co-joe wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:29 pm
I believe the purpose of a first CBA as a sched airline...
I don't understand why so many people qualify statements about Flair's operational performance or employment conditions with caveats based on the transition to being a scheduled operator, or even call them a "start-up". Flair is 18 years old. What difference does it make to the pilots that management decided to change the strategic direction of the company away from doing charters? No one should be comparing a CBA passed 17 years after the company's founding to WestJet's pay scale when they literally were starting up, especially since WestJet employees got stock options that made them millionaires. Flair pilots get nothing from helping the company's bottom line. Flair has been around since 2005, the NewLeaf flying started in 2017, and the switch to operating solely as a scheduled operator happened in 2018, which means the Unifor contract was the first as a sched airline. Give it a rest on the "helping the company get going" angle; management is squeezing you for the ownership's benefit.
The airline is completely different and doesn’t remotely resemble what it is now. This doesn’t mean the previous contract wasn’t horrible with low wages. It was. As mentioned earlier 2 years ago a captain was on 115k a year with bare minimum benefits. Disgrace. The next contract will have to be a massive increase in pay and benefits. Agreed there are no more excuses left. ‘This is a new airline now’ ‘ we need your support to survive’ etc etc.
To be fair, things have moved very quickly in the last couple years with wage pressures. Porter is a perfect example of what a company needs to pay to attract and retain pilots. And they might have to increase again in another year - who knows. Poor Flair will be left further behind as more pilots will leave and some very experienced ones that came over a couple years ago during Covid. If I was management I’d be very concerned about those experienced captains leaving. Time will tell but Stephen Jones should listen to his own advice when on BNN he said pilot demand and pilot wages are going up. Best of luck on the next contract and I hope you get a 30-40% increase. By then you’ll need all of that just to keep up with the competition.
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Last edited by Gameon on Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Smilin' Jack wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:27 pm
December bid is out. Half of the pairings are multi-day. Of the multi-day pairings, 100% are credited with less than 4 hours min daily credit.
So much for home every night. Didn't want to be home for my days off anyway. Not during the holidays.
From what we were told, I believe they'll manually correct the pairing credits by adding reserve credits in the schedules once they put them out. I think there's got to be a better way of doing this, but crew planning is showing their lack of understanding of their software.
This, to be honest, is not management's fault in my opinion. They bare responsibility for how bad things got but they are willing to fixe it.
the_new_guy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:51 am
From what we were told, I believe they'll manually correct the pairing credits by adding reserve credits in the schedules once they put them out.
Is this in writing anywhere? WHEN payroll screws it all up, can I direct them to a random post on AvCanada for clarification?
If that's the case, when you get an 85 hour schedule made up of 6 x 6 day pairings with 14 hours credit, will they correct it and build your schedule out to 145 hours credit? That would be a nice overtime cheque to pay for some christmas presents. Somehow I can't see payroll getting that right.
Relax everybody! I'm sure co-joe or tbaylx will be by any minute now to explain how the situation is just fine since Flair is the only airline to have proven the ULCC concept works, and how we're all just misunderstanding everything.
the_new_guy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:51 am
From what we were told, I believe they'll manually correct the pairing credits by adding reserve credits in the schedules once they put them out.
Is this in writing anywhere? WHEN payroll screws it all up, can I direct them to a random post on AvCanada for clarification?
If that's the case, when you get an 85 hour schedule made up of 6 x 6 day pairings with 14 hours credit, will they correct it and build your schedule out to 145 hours credit? That would be a nice overtime cheque to pay for some christmas presents. Somehow I can't see payroll getting that right.
You're planning on flying 36 days in one month?
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the_new_guy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:51 am
From what we were told, I believe they'll manually correct the pairing credits by adding reserve credits in the schedules once they put them out.
Is this in writing anywhere? WHEN payroll screws it all up, can I direct them to a random post on AvCanada for clarification?
If that's the case, when you get an 85 hour schedule made up of 6 x 6 day pairings with 14 hours credit, will they correct it and build your schedule out to 145 hours credit? That would be a nice overtime cheque to pay for some christmas presents. Somehow I can't see payroll getting that right.
Is this in writing anywhere? WHEN payroll screws it all up, can I direct them to a random post on AvCanada for clarification?
If that's the case, when you get an 85 hour schedule made up of 6 x 6 day pairings with 14 hours credit, will they correct it and build your schedule out to 145 hours credit? That would be a nice overtime cheque to pay for some christmas presents. Somehow I can't see payroll getting that right.
digits_ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:40 am
You're planning on flying 36 days in one month?
I shouldn't give management any ideas! Shouldn't drink and type at the same time - Meant to say 4 x 6 day pairings but even that is over the limit. The question stands though since there is no written guidence on how this is being constructed. Seems like maybe you'll get credit after the fact which will put you WAY over the limit for both overtime pay, days worked and TTAFB.
Since there's nothing in writing, payroll will probably just deny it and tell you to pound sand since you had a day off in Regina and you should be grateful for your quick upgrade.
You can’t work more than 3 of those 6 day pairings in a month. If you have an entire day off down route you get paid 4 hours for it. Most of the time you get a reserve shift in there anyway though.
ready wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:59 pm
If you have an entire day off down route you get paid 4 hours for it.
TBaylx is on record a few pages back noting that the company has no intent to pay the pilots for a day away from home if there is no duty attached to that day. This is what EK and QR do. you get lots of days off, most of them in Lahore Pakistan. Same thing here. You get a day off, it's just not at home.
Nope. Any calendar day away from home base that has no duty attached to it is credited at 4 hours. I think maybe you have misunderstood. It’s been explained several times lately in various forms around the company. They are not crediting like many of those overseas airlines do. That is completely false
ready wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:51 pm
Nope. Any calendar day away from home base that has no duty attached to it is credited at 4 hours. I think maybe you have misunderstood. It’s been explained several times lately in various forms around the company. They are not crediting like many of those overseas airlines do. That is completely false
Explain this pairing that yogi21 posted back a few topic pages;
IMG_8599.png (1.22 MiB) Viewed 23237 times
It’s a 5 day, worth 13. Or did I miss how flair rectified this?
ready wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:51 pm
Nope. Any calendar day away from home base that has no duty attached to it is credited at 4 hours. I think maybe you have misunderstood. It’s been explained several times lately in various forms around the company. They are not crediting like many of those overseas airlines do. That is completely false
Explain this pairing that yogi21 posted back a few topic pages;
IMG_8599.png
It’s a 5 day, worth 13. Or did I miss how flair rectified this?
Yes, you did.
tbaylx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:10 am
The schedule upload to NavBlue was corrupted and had to be added to the bid portal manually. The planning team was doing their best to get it all uploaded to NavBlue for the bid window opening. NavBlue doesn't correctly credit days away from base with no duty as they have been unable to set that up as of yet, so it requires manually adding RSV pucks on days away from base to generate a 4-hour credit.
That step was missed in the upload of the pairings. Once you so kindly pointed it out here, planning was made aware and will fix it.
This is a clear calendar day without a duty and so should have the 4 credit hours attached. This is not the same as the previous YVR/YKF pairing that has a duty assigned to each calendar day.
If you are aware of other incidents like this one, again please email your scheduling rep and/or the CP office and we will ensure that they are fixed. Or ask the question on our monthly townhalls. You're much less likely to get a prompt response to concerns on an AvCanada forum.
That trip you posted is over 21 hours credit. It’s a great trip for commuters. You can leave home after lunch on Day 1 and be back home for Dinner on day 5. I mentioned this before but last year at this time there was a big cry out for multiple day pairings. A lot of pilots are pretty happy about what’s going on in planning. We are starting to see a mix of everything. Unfortunately the posts on here tend to only be from the unhappy side of the group though. 3 nights in Cancun rather than paying for a hotel room in YYZ or YVR on your own dime seems like a plus to me.
ready wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:51 pm
Nope. Any calendar day away from home base that has no duty attached to it is credited at 4 hours. I think maybe you have misunderstood. It’s been explained several times lately in various forms around the company. They are not crediting like many of those overseas airlines do. That is completely false
Explain this pairing that yogi21 posted back a few topic pages;
IMG_8599.png
It’s a 5 day, worth 13. Or did I miss how flair rectified this?
Yes, you did.
tbaylx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:10 am
The schedule upload to NavBlue was corrupted and had to be added to the bid portal manually. The planning team was doing their best to get it all uploaded to NavBlue for the bid window opening. NavBlue doesn't correctly credit days away from base with no duty as they have been unable to set that up as of yet, so it requires manually adding RSV pucks on days away from base to generate a 4-hour credit.
That step was missed in the upload of the pairings. Once you so kindly pointed it out here, planning was made aware and will fix it.
This is a clear calendar day without a duty and so should have the 4 credit hours attached. This is not the same as the previous YVR/YKF pairing that has a duty assigned to each calendar day.
If you are aware of other incidents like this one, again please email your scheduling rep and/or the CP office and we will ensure that they are fixed. Or ask the question on our monthly townhalls. You're much less likely to get a prompt response to concerns on an AvCanada forum.
Tbayer2021 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:25 am
Relax everybody! I'm sure co-joe or tbaylx will be by any minute now to explain how the situation is just fine since Flair is the only airline to have proven the ULCC concept works, and how we're all just misunderstanding everything.
I've got nothing, good to know I still live rent free in your head though.
FOs is one thing but losing Capts is a major issue. Airlines should not lose captains and it’s happening at Flair. I have no idea how this airline will expand again under the current compensation package. Hopefully the new year brings more positive news for Flair.
Tbayer2021 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:25 am
Relax everybody! I'm sure co-joe or tbaylx will be by any minute now to explain how the situation is just fine since Flair is the only airline to have proven the ULCC concept works, and how we're all just misunderstanding everything.
I've got nothing, good to know I still live rent free in your head though.
Don't confuse being the provider of entertainment at your own expense for me thinking about you any further than your delusional claims.
Anyways, good to know they still have you trawling the threads to stand up for Flair.
Oh, quick question. Didn't you say you had put me on your list to ignore? Pretty clear who's living on who's head.
Gameon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:16 am
Resignations continue….
FOs is one thing but losing Capts is a major issue. Airlines should not lose captains and it’s happening at Flair. I have no idea how this airline will expand again under the current compensation package. Hopefully the new year brings more positive news for Flair.
Gameon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:16 am
Resignations continue….
FOs is one thing but losing Capts is a major issue. Airlines should not lose captains and it’s happening at Flair. I have no idea how this airline will expand again under the current compensation package. Hopefully the new year brings more positive news for Flair.
Gameon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:16 am
Resignations continue….
FOs is one thing but losing Capts is a major issue. Airlines should not lose captains and it’s happening at Flair. I have no idea how this airline will expand again under the current compensation package. Hopefully the new year brings more positive news for Flair.
Where are the majority of them going?
AC and Lynx
False… AC yep. Lynx Nope. Why do you just make claims that can be easily disproven? I would put Porter as maybe the number 2. But that was mostly in a 6 month span over the summer/spring. The attrition to AC has been going on the 5 years I’ve been here nothing new. Flat pay be damned.
False… AC yep. Lynx Nope. Why do you just make claims that can be easily disproven? I would put Porter as maybe the number 2. But that was mostly in a 6 month span over the summer/spring. The attrition to AC has been going on the 5 years I’ve been here nothing new. Flat pay be damned.
I know there are a number going to AC, but I have heard from Flair pilots that some have gone to Lynx and others to Porter, which doesn't totally surprise me. Are any going overseas? Sandbox is hiring again
