cdnavater]

That award might go to Air Canada now. A first year first officer at Jazz on the Q makes more than a first year first officer at AC on the 777.

You know what that says to me, since AC wouldn’t sign off on the agreed to agreement, our starting pay must be just slightly lower than what AC is planning on giving in to for them.
We have no idea what the pay scale was, rumours were it was much more, but no idea. Maybe that will come out in the ULP filing.
But if AC said no, it’s because they couldn’t have Jazz pilots making more than what they plan to offer AC pilots, just my humble opinion.

What AC ‘offers’ to the AC pilots will be of little concern to the AC pilots.

This round of bargaining will not be about company proposals.

True enough, I meant it more like if they approved more for us, the floor from where the bargaining begins would have been higher. I suspect after AC pilots have a deal, whether from strike(likely) or bargained they will revisit us if these recent increases don’t prove successful.

[sportingrifle]

My gut feeling is that AC/Jazz have played this masterfully - give just enough to nurse the operation thru next summer and then it doesn’t matter.

To understand why, you have to understand that pilot hiring at AC has always been the driver of all pilot hiring in Canada right down to flight instructors. The “trickle down” effect has driven Canadian pilot hiring for as long as I can remember. Except with AC hiring 900 pilots a year since COVID, it is a deluge not a trickle. Other than perhaps Flair and Porter who are actually expanding, most of the hiring at WJ, Transat, Jazz(indirectly perhaps), etc is due to companie’s losing pilots to AC. And that in turn causes companies like CMA and Pasco to lose people. And so on right down to creating openings for flight instructors and Beaver pilots.

But that is about to change. AC’s growth plan is 6000 pilots and with about 5000 already on the property, that’s a little over a years hiring. But to make the imperfect storm, retirements happen in waves - and in about a year the retirements dry up from highs of 100/year to about 35/year until 2029. So in a little over a year, AC hiring is predicted to go from 40 every two weeks to 40 a year. The pilot shortage in Canuckistan will be over. Jazz will only lose a dizen or so captains a year to AC. And they can easily be replaced by the captains now stuck at CMA and Pasco. The Jazz F/O’s will be stuck even if they do finally get their coveted ATPL’s. And if Flair/Lynx/? go under pilots will once again be a dime a dozen.

AC knows all this and as such are unwilling to spend big bucks solving a problem that they are betting is going to eventually solve itself. Of course lots could change this, the biggest wild card being Canadian pilots fleeing the country to greener pastures. But if the scenario I postulated does play out, AC pilots have very little time to leverage their bargaining power and the Jazz pilots just played their last hand.

[Hysteria]

My gut feeling is that AC/Jazz have played this masterfully - give just enough to nurse the operation thru next summer and then it doesn’t matter.

To understand why, you have to understand that pilot hiring at AC has always been the driver of all pilot hiring in Canada right down to flight instructors. The “trickle down” effect has driven Canadian pilot hiring for as long as I can remember. Except with AC hiring 900 pilots a year since COVID, it is a deluge not a trickle. Other than perhaps Flair and Porter who are actually expanding, most of the hiring at WJ, Transat, Jazz(indirectly perhaps), etc is due to companie’s losing pilots to AC. And that in turn causes companies like CMA and Pasco to lose people. And so on right down to creating openings for flight instructors and Beaver pilots.

But that is about to change. AC’s growth plan is 6000 pilots and with about 5000 already on the property, that’s a little over a years hiring. But to make the imperfect storm, retirements happen in waves - and in about a year the retirements dry up from highs of 100/year to about 35/year until 2029. So in a little over a year, AC hiring is predicted to go from 40 every two weeks to 40 a year. The pilot shortage in Canuckistan will be over. Jazz will only lose a dizen or so captains a year to AC. And they can easily be replaced by the captains now stuck at CMA and Pasco. The Jazz F/O’s will be stuck even if they do finally get their coveted ATPL’s. And if Flair/Lynx/? go under pilots will once again be a dime a dozen.

AC knows all this and as such are unwilling to spend big bucks solving a problem that they are betting is going to eventually solve itself. Of course lots could change this, the biggest wild card being Canadian pilots fleeing the country to greener pastures. But if the scenario I postulated does play out, AC pilots have very little time to leverage their bargaining power and the Jazz pilots just played their last hand.

Is WJ hiring going to be slowed in a similar manner?

[truedude]

My gut feeling is that AC/Jazz have played this masterfully - give just enough to nurse the operation thru next summer and then it doesn’t matter.

To understand why, you have to understand that pilot hiring at AC has always been the driver of all pilot hiring in Canada right down to flight instructors. The “trickle down” effect has driven Canadian pilot hiring for as long as I can remember. Except with AC hiring 900 pilots a year since COVID, it is a deluge not a trickle. Other than perhaps Flair and Porter who are actually expanding, most of the hiring at WJ, Transat, Jazz(indirectly perhaps), etc is due to companie’s losing pilots to AC. And that in turn causes companies like CMA and Pasco to lose people. And so on right down to creating openings for flight instructors and Beaver pilots.

But that is about to change. AC’s growth plan is 6000 pilots and with about 5000 already on the property, that’s a little over a years hiring. But to make the imperfect storm, retirements happen in waves - and in about a year the retirements dry up from highs of 100/year to about 35/year until 2029. So in a little over a year, AC hiring is predicted to go from 40 every two weeks to 40 a year. The pilot shortage in Canuckistan will be over. Jazz will only lose a dizen or so captains a year to AC. And they can easily be replaced by the captains now stuck at CMA and Pasco. The Jazz F/O’s will be stuck even if they do finally get their coveted ATPL’s. And if Flair/Lynx/? go under pilots will once again be a dime a dozen.

AC knows all this and as such are unwilling to spend big bucks solving a problem that they are betting is going to eventually solve itself. Of course lots could change this, the biggest wild card being Canadian pilots fleeing the country to greener pastures. But if the scenario I postulated does play out, AC pilots have very little time to leverage their bargaining power and the Jazz pilots just played their last hand.

Is WJ hiring going to be slowed in a similar manner?

Not just Westjet, but also Porter.

Jazz won't make it to the summer, let alone limp through it. We just lost 11 guys to WJ on the 21st. AC is taking 120 by the end of the year. Of the last 100 or so pilots hired, about a dozen had ATPLs. No one with experience or time are going to come here with 30% flow, and they definitely won't come here if they want to make Jazz a long term choice with the current pay.

If AC wants any sort of regional feed, they will need to be back by the end of the year with more money.

And as for AC wanting another 1000 to 1500 pilots... are there even that many ATPL pilots left that want to work for AC?

[Me262]

I voted NO to this agreement. This amount of pay increase (at the cost of working MORE!) will do nothing to retain or attract pilots with any experience. I am top payscale so I got 15% which is hardly a raise at all considering inflation.

As mentioned above all the dirty tactics and meddling by Air Canada management has probably made things worse and will dissuade more from coming here.

I’m not mad about the results. 62% said yes and I’m ok with that. I’ll take their money but it won’t change things.

Will do nothing to retain or attract pilots? Maybe for 10year+ on the payscale, but a new or young FO already with Jazz or Captain, this is a great improvement.

Where is this "greener" pasture that everyone is talking about? I know Porter just came up with a payscale, and while not familiar with it, I believe it starts at barely 70k? So less than 5k difference. WJ Encore starts at payscale 3 and even with 850/m extra, it's a 57k start vs Jazz new 65k. Not sure if Encore is due for a new contract. I strongly believe the other 38% who said no are vets that their increase is only single or low 2 digit, vs instane 50% increase for someone just starting.

And if Jazz is so hurting, how come their hiring process still takes several months, which includes the sim eval which no other airline is doing? Grass is greener I guess...

[twa22]

But that is about to change. AC’s growth plan is 6000 pilots and with about 5000 already on the property

For now... who's to say things won't change in the future and the demand will once again exceed expectation? Just look at 2020, no one forecasted aviation to be back to where it is today, all the "experts" predicted summer 2024 or beyond for a recovery to even begin happening. Recent articles have suggested people don't even care about the supposed incoming recession, travel will continue to be on their list of priorities, and I can personally back this up with people my age, in debt, who could care less and continue to spend money on multiple trips a year. Yes I know, my sample size is small, but it's there and I can't discredit it

Personally, I don't see air travel taking as big of a hit in the near future unless something like a pandemic happens again. Times have changed drastically, we are in a globalized world, with a new generation that is more interested in travel and experiences, versus staying at home, working, and going to their cottage...

[QKZXKV]

But that is about to change. AC’s growth plan is 6000 pilots and with about 5000 already on the property

For now... who's to say things won't change in the future and the demand will once again exceed expectation? Just look at 2020, no one forecasted aviation to be back to where it is today, all the "experts" predicated summer 2024 or beyond for a recovery to even begin happening. Recent articles have suggested people don't even care about the supposed incoming recession, travel will continue to be on their list of priorities, and I can personally back this up with people my age, in debt, who could care less and continue to spend money on multiple trips a year. Yes I know, my sample size is small, but it's there and I can't discredit it

Personally, I don't see air travel taking as big of a hit in the near future unless something like a pandemic happens again. Times have changed drastically, we are in a globalized world, with a new generation that is more interested in travel and experiences, versus staying at home, working, and going to their cottage...

Agreed, the constant threat of a recession is a tactic used as a weapon during negotiations to force concessions.

[jpilot77]

I voted NO to this agreement. This amount of pay increase (at the cost of working MORE!) will do nothing to retain or attract pilots with any experience. I am top payscale so I got 15% which is hardly a raise at all considering inflation.

As mentioned above all the dirty tactics and meddling by Air Canada management has probably made things worse and will dissuade more from coming here.

I’m not mad about the results. 62% said yes and I’m ok with that. I’ll take their money but it won’t change things.

Will do nothing to retain or attract pilots? Maybe for 10year+ on the payscale, but a new or young FO already with Jazz or Captain, this is a great improvement.

Where is this "greener" pasture that everyone is talking about? I know Porter just came up with a payscale, and while not familiar with it, I believe it starts at barely 70k? So less than 5k difference. WJ Encore starts at payscale 3 and even with 850/m extra, it's a 57k start vs Jazz new 65k. Not sure if Encore is due for a new contract. I strongly believe the other 38% who said no are vets that their increase is only single or low 2 digit, vs instane 50% increase for someone just starting.

And if Jazz is so hurting, how come their hiring process still takes several months, which includes the sim eval which no other airline is doing? Grass is greener I guess...

The Porter pay scale for captains on the E2 starts at 190 I believe, the crunch for pilots is actually a crunch for pilots with experience. Right now Jazz could hire as many 500 hour pilots as they want. The problem is that these pilots aren’t upgradable to captain for at least a couple years.