FO Private Jet or Jazz

[Penfouky]

Hi everyone, just looking for a little advice from the community here.

I am at a little bit of a cross roads. I am an 800 hour TT Pilot, currently instructing, and I have been offered a spot in Jazz’s October ground school, in addition to a position as an FO on a Citation VII jet. I am unsure which I should take.

Both jobs now offer similar compensation. However, the jet job would only be a commitment of approximately 30 hours of flight time per month in addition to the time required for flight planning and preflight briefing. I would not be expected to clean, maintain, or handle any other of the flight elements. Supposedly every flight is booked weeks if not months in advance, and it is not an on-call position. Both jobs are out of the same airport, so no concerns there. The position on the private jet has told me that I can continue instructing when not required, which would of course provide more financial opportunity in the short term.

Ultimately my goal will be to end up at a legacy airline, whether that be Air Canada or somewhere else.

The question I have is which position will be more beneficial for me in the long term? Any advice is welcome and very much appreciated.

Thank you very much!

[JHR]

If you take the job on the private jet you may find you change your mind and never go to the airlines.

[Man_in_the_sky]

As of sept 1st, Only 30% of mainline's new hire will come from Jazz.. Taking the Jet job would not mean a longer path to be honest... Only issue i would see is, getting to your atpl requirement with only 30 hours/month.

[Full Ins]

Opportunity on a biz jet would expose you to something different early in your career. If you can instruct on the side, you can avoid the Atpl hell you may endure to upgrade at Jazz. I’d investigate the jet gig. Training bond?

[YC87DRVR]

As someone who did corporate before the airlines back in the day, if your goal is to make it to the majors and you only have 800 hours, corporate should be the last route you take.
Say Air Canada would hire you at 3000 hours, that would take many years to achieve in corporate.
Sure you may grow to love corporate, lots of top notch guys/gals have, I still would not recommend going into corporate with that experience level. You will be stuck in the right seat for a longggg time before you have the time to upgrade and meet insurance captain requirements. A couple years flying king airs first from the right seat then a quick upgrade to the left seat then going to corporate would get you into the left seat quicker. Just my 0.02

[DanWEC]

+1. Exactly what I was going to say.
Also, you could end up in a scenario where you're a right-seat warmer to a one-man-show capt and barely touch a thing for a few years. That's wasted time. Not saying it's likely, but I've seen it happen.

[throwawaycorporate]

Also as someone that went corporate, here are my thoughts,

1) On a midsize jet, industry standard salary is 80-100K, if they are offering under industry standard this may be telling of the job.
2) 30 hours of flight time is relatively high for a corporate machine, this may be overstating the average. I have been flying charter/corporate since 2017 and am just approaching ATPL mins now.
3) Schedule - On the corporate side of aviation all that matters is days on reserve, how many hours is call out, and how many days off. Honestly, I can't stress this point enough. If the hiring manager responds "our pilots fly an average of 7 days per month" to answer your question on scheduling, it doesn't tell the whole story. How many days (in a row?) can you be in the backcountry with no cell service.
4) It is common for crew to maintain the commissary and cabin, especially when away from base. If loading bags and running to the liquor store to get vodka mini's is something that you're not interested in, you may enjoy corporate less
5) Vacation - Is it when the plane is down for maintenance? This is another red flat.

It's not all bad. Some of the best jobs in Canadian aviation are on the corporate side of aviation with pay that can exceed the majors. You have the opportunity to fly to many interesting places and usually have great hotels and healthy per diem to enjoy the time away. I get to look back at great memories like staying in massive villas with a private butler and flying to iconic airports like St. Maarten, but at the same time my partner wasn't able to travel often and what many people saw on the outside as "paid luxurious vacation" was actually a lonely and isolated experience. I don't regret the choice I made, but if I went the other route I could have potentially made it to AC with 500+ seniority numbers below me already.

My goal wasn't always a major airline, but now it is, and I'm still years away from being qualified to apply. Since your goal is a major airline already, know that going the corporate side will affect your seniority number in the future. My advice would be that if you want to accept the corporate position, at least push for 90K, and settle for no less on 80K, if they will not budget ~15K on a plane that cost hundreds of thousands yearly, it may be more telling of the operation in general. Who knows, you may end up loving this side and stay here long term, many do.

Happy flying.

[Blueontop]

Also as someone that went corporate, here are my thoughts,

1) On a midsize jet, industry standard salary is 80-100K, if they are offering under industry standard this may be telling of the job.
2) 30 hours of flight time is relatively high for a corporate machine, this may be overstating the average. I have been flying charter/corporate since 2017 and am just approaching ATPL mins now.
3) Schedule - On the corporate side of aviation all that matters is days on reserve, how many hours is call out, and how many days off. Honestly, I can't stress this point enough. If the hiring manager responds "our pilots fly an average of 7 days per month" to answer your question on scheduling, it doesn't tell the whole story. How many days (in a row?) can you be in the backcountry with no cell service.
4) It is common for crew to maintain the commissary and cabin, especially when away from base. If loading bags and running to the liquor store to get vodka mini's is something that you're not interested in, you may enjoy corporate less
5) Vacation - Is it when the plane is down for maintenance? This is another red flat.

It's not all bad. Some of the best jobs in Canadian aviation are on the corporate side of aviation with pay that can exceed the majors. You have the opportunity to fly to many interesting places and usually have great hotels and healthy per diem to enjoy the time away. I get to look back at great memories like staying in massive villas with a private butler and flying to iconic airports like St. Maarten, but at the same time my partner wasn't able to travel often and what many people saw on the outside as "paid luxurious vacation" was actually a lonely and isolated experience. I don't regret the choice I made, but if I went the other route I could have potentially made it to AC with 500+ seniority numbers below me already.

My goal wasn't always a major airline, but now it is, and I'm still years away from being qualified to apply. Since your goal is a major airline already, know that going the corporate side will affect your seniority number in the future. My advice would be that if you want to accept the corporate position, at least push for 90K, and settle for no less on 80K, if they will not budget ~15K on a plane that cost hundreds of thousands yearly, it may be more telling of the operation in general. Who knows, you may end up loving this side and stay here long term, many do.

Happy flying.

+1

Can get real old real fast

[Penfouky]

First of all, I would just like to thank everyone for the very insightful comments. So many of you on here have tremendous experience and to someone like me, who is absolutely fresh in the industry, hearing from individuals who have actually accomplished our goals is crucial. We really depend on you to help steer us in the right direction, and provide insight into the elements that are often lost in the marketing materials.

With that said, I ultimately weighed the pros and cons taking into account all of the comments left above. Short term value is definitely with the jet, as value for time is unmatched at my current experience level even before I attempt to renegotiate based on some of the advice from above. Not to mention the unique lifestyle, which sounds very glamorous, if only for a short time. However, I think long term the airline value is going to be unmatched. Having that foundational knowledge and getting taught procedures properly in a CRM heavy environment should only make me a better pilot. I also think the security and regimented control over my schedule will prove invaluable as I look to eventually build a family.

So with that in mind, Jazz it is! I have accepted the offer and will be commencing on October 30. If anyone has any advice, feel free to send it my way. At the end of the day, I feel it will be an easier transition to return back to the corporate world should I find the airlines are simply not the right fit. So who knows what the future holds, but at least it should be a positive step in the right direction.

Thank you again and wish me luck!

[Nick678]

It’s sounds like it’s a bit too late but Jazz is the last place to be if you wanted to go to Air Canada, keep that in mind. Jazz will get you to Westjet/transat/Porter tho

AC didnt followed the 60% flow before and I would bet they won’t follow the 30% now.

With your time, @30 per month you’d be at 1500 in two years and ready for anything. Plus you’d get to keep instructing for side income. Regional life doesn’t leave a ton of time to live your life.

[NotDirty!]

Congratulations, and enjoy your new position. If AC continues to hire as little as possible from Jazz, that doesn’t mean you have no chance of ever getting there, we have lots of ex-Jazz, via another airline, pilots here.

In the meantime, I highly suggest checking off as many of the ATPL requirements as possible! Encourage your students to do night training… have any instrument students navigate to another airport, at night, as those night PIC XC hours are the hardest to build for most.

[Little Star]

So with that in mind, Jazz it is! I have accepted the offer and will be commencing on October 30. If anyone has any advice, feel free to send it my way. At the end of the day, I feel it will be an easier transition to return back to the corporate world should I find the airlines are simply not the right fit. So who knows what the future holds, but at least it should be a positive step in the right direction.

Thank you again and wish me luck!

You have chosen wisely! As you are working as an instructor and have 800 hours TT, you should have no problem meeting all the ATPL requirements soon. You could be a captain at JAZZ logging jet PIC time in about 18 months and that will make you very marketable.

Bonne chance!

[Canadaflyer46]

Congratulations, and enjoy your new position. If AC continues to hire as little as possible from Jazz, that doesn’t mean you have no chance of ever getting there, we have lots of ex-Jazz, via another airline, pilots here.

In the meantime, I highly suggest checking off as many of the ATPL requirements as possible! Encourage your students to do night training… have any instrument students navigate to another airport, at night, as those night PIC XC hours are the hardest to build for most.

This is advice to be followed! Get those night PIC XC hours before you move on from instructing! Remember XC doesn't have to involve a landing elsewhere.

[cessna271M]

First off, congrats! I think you made the right choice. You are happy with your decision and that’s all that matters.
May I ask when you applied, did the interview, the sim eval then got your invite to the October groundschool?
How long did the whole process take?
I’m trying to see what I can expect. Thank you in advance!

[Penfouky]

First off, congrats! I think you made the right choice. You are happy with your decision and that’s all that matters.
May I ask when you applied, did the interview, the sim eval then got your invite to the October groundschool?
How long did the whole process take?
I’m trying to see what I can expect. Thank you in advance!

Thank you very much everyone, appreciate the votes of confidence!

With regards to my process and timing, it went like this:

- Application
- Interview given June 15
- Had to complete some assessments prior to interview
- Received positive response to move onto next step for sim evaluation on June 27
- Received dates of July 6, 13, 19, 25 for sim evaluation. Decided on the 13, but ultimately changed my mind based on advice I had received as it would have involved them flying me out to YVR for the assessment
- Sim evaluation cancelled on July 10 and changed to Aug 4 in Toronto. This was the first available date
- Had not heard anything by Aug 30, emailed and was told that due to the new contract things had been delayed
- Received offer September 7
- Ground school October 30

My partner for the day also had a similar timeline for feedback. However, he had to redo his MMPI.

[smooth]

Congrats!

If coming to AC is your final goal, I'll go to Jazz. First the salary is around the same as private jet company. Second, learn the 705 operation in early stage of your aviation career will be benefitable. We have couple new hires at AC struggling transitioning from 604/703/704 to AC in the beginning, it's not impossible, just that coming from jazz to AC has a smaller learning curve(The SOP AOM FOM etc.). Third, you will be flying probably more at Jazz, get your 2000hr and helpfully get to AC quickly.

All the best