another black eye for the industry

[rigpiggy]

Methinks some training/annaul requal may be in order

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2280048195989

[altiplano]

I'm sorry...

A contrived scenario with a hidden camera and a quadriplegic is a new low for the CBC.

"Why is my experience not the same as yours."

Seriously? The experience is the same as you got point A to point B just the same and at the same price as the person next to you.

That you move through life with more difficulty because of your disability/injury/illness, that you require support from other people is not anyone else's fault and indeed they were there with multiple staff and expensive equipment to help move you.

It is what it is, and it's not easy to be carried on/off an airplane. Some things you have to roll with.

[Fly0nTheWall]

I'm sorry...

A contrived scenario with a hidden camera and a quadriplegic is a new low for the CBC.

"Why is my experience not the same as yours."

Seriously? The experience is the same as you got point A to point B just the same and at the same price as the person next to you.

That you move through life with more difficulty because of your disability/injury/illness, that you require support from other people is not anyone else's fault and indeed they were there with multiple staff and expensive equipment to help move you.

It is what it is, and it's not easy to be carried on/off an airplane. Some things you have to roll with.

So you say equality > equity. Fair enough, that's your opinion and I'm in no position to tell you you're wrong. But a little compassion never hurts either.

Commercial aviation exists solely to improve the standard of living for people (reduce travel times, connect people regionally/globally, etc.). Unfortunately society usually only cares about the majority of people. If the majority of people were quadriplegic, this would be considered a bigger issue.

And this being aviation, I would say the standard of service (the experience) isn't just getting from point A to B, but getting there safely. Otherwise a runway overrun on landing would be considered standard level of service..."What, you want a refund?! You still made it to your destination on time ". If a bag fell out of the overhead bin and hit you on the head during flight, that wouldn't be acceptable. So why is getting hit in the head with a lift bar considered a non-issue?

[Tbayer2021]

Clearly, the pilots must make a public apology on national TV and then proceed with harakiri.

[cdnavater]

I'm sorry...

A contrived scenario with a hidden camera and a quadriplegic is a new low for the CBC.

"Why is my experience not the same as yours."

Seriously? The experience is the same as you got point A to point B just the same and at the same price as the person next to you.

That you move through life with more difficulty because of your disability/injury/illness, that you require support from other people is not anyone else's fault and indeed they were there with multiple staff and expensive equipment to help move you.

It is what it is, and it's not easy to be carried on/off an airplane. Some things you have to roll with.

So you say equality > equity. Fair enough, that's your opinion and I'm in no position to tell you you're wrong. But a little compassion never hurts either.

Commercial aviation exists solely to improve the standard of living for people (reduce travel times, connect people regionally/globally, etc.). Unfortunately society usually only cares about the majority of people. If the majority of people were quadriplegic, this would be considered a bigger issue.

And this being aviation, I would say the standard of service (the experience) isn't just getting from point A to B, but getting there safely. Otherwise a runway overrun on landing would be considered standard level of service..."What, you want a refund?! You still made it to your destination on time ". If a bag fell out of the overhead bin and hit you on the head during flight, that wouldn't be acceptable. So why is getting hit in the head with a lift bar considered a non-issue?

I didn’t realize air travel was a basic human right, maybe all cars should come equipped with eye motion controls so quadriplegics can drive like everyone else, there’s no question the training should be improved but come on! I received training in this and with training moving non mobile people is very very very difficult and comes with a certain amount of apologies during and after. They we definitely trying to do a proper job with this passenger, at least in the part they showed.
The lift “hit” her head, barely the is definitely over dramatized and there’s a reason her experience is so different, she relies on others for support. Is her experience the same when she goes to the mall, or a restaurant or, or….

[Fly0nTheWall]

I didn’t realize air travel was a basic human right, maybe all cars should come equipped with eye motion controls so quadriplegics can drive like everyone else, there’s no question the training should be improved but come on! I received training in this and with training moving non mobile people is very very very difficult and comes with a certain amount of apologies during and after. They we definitely trying to do a proper job with this passenger, at least in the part they showed.
The lift “hit” her head, barely the is definitely over dramatized and there’s a reason her experience is so different, she relies on others for support. Is her experience the same when she goes to the mall, or a restaurant or, or….

Hey, I agree. I don't think flying is a right or that she should be expected to have the same "experience"...just the same level of service. That being getting from A to B safely.

And I'm not saying it's easy, and I appreciate your perspective. I've never used the apparatus myself. But for goodness sakes, we're talking about a chunk of metal hurtling through the sky at the speed of sound. I would think some fancy engineers somewhere can figure out a better way to get a paraplegic to/from their seat on said engineering marvel...that is if anyone cared enough to.

A bit of compassion, that's all I'm advocating for

[digits_]

I didn’t realize air travel was a basic human right, maybe all cars should come equipped with eye motion controls so quadriplegics can drive like everyone else, there’s no question the training should be improved but come on! I received training in this and with training moving non mobile people is very very very difficult and comes with a certain amount of apologies during and after. They we definitely trying to do a proper job with this passenger, at least in the part they showed.
The lift “hit” her head, barely the is definitely over dramatized and there’s a reason her experience is so different, she relies on others for support. Is her experience the same when she goes to the mall, or a restaurant or, or….

Hey, I agree. I don't think flying is a right or that she should be expected to have the same "experience"...just the same level of service. That being getting from A to B safely.

And I'm not saying it's easy, and I appreciate your perspective. I've never used the apparatus myself. But for goodness sakes, we're talking about a chunk of metal hurtling through the sky at the speed of sound. I would think some fancy engineers somewhere can figure out a better way to get a paraplegic to/from their seat on said engineering marvel...that is if anyone cared enough to.

A bit of compassion, that's all I'm advocating for

The most obvious/easiest solution would be to put them on the FA seat at the door. But that would lead to the moral question of what you'd be doing during an emergency.

Then again, if there's an emergency which requires rapid deplaning, they are likely in trouble in a regular seat as well. Might even be better to have them sitting next to a slide, while someone else pulls the handle and pushes them out the door.

[Tbayer2021]

I didn’t realize air travel was a basic human right, maybe all cars should come equipped with eye motion controls so quadriplegics can drive like everyone else, there’s no question the training should be improved but come on! I received training in this and with training moving non mobile people is very very very difficult and comes with a certain amount of apologies during and after. They we definitely trying to do a proper job with this passenger, at least in the part they showed.
The lift “hit” her head, barely the is definitely over dramatized and there’s a reason her experience is so different, she relies on others for support. Is her experience the same when she goes to the mall, or a restaurant or, or….

Hey, I agree. I don't think flying is a right or that she should be expected to have the same "experience"...just the same level of service. That being getting from A to B safely.

And I'm not saying it's easy, and I appreciate your perspective. I've never used the apparatus myself. But for goodness sakes, we're talking about a chunk of metal hurtling through the sky at the speed of sound. I would think some fancy engineers somewhere can figure out a better way to get a paraplegic to/from their seat on said engineering marvel...that is if anyone cared enough to.

A bit of compassion, that's all I'm advocating for

I think that compassion was there. I didn't see her being mistreated or disrespected in that video. I saw multiple individuals trying to help her. Can you really expect things to go smoothly every single time when dealing with a situation airport employees probably don't deal with that often? Seriously, how often do you think these individuals have to move a very large quadriplegic in and out of their seat? They're portraying this as an individual being purposely mistreated and injured because of her condition.

[Fly0nTheWall]

I didn’t realize air travel was a basic human right, maybe all cars should come equipped with eye motion controls so quadriplegics can drive like everyone else, there’s no question the training should be improved but come on! I received training in this and with training moving non mobile people is very very very difficult and comes with a certain amount of apologies during and after. They we definitely trying to do a proper job with this passenger, at least in the part they showed.
The lift “hit” her head, barely the is definitely over dramatized and there’s a reason her experience is so different, she relies on others for support. Is her experience the same when she goes to the mall, or a restaurant or, or….

Hey, I agree. I don't think flying is a right or that she should be expected to have the same "experience"...just the same level of service. That being getting from A to B safely.

And I'm not saying it's easy, and I appreciate your perspective. I've never used the apparatus myself. But for goodness sakes, we're talking about a chunk of metal hurtling through the sky at the speed of sound. I would think some fancy engineers somewhere can figure out a better way to get a paraplegic to/from their seat on said engineering marvel...that is if anyone cared enough to.

A bit of compassion, that's all I'm advocating for

I think that compassion was there. I didn't see her being mistreated or disrespected in that video. I saw multiple individuals trying to help her. Can you really expect things to go smoothly every single time when dealing with a situation airport employees probably don't deal with that often? Seriously, how often do you think these individuals have to move a very large quadriplegic in and out of their seat? They're portraying this as an individual being purposely mistreated and injured because of her condition.

True true, fair enough. Good points made.

[Hornblower]

The logical solution is to provide specialized dedicated aircraft, equipment, and specially trained personnel who are qualified to handle disabled people; similar to paraplegic public transport systems and services like Wheel-Trans or Para-Transpo. All would be paid for publicly, and dedicated to serve the needs of severely disabled people who want/need to travel at typical costs associated with transport of non-disabled persons. Commercial airlines and their personnel are not capable/qualified to manage severely disabled people who are not able to travel on public transit systems.

[Inverted2]

I’m sorry but someone with that many health problems should consider a medivac flight or travelling by ground. On a ventilator, quadriplegic, morbidly obese. Come on, there is only so much they can accommodate. What if there was an emergency evacuation? That person can’t move or breathe on their own and weighs several hundred pounds. How would they get off the plane if there was a fire?

Just more click bait from the CBC. Climate change, Covid, and indigenous stories must not be pulling in the viewers any more.

[DanWEC]

I watched the video. Nothing happened. Looks like a lot of people trying their absolute best to help her and you've got someone covertly recording it looking for a sensationalist angle, likely to ride the coat-tails of the recent AC PR issues? I don't mean to sound callous, but no respect from me when this sort of exploitation is at play, disabled or not.

[pelmet]

Get ready for billions more to be spent on this.

[Fly0nTheWall]

Get ready for billions more to be spent on this.

But is that really a bad thing? I guess we should just stop investing in cancer research too then. Is trying to make some people's lives a little bit easier really that onerous?

[altiplano]

Get ready for billions more to be spent on this.

But is that really a bad thing? I guess we should just stop investing in cancer research too then. Is trying to make some people's lives a little bit easier really that onerous?

Everything costs money. What additional service do you think someone should have to lift them out of the aircraft? How many more people do you think they need there?

Who pays for even more specialized service and equipment and aircraft modification to be used 0.001% of the time? Who pays for all this to be available 24/7 at every station, because that's what this business is, to deal with 0.001 percent?

[fish4life]

https://www.designboom.com/design/delta ... 6-05-2023/


Something like this is the solution, that lady in the video is huge and nobody can be expected to deal with her easy. Tbh I doubt she would have fit down the aisle of a 737 and probably used every inch of extra aisle width the bus offered.

[Old fella]

Personally I have plenty of sympathy for the airlines themselves on issues like this simply because they will be dammed if they do(transporting such passengers , subjecting themselves to “ investigative journalism “ if things aren’t smooth). If airlines decree that unfortunately they can’t accept the responsibility to fly people with serious disability issues because they are not equipped to do so, well the human rights lot( and tort lawyers) would have a field day. It is reasonable to assume flight crews and ground crews are not paramedics/ambulance attendants, certainly not trained as such nor should they be. Finally, one hopes the Government aka TC/ CTA don’t step in with odious disruptive impractical regulations.

[digits_]

Get ready for billions more to be spent on this.

But is that really a bad thing? I guess we should just stop investing in cancer research too then. Is trying to make some people's lives a little bit easier really that onerous?

Cancer research is a great example, but you're using it wrong. About 50% of people will be affected by cancer (either as patient or caretaker), so a lot of money is spent on finding cures for it. Ultra rare diseases on the other hand, always have trouble getting research funding.

Funds and manpower are always limited.

Both in medical research and in airline ops to cater to "rare" passengers so to speak.

[Fly0nTheWall]

Cancer research is a great example, but you're using it wrong. About 50% of people will be affected by cancer (either as patient or caretaker), so a lot of money is spent on finding cures for it. Ultra rare diseases on the other hand, always have trouble getting research funding.

Funds and manpower are always limited.

Both in medical research and in airline ops to cater to "rare" passengers so to speak.

That is a good point. I suppose if resources were unlimited, it would be an easy decision to make. Man, I do not envy Doctors/researchers who have to wade through the ethics of this kind of stuff and choose between what problems to solve.

[Fly0nTheWall]

Everything costs money. What additional service do you think someone should have to lift them out of the aircraft? How many more people do you think they need there?

Who pays for even more specialized service and equipment and aircraft modification to be used 0.001% of the time? Who pays for all this to be available 24/7 at every station, because that's what this business is, to deal with 0.001 percent?

Ya, that's true. You and digits make good points. I guess I was just looking at the situation from her perspective (and giving her the benefit of the doubt of actually having a terrible experience). If that was me, I'd just feel horrible too. But ya, you make good points. There are (and should be) limits to what the airlines are liable to provide in terms of servicing passengers. Maybe passengers can hire specialized, 3rd party individuals at departure and arrival who are properly trained and knowledgeable in boarding/deplaning individuals with mobility issues? Just thinking out loud.

[pelmet]

Get ready for billions more to be spent on this.

But is that really a bad thing? I guess we should just stop investing in cancer research too then. Is trying to make some people's lives a little bit easier really that onerous?

Seriously? Over 40% of people get cancer and it is compared to making things a little easier for someone wanting to have their airline travel as easy as the rest of us. This is the unrealistic thought process that costs billions.

What should we do. Have all airliners in the future twice as wide as now. Or half the seats?

Bad things happen sometimes. Some die in car accidents, some get cancer as a kid, some are murdered, and some have difficulty getting on an aircraft. It is not realistic to expect the same ease in life because it is not realistically possible. I'd say AC did a pretty good job overall and perhaps it is time to be grateful.

[Fly0nTheWall]

Get ready for billions more to be spent on this.

But is that really a bad thing? I guess we should just stop investing in cancer research too then. Is trying to make some people's lives a little bit easier really that onerous?

Do you actually consider your response to be intelligent? Over 40% of people get cancer and it is compared to making things a little easier for someone wanting to have their airline travel as easy as the rest of us. This is the unrealistic thought process that costs billions.

What should we do. Have all airliners in the future twice as wide as now. Or half the seats?

Bad things happen sometimes. Some die in car accidents, some get cancer as a kid, some are murdered, and some have difficulty getting on an aircraft. It is not realistic to expect the same ease in life because it is not realistically possible. I'd say AC did a pretty good job overall and perhaps it is time to be grateful.

Yup, you make good points. See my last two posts.

[tsgarp]

Perhaps it’s time to accept the fact that not everybody can do everything.

[RatherBeFlying]

These people make a wheelchair locking system that can be fitted to accessible vans: http://www.ezlock.net/

For aircraft a version could be designed to fit into the seat track. Of course, the regular seat would have to go in the hold (where the wheelchair would have gone otherwise). Engineering would be needed to ensure the seat track anchor could handle the loads. Then there's how long it would take Transport Canada and other aviation authorities to issue the required approvals.

Likely it would have to go in a front row as normal wheelchairs are too wide for the aisles and enough room would have to be available for passenger movement.

Bottom line: the passenger could travel in their own wheelchair with much less work for staff.

[cdnavater]

These people make a wheelchair locking system that can be fitted to accessible vans: http://www.ezlock.net/

For aircraft a version could be designed to fit into the seat track. Of course, the regular seat would have to go in the hold (where the wheelchair would have gone otherwise). Engineering would be needed to ensure the seat track anchor could handle the loads. Then there's how long it would take Transport Canada and other aviation authorities to issue the required approvals.

Likely it would have to go in a front row as normal wheelchairs are too wide for the aisles and enough room would have to be available for passenger movement.

Bottom line: the passenger could travel in their own wheelchair with much less work for staff.

It’s not just the device that’s needs to be engineered to withstand crashes, the wheel chair seat belts would need to be a certain standard, how do you guarantee that.
Aircraft seats are tested, how do you guarantee the wheel chair meets the standard, then you have the logistics of multiple fleet types and having this device for the entire fleet.
Then you have the weight and balance issue, there are many issues with accommodation for a very small percentage of the passengers pool.
If you have a disability, expecting to have the same experience as those without is absolutely ridiculous, it’s just not possible!