Latitude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 pm
I flew for TS for 5 years and made the switch to AC.
I understand, from a business point of view, why they bond pilots. Is it wrong ? Yes. But I understand why the management does it. Either way there's a reason why pilots leave for AC; because of job stability, flexibility, money and prestige. No matter how bad AC flat pay is, the money isn't any better at TS when you start. Even if you make a few thousands dollars extra before taxes, the LTD kills your net pay and you end up making less than an AC pilot after all deductions. I'm not even gonna talk about the much better CWIPP (AC) vs the crappy RRSP match (TS).
And to that TS guy showing his earnings in the left seat doing overtime; that means 0. Any widebody left seat AC pilot will earn more than you do, and again that's excluding better retirement benefits, less deductions, etc.
Is it perfect at AC ? No. Some stuff definitely needs improvement (hopefully the current negos takes care of that) but overall, as a career, you're better off at AC.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
---------- ADS -----------
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
Latitude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 pm
I flew for TS for 5 years and made the switch to AC.
I understand, from a business point of view, why they bond pilots. Is it wrong ? Yes. But I understand why the management does it. Either way there's a reason why pilots leave for AC; because of job stability, flexibility, money and prestige. No matter how bad AC flat pay is, the money isn't any better at TS when you start. Even if you make a few thousands dollars extra before taxes, the LTD kills your net pay and you end up making less than an AC pilot after all deductions. I'm not even gonna talk about the much better CWIPP (AC) vs the crappy RRSP match (TS).
And to that TS guy showing his earnings in the left seat doing overtime; that means 0. Any widebody left seat AC pilot will earn more than you do, and again that's excluding better retirement benefits, less deductions, etc.
Is it perfect at AC ? No. Some stuff definitely needs improvement (hopefully the current negos takes care of that) but overall, as a career, you're better off at AC.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
Better schedule at TS hahahahahahah !!!! Glorious pre covid schedule at TS is gone. I saw 20 years left seat guys on the 321 in YUL doing reserve at TS last winter, and getting called for a bus deadhead to YOW to operate a clapped out 321 to PUJ. Most people work 15+ days a month during summer and winter (less during dead months like October - November). I did over 100hrs per month on reserve last year at TS and my blocks would come out at 80-90hrs constantly. It is not better than AC, at all. Specially if you're on the wide at AC.
I don't care about ''200K is enough money, you have a spending problem if it isn't enough''. If I'm doing the same job I'd rather have the extra money. If you'd rather work for less then good for you
Training bonds, bringing down Canadian pilot wages for decades.
Air Transat management, if you don’t want to loose your junior pilots to other carriers, then pay them a better wage than your competitors starting wage.
AT pilots, stop thinking this is your problem to fix. Stop justifying training bonds. Advocate for your junior pilots to get a better starting wage than your competitors. You actually want pilots leaving to go to any other Canadian operator. Stop thinking like 25 years ago.
Latitude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 pm
I flew for TS for 5 years and made the switch to AC.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
You are definitely a canuck because you are dumb as $hit
Any US airline pilot would drag you into a back alley and sort you out with a sock full of coal
Oh man this takes the cake as the dumbest comment on AvCanada and there are a lot of morons on here. Congrats!!
Latitude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 pm
I flew for TS for 5 years and made the switch to AC.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
You are definitely a canuck because you are dumb as $hit
Any US airline pilot would drag you into a back alley and sort you out with a sock full of coal
Oh man this takes the cake as the dumbest comment on AvCanada and there are a lot of morons on here. Congrats!!
Lol. Okay pal. I never said more money isn’t desirable. My point was everyone chooses different paths for different reasons.
Another keyboard warrior willing to insult and advocate violence but wouldn’t dare say it to my face.
---------- ADS -----------
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
Latitude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 pm
I flew for TS for 5 years and made the switch to AC.
I understand, from a business point of view, why they bond pilots. Is it wrong ? Yes. But I understand why the management does it. Either way there's a reason why pilots leave for AC; because of job stability, flexibility, money and prestige. No matter how bad AC flat pay is, the money isn't any better at TS when you start. Even if you make a few thousands dollars extra before taxes, the LTD kills your net pay and you end up making less than an AC pilot after all deductions. I'm not even gonna talk about the much better CWIPP (AC) vs the crappy RRSP match (TS).
And to that TS guy showing his earnings in the left seat doing overtime; that means 0. Any widebody left seat AC pilot will earn more than you do, and again that's excluding better retirement benefits, less deductions, etc.
Is it perfect at AC ? No. Some stuff definitely needs improvement (hopefully the current negos takes care of that) but overall, as a career, you're better off at AC.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
Better schedule at TS hahahahahahah !!!! Glorious pre covid schedule at TS is gone. I saw 20 years left seat guys on the 321 in YUL doing reserve at TS last winter, and getting called for a bus deadhead to YOW to operate a clapped out 321 to PUJ. Most people work 15+ days a month during summer and winter (less during dead months like October - November). I did over 100hrs per month on reserve last year at TS and my blocks would come out at 80-90hrs constantly. It is not better than AC, at all. Specially if you're on the wide at AC.
I don't care about ''200K is enough money, you have a spending problem if it isn't enough''. If I'm doing the same job I'd rather have the extra money. If you'd rather work for less then good for you
I spend less days at work and work less pairings in a month at TS than I would at AC. We’ll get more money. I like going to Europe. I like it here.
I’m glad you’re happy at AC. I’m not sure if I should even comment though. I don’t think I’m at the same level as prestige as you. Thanks for the laugh.
---------- ADS -----------
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
Latitude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 pm
I flew for TS for 5 years and made the switch to AC.
I understand, from a business point of view, why they bond pilots. Is it wrong ? Yes. But I understand why the management does it. Either way there's a reason why pilots leave for AC; because of job stability, flexibility, money and prestige. No matter how bad AC flat pay is, the money isn't any better at TS when you start. Even if you make a few thousands dollars extra before taxes, the LTD kills your net pay and you end up making less than an AC pilot after all deductions. I'm not even gonna talk about the much better CWIPP (AC) vs the crappy RRSP match (TS).
And to that TS guy showing his earnings in the left seat doing overtime; that means 0. Any widebody left seat AC pilot will earn more than you do, and again that's excluding better retirement benefits, less deductions, etc.
Is it perfect at AC ? No. Some stuff definitely needs improvement (hopefully the current negos takes care of that) but overall, as a career, you're better off at AC.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
Better schedule at TS hahahahahahah !!!! Glorious pre covid schedule at TS is gone. I saw 20 years left seat guys on the 321 in YUL doing reserve at TS last winter, and getting called for a bus deadhead to YOW to operate a clapped out 321 to PUJ. Most people work 15+ days a month during summer and winter (less during dead months like October - November). I did over 100hrs per month on reserve last year at TS and my blocks would come out at 80-90hrs constantly. It is not better than AC, at all. Specially if you're on the wide at AC.
I don't care about ''200K is enough money, you have a spending problem if it isn't enough''. If I'm doing the same job I'd rather have the extra money. If you'd rather work for less then good for you
To be fair the reserve block assignment rules are very different at both airlines. Can't do two consecutive months of reserve at TS pushes the block up the seniority list as an example. The new fatigue rules also brought some changes at TS that were not necessary at AC.
Latitude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 pm
I flew for TS for 5 years and made the switch to AC.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
You are definitely a canuck because you are dumb as $hit
Any US airline pilot would drag you into a back alley and sort you out with a sock full of coal
Oh man this takes the cake as the dumbest comment on AvCanada and there are a lot of morons on here. Congrats!!
Yes pretty idiotic & foolish to be arrogantly the lowest paid pilots on the planet
And zero chance after ALPA's next round of negotiating Air Transat will even be in the same ballpark as AC pilots
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
Better schedule at TS hahahahahahah !!!! Glorious pre covid schedule at TS is gone. I saw 20 years left seat guys on the 321 in YUL doing reserve at TS last winter, and getting called for a bus deadhead to YOW to operate a clapped out 321 to PUJ. Most people work 15+ days a month during summer and winter (less during dead months like October - November). I did over 100hrs per month on reserve last year at TS and my blocks would come out at 80-90hrs constantly. It is not better than AC, at all. Specially if you're on the wide at AC.
I don't care about ''200K is enough money, you have a spending problem if it isn't enough''. If I'm doing the same job I'd rather have the extra money. If you'd rather work for less then good for you
To be fair the reserve block assignment rules are very different at both airlines. Can't do two consecutive months of reserve at TS pushes the block up the seniority list as an example. The new fatigue rules also brought some changes at TS that were not necessary at AC.
I have no desire to switch jobs so I’m simply asking because I’m curious, when you say can’t do two consecutive months of reserve, can you not voluntarily bid reserve?
What are the reserve rules, do they make reserve undesirable?
I know at Jazz reserve went pretty senior until “best fit”, after that there was basically no seniority on reserve.
Better schedule at TS hahahahahahah !!!! Glorious pre covid schedule at TS is gone. I saw 20 years left seat guys on the 321 in YUL doing reserve at TS last winter, and getting called for a bus deadhead to YOW to operate a clapped out 321 to PUJ. Most people work 15+ days a month during summer and winter (less during dead months like October - November). I did over 100hrs per month on reserve last year at TS and my blocks would come out at 80-90hrs constantly. It is not better than AC, at all. Specially if you're on the wide at AC.
I don't care about ''200K is enough money, you have a spending problem if it isn't enough''. If I'm doing the same job I'd rather have the extra money. If you'd rather work for less then good for you
To be fair the reserve block assignment rules are very different at both airlines. Can't do two consecutive months of reserve at TS pushes the block up the seniority list as an example. The new fatigue rules also brought some changes at TS that were not necessary at AC.
I have no desire to switch jobs so I’m simply asking because I’m curious, when you say can’t do two consecutive months of reserve, can you not voluntarily bid reserve?
What are the reserve rules, do they make reserve undesirable?
I know at Jazz reserve went pretty senior until “best fit”, after that there was basically no seniority on reserve.
You can't bid two consecutive months and they can't assign it. If you have 4 or more paid activities in your month like vacation or training you can't be assigned reserve. You can't be on reserve until you first recurrent training is done if you are a green pilot.
All of these make it so reserve gets pushed up the seniority list
Rarely do people bid reserve at TS.
Our contract has a few different clauses that benefit jr pilots, like the reserve as mentioned above. We also can't hold more than 7 days of vacation between the last week of June till the first week of September. Everyone has to work xmas or new year before someone works both.
There's a lot of chatter about TS pilots selling out the young but in reality we've made a lot of changes over the years to even out the suffering and put a huge amount of bargaining capital into the lower end of the pay scales.
It's not perfect but slowly we make progress. I think that the next contract will bring huge improvements in order to attract and retain pilots for the fleet growth.
Well that depends on what criteria you are using. If a “better” career means more money, then AC is the choice. But if your bank account is priority number one, then AC is way down the list too. Go overseas or choose a different career altogether. However, if you define a “better off career” as spending more time at home and less at work, then I guess you’re better off at TS. Or maybe I should just go fly floats again… 7 months off!
200K, 250K, 300K… If you can’t live off these salaries, especially if you have a spouse/partner who is also working, you have a spending problem, not a salary problem.
And you left for AC for the prestige?? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! The prestige!!
You are definitely a canuck because you are dumb as $hit
Any US airline pilot would drag you into a back alley and sort you out with a sock full of coal
Oh man this takes the cake as the dumbest comment on AvCanada and there are a lot of morons on here. Congrats!!
Yes pretty idiotic & foolish to be arrogantly the lowest paid pilots on the planet
And zero chance after ALPA's next round of negotiating Air Transat will even be in the same ballpark as AC pilots
Pretty weak attempt at an inflammatory post. At least you got it half right with your username.
The reserve thing was a problem, but it was a result of a combination of things. I'd argue it was very temporary and is actively being prevented from happening again.
We were catching up on the back side of hiring pilots for the expansion and fatigue rules starting back from the covid shutdown, compounded by our green-on-green rules meaning no new hires would have reserve for 6-12 months after date of hire depending on hours flown. Our existing every-other-month reserve inherently means it goes higher up the list.
The green definition has/is being changed, and the 100 new guys hired in the last year are finally starting to come off it.
If you want to avoid reserve, you can always go on a reduced block.
These are small company problems that are difficult to avoid without scale and a labour buffer.
Hiring and "de-greening" is catching up, so the schedule "should" get easier on the 321 side. The 330 side is great, and I average 10-15 days a month. I have seen a few single digit months in the winter with turns only. But I completely agree that if the schedule would always be 16+ days a month on the 321 at TS, why not do 16 days a month at AC for more money, pension, and security! The 330 side is only 30% of the company now anyhow, so being on the equipment is a real roll of the dice, especially with expansion being all 321. There have to address updating and expanding the 330 fleet at some point, and there are rumours, including some actual paperwork providing the potential for 787s, but that's all they are for now.
In general, no small company can pay as much than a large company. It's the same across all industries. You want to be a Bay St lawyer at a gigantic firm you'll make more and work more than a small office in a small town, but you lose lifestyle, and maybe autonomy and freedom. Aviation is no different. So I would hope since they might not be able match salary dollar for dollar (Though in the last 5 years it's gotten pretty close minus the damn deductions) I HOPE they would be conscious that can continue to provide QOL offerings that offset the straight salary. If not, they'll continue to bleed to AC to the point their expansion will be capped because of a true lack of pilots.
TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:17 pm
Really a poor taste comment.
Nobody at TS likes the bond. But why would a pilot take a job here knowing the pay and conditions and then leave for AC shortly after? Why come to TS and waste our time if you’re waiting for AC? That’s just as disgusting as your comment.
Why would a pilot stay at a subpar paying operation?
Is Air Transat like North Korea and you aren't allowed to leave?
TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:17 pm
Really a poor taste comment.
Nobody at TS likes the bond. But why would a pilot take a job here knowing the pay and conditions and then leave for AC shortly after? Why come to TS and waste our time if you’re waiting for AC? That’s just as disgusting as your comment.
Why would a pilot stay at a subpar paying operation?
Is Air Transat like North Korea and you aren't allowed to leave?
TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:17 pm
Really a poor taste comment.
Nobody at TS likes the bond. But why would a pilot take a job here knowing the pay and conditions and then leave for AC shortly after? Why come to TS and waste our time if you’re waiting for AC? That’s just as disgusting as your comment.
Why would a pilot stay at a subpar paying operation?
Is Air Transat like North Korea and you aren't allowed to leave?
Another comedian.
I have a lot of friends at Transat but let's all be real
Until Transat pilots grow some....they will be the lowest paid widebody airline pilots on the globe with a margin that is growing by the day
Why would a pilot stay at a subpar paying operation?
Is Air Transat like North Korea and you aren't allowed to leave?
Another comedian.
I have a lot of friends at Transat but let's all be real
Until Transat pilots grow some....they will be the lowest paid widebody airline pilots on the globe with a margin that is growing by the day
Uh... how much are you guys making at AC on widebody from a 10 yr contract? What's the moniker? Pot calling the kettle black? Let's be real, this is a Canadian wide issue. And I wish AC pilots the best in their negots. It doesn't change over night, but it will get better in the near future with unity and with each pilot group feeding off each other gains. Hard concept to wrap your head around, I know!
I have a lot of friends at Transat but let's all be real
Until Transat pilots grow some....they will be the lowest paid widebody airline pilots on the globe with a margin that is growing by the day
Uh... how much are you guys making at AC on widebody from a 10 yr contract? What's the moniker? Pot calling the kettle black? Let's be real, this is a Canadian wide issue. And I wish AC pilots the best in their negots. It doesn't change over night, but it will get better in the near future with unity and with each pilot group feeding off each other gains. Hard concept to wrap your head around, I know!
After seeing Transat pilots blowing management I really have my doubts that they will get collective gains
TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:00 pm
It’s the same dork posting under different accounts, get bored of his Xbox and comes on here to kill time.
TFTMB heavy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:00 pm
It’s the same dork posting under different accounts, get bored of his Xbox and comes on here to kill time.
A small handful of these guys who sport more usernames than pubes have degraded this forum to dust. It's a real shame.
I've been on here for somewhere around 15 years. Got my first job through a member. The arguments and debates then were epic and relevant, and between people with 20k hours about TC, procedures, etc, people looking for tips on their first float jobs. Now look at this garbage. Honestly people, if you have to blow off steam, go to the gym or watch some German porn.
I'm not joking when I say there is a diagnosable personality disorder that manifests itself in garnering negative attention online. But on the plus side for Transat it's clear none of these guys work here, proving what we already know, that we've got a great group of people!
DanWEC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:29 pm
A small handful of these guys who sport more usernames than pubes have degraded this forum to dust. It's a real shame.
I've been on here for somewhere around 15 years. Got my first job through a member. The arguments and debates then were epic and relevant, and between people with 20k hours about TC, procedures, etc, people looking for tips on their first float jobs. Now look at this garbage. Honestly people, if you have to blow off steam, go to the gym or watch some German porn.
I'm not joking when I say there is a diagnosable personality disorder that manifests itself in garnering negative attention online. But on the plus side for Transat it's clear none of these guys work here, proving what we already know, that we've got a great group of people!
So just so we are clear...Transat pilots are happy being the Pirates of the Atlantic?
DanWEC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:29 pm
A small handful of these guys who sport more usernames than pubes have degraded this forum to dust. It's a real shame.
I've been on here for somewhere around 15 years. Got my first job through a member. The arguments and debates then were epic and relevant, and between people with 20k hours about TC, procedures, etc, people looking for tips on their first float jobs. Now look at this garbage. Honestly people, if you have to blow off steam, go to the gym or watch some German porn.
I'm not joking when I say there is a diagnosable personality disorder that manifests itself in garnering negative attention online. But on the plus side for Transat it's clear none of these guys work here, proving what we already know, that we've got a great group of people!
So just so we are clear...Transat pilots are happy being the Pirates of the Atlantic?
