Dominos delivery driver vs KFC apprentice wages...

[chowda]

So I had this show up in a text....

https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q=pizza+deli ... 1458570658

Kelowna Domino's Pizza Delivery Driver
Pay
$24–$29 an hour
Job type
Part-time
Full-time
Shift and schedule
Weekends as needed
Night shift
Day shift
Monday to Friday


https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q=kf+aerospa ... 880d8f1338

Job details AME - M Apprentice- KF Aerospace

Pay
$22–$28 an hour
Job type
Full-time
Shift and schedule
Weekends as needed
Rotating shift

We're all about the crap!



So apparently a pizza delivery dude starts and tops out higher than a endebted apprentice at KFC.

[cdnavater]

I talked to a waitress in a cocktail bar recently who made between 35-45 per hour based on tips but she was still paid just over minimum wage per hour. I was curious obviously and asked so compare apples to apples, I’m sure the drivers are minimum wage or very close to it without tips.
Should an apprentice AME make more than 25/hour, absolutely but you have two choices, don’t take the job or strike for more when able, that’s the only thing that will change the wage environment.
“Income based on your achievement - you can earn between $24.00 and $29.00 per hour INCLUDING TIPS based on your efforts and how much you impress your customers!”

[chowda]

I’m sure the drivers are minimum wage or very close to it without tips

Then they are required to post what they(dominos) are paying. Nowhere does it say "including tips" in their ad but there is a chance you're right.

in any case, a pizza delivery guy is making as much or more than a apprentice

[digits_]

Then go be a KFC delivery guy if you prefer that job?

I'd be perfectly happy if a janitor made more than a pilot, because I would not want to do a janitor's job. It's only fair sucky jobs make more than more desirable jobs.

It's also perfectly fine to be unhappy with AME or pilot wages. But there's absolutely no need to compare yourself to other professions, especially not if you claim (or strongly imply) you're worth more than said professions.

[Pat Richard]

Ah yes, the perspective of enthusiasts.

You are the bane of this industry with your bottomless enthusiasm and mouthfoaming passion that keeps the logic side of your brains from functioning.

Liberal's by chance?

[cdnavater]

I’m sure the drivers are minimum wage or very close to it without tips

Then they are required to post what they(dominos) are paying. Nowhere does it say "including tips" in their ad but there is a chance you're right.

in any case, a pizza delivery guy is making as much or more than a apprentice

Actually it does, at the end of my post is the quote from the ad you posted, this is from the ad….

“Income based on your achievement - you can earn between $24.00 and $29.00 per hour INCLUDING TIPS based on your efforts and how much you impress your customers!”
This is also part of it…
“Your own clean, reliable, and well-maintained vehicle to use for delivering orders”

[anticlimactic1]

It's the classic story of David vs Goliath.

Pilots can't fly passengers without mechanics. Mechanics have to stop settling for low wages and let these Goliath companies fold or take a beating. If they have to cancel flights due to unserviceability and make up for loss thru raising fees, it will only last for so long. Union is important to take some weight off the little guy and should be a standard for all aviation Goliaths. Some of these wages you can tell they are only interested in taking advantage of people. Stop settling.

[ludivicchua]

Exactly! They want you to improve and be competitive, at the same time they pay you this kind of wage? Do you know how much expenses we have to foot to do this "job"?

I work for money right now, not for passion or ego! Everywhere you go, they will try to pay you as less as possible and demand more from you as much as possible, so I don't understand why someone would try to do more after having have learned all these from experience.

When I left aviation, I tried automotive (dealer) and I ended up leaving that as well for similar reasons. The only way to make good money in automotive is to work efficiently as a flat-rate tech (which by the way is not easy to do) and it will take time for you to get there as a starving mech.

Imagine this: all of them will work as hard as possible to be competitive, and this competition drives the cost of labor down. You are working harder to be poorer? You want more responsibilities, only for you to spend more, making you poorer?

[ludivicchua]

I'd be perfectly happy if a janitor made more than a pilot, because I would not want to do a janitor's job. It's only fair sucky jobs make more than more desirable jobs.

It's also perfectly fine to be unhappy with AME or pilot wages. But there's absolutely no need to compare yourself to other professions, especially not if you claim (or strongly imply) you're worth more than said professions.

AME and Pilot is an expensive job. Car Mechanic is also an expensive job (although not as expensive as Aviation). Do you know how much money a Mechanic has to pay for tools especially in automotive? Do you know how much money people in Aviation pay for type courses / type ratings? Do you know how much money people in Aviation pay to frequently relocate for jobs here in Canada? These professions are associated with big expenses and you're perfectly fine if a Janitor makes more? Are you crazy? They also work harder and the job is more technically intensive that you have to go to school to learn the book smart stuff (you don't have to if you can pass the exams which is unlikely). We also have to account for the regulations especially in Aviation. If they don't pay you enough, not only you will find it hard to survive, you will mess up your finances, which will eventually affect your ability to work and make improvements.

No it is not fine that they are paying me like this which is why I left Aviation and Automotive (dealer)! You will work harder and spend more money to be more broke for the prospect of being a fed (but still underpaid) Mechanic/Pilot?

Clearly proper resources is not being allocated for us to perform our jobs, better yet reward us!

[digits_]

AME and Pilot is an expensive job. Car Mechanic is also an expensive job (although not as expensive as Aviation). Do you know how much money a Mechanic has to pay for tools especially in automotive? Do you know how much money people in Aviation pay for type courses / type ratings? Do you know how much money people in Aviation pay to frequently relocate for jobs here in Canada?

All valid reasons. Really. Use those arguments to negotiate raises.

These professions are associated with big expenses and you're perfectly fine if a Janitor makes more?

Why not? Why/how would/should it affect your quality of life or happiness if a janitor happens to negotiate a better wage than an AME or a pilot?
Does it give you some perverse satisfaction in life that other people make less than you?

They also work harder

I'm sure some do, I'm also sure some don't.

No it is not fine that they are paying me like this which is why I left Aviation and Automotive (dealer)! You will work harder and spend more money to be more broke for the prospect of being a fed (but still underpaid) Mechanic/Pilot?

Clearly proper resources is not being allocated for us to perform our jobs, better yet reward us!

Excellent, that's the best way to eventually get salaries raised.

Why don't you go apply for the Domino's Pizza Delivery Driver job? Seems like you'll make more than your AME job, and you don't have to pay for tools.

[RLK]

Exactly! They want you to improve and be competitive, at the same time they pay you this kind of wage? Do you know how much expenses we have to foot to do this "job"?

I work for money right now, not for passion or ego! Everywhere you go, they will try to pay you as less as possible and demand more from you as much as possible, so I don't understand why someone would try to do more after having have learned all these from experience.

When I left aviation, I tried automotive (dealer) and I ended up leaving that as well for similar reasons. The only way to make good money in automotive is to work efficiently as a flat-rate tech (which by the way is not easy to do) and it will take time for you to get there as a starving mech.

Imagine this: all of them will work as hard as possible to be competitive, and this competition drives the cost of labor down. You are working harder to be poorer? You want more responsibilities, only for you to spend more, making you poorer?

I work for a automotive independent shop and make more than most dealership technicians. Dealerships are generally really bad places to work.

I have accepted what mechanical repair professions are. You will never get rich, but you also will never be unemployed. No one is going to pay you hundreds of thousands every year to fix things, but you can walk into almost any shop in multiple different industries and get a job. Every mechanic that I have met that chases money is just miserable.

Yes the pizza delivery guy is paid more than the apprentice. But that is all the delivery driver will ever do. As the years go by the apprentice learns new skills and his wage increases. He now make $40-60 an hour and has multiple employers fighting over him. While the delivery driver is still making $24 and has to complete with high school kids for new positions.

[ludivicchua]

He now make $40-60 an hour and has multiple employers fighting over him.

While this might sound good, let me explain: In Automotive, that pay-rate is based on book time, not regular hours like in Aviation. If you are gonna work for flat-rate, you are always gonna be racing against the clock and competing with your coworkers for jobs! That is stressful! In Aviation, pay-rate is based on your responsibilities. You need endorsements if you want to make more money! To make $35~$45/hr in the airlines, you need ACA! Apparently $45/hr is the highest you'll ever make in the airlines for such an expensive job!

I work for a automotive independent shop and make more than most dealership technicians. Dealerships are generally really bad places to work.

In dealership, we also have warranty time which sucks for us mechanics. Indie shops are cheaper but if a car is under warranty, they take it to the dealership because it's cheaper, and they also don't want to void the warranty with aftermarket parts/repairs by taking it to an indie shop. Dealership techs are better trained and specialized and often work with newer cars. Dealerships are owned by corporations and indie shops are owned by small private businesses, hence you are treated like a piece of sh*t in the dealership and it has a political workplace environment similar to Aviation.

I have never worked for indie shops but I started in the dealer. I ended up leaving it!

I'm curious, are indie shops flat-rated?

[RLK]

He now make $40-60 an hour and has multiple employers fighting over him.

While this might sound good, let me explain: In Automotive, that pay-rate is based on book time, not regular hours like in Aviation. If you are gonna work for flat-rate, you are always gonna be racing against the clock and competing with your coworkers for jobs! That is stressful! In Aviation, pay-rate is based on your responsibilities. You need endorsements if you want to make more money! To make $35~$45/hr in the airlines, you need ACA! Apparently $45/hr is the highest you'll ever make in the airlines for such an expensive job!

I work for a automotive independent shop and make more than most dealership technicians. Dealerships are generally really bad places to work.

In dealership, we also have warranty time which sucks for us mechanics. Indie shops are cheaper but if a car is under warranty, they take it to the dealership because it's cheaper, and they also don't want to void the warranty with aftermarket parts/repairs by taking it to an indie shop. Dealership techs are better trained and specialized and often work with newer cars. Dealerships are owned by corporations and indie shops are owned by small private businesses, hence you are treated like a piece of sh*t in the dealership and it has a political workplace environment similar to Aviation.

I have never worked for indie shops but I started in the dealer. I ended up leaving it!

I'm curious, are indie shops flat-rated?

Automotive technicians are always working against a time clock no matter how you are paid or who you work for.

You do not get treated like shit at dealerships, they are so terrified that you will leave they do whatever they can to keep you happy. Dealerships are loosing their best technicians to the aftermarket because of warranty times and flat rate. The aftermarket is mostly hourly.

Automotives, aircraft, almost any trade, you start out making shit money because you don't have much to offer. You are an expense, you drain productivity and cost money. Once you start generating profit/quality work then you get paid more. But it takes years to develop those skills and wage. You cannot have it now, you have to earn it. Or you can get a bullshit delivery job and be stagnant your whole life.

[RLK]

In dealership, we also have warranty time which sucks for us mechanics. Indie shops are cheaper but if a car is under warranty, they take it to the dealership because it's cheaper, and they also don't want to void the warranty with aftermarket parts/repairs by taking it to an indie shop. Dealership techs are better trained and specialized and often work with newer cars. Dealerships are owned by corporations and indie shops are owned by small private businesses, hence you are treated like a piece of sh*t in the dealership and it has a political workplace environment similar to Aviation.

I wasn't going to comment on this, but this statement annoyed me because it is very untrue.

Dealerships are a very poor learning environment. If you are not billing hours, you are not being paid. When someone asks you for help, you get to decide if you are going to help your coworker out and not be paid, or tell him to beat it and continue making money. The shop foreman(s) are usually too busy being bitched at by technicians, management, customers, and dealing with train wrecks to help you. You learn by, trial by fire, by yourself. This does not make very good technicians.

Every manufacturer is different but similar. Apprentices and newly licensed technicians generally do not do too much warranty work. The manufacturer is footing the bill so they call the shots. You have to hit a certain point in the manufacturers training before you get given warranty. The manufacturer feels the technician has done this repair many times over and can beat book time, they are not going to pay for your experience and skill. Now you get to do a 5 hour job and get paid 3. On top of that, the manufacturer will audit the repair a few months later. They will find the smallest thing and charge back the repair. Now you got paid 0 for a 5 hour job. This whole flat rate/warranty system breeds dishonesty and hacks.

Or you can work in the aftermarket, get paid for every hour that you are there. Have the time to actually learn and understand the systems that you are working on. And have help when you need it. But the aftermarket isn't all lollipops and water falls, we have are own problems.

I was paid $7.25 an hour for my first job in the automotive industry. My pay reflected my skill level. Should some kid that knows nothing and cross threads the cap on his toothpaste tube be paid $100 000 year?

[ludivicchua]

I went to dealership (sponsor) for apprenticeship. I was assuming dealer techs are better trained because manufacturers provide their own certified specialized training, they train you on their latest tech, the shops are better equipped and have more resources for productivity (they provide all the special tools/software, TSBs, even technical support via tech line), the work is specialized (repetitive), and they use OEMs.

It's true the dealership is toxic and the pay is shit! If you want to level up your skills and learn something new, you will likely end up making less money than doing your usual gravy work. The system just punishes you for learning slowly or for making mistakes on repairs. Everybody is also on their own.

The tools that you are going to need to buy for yourself in order to be more efficient is ridiculously expensive! People in automotive spend way more money on tools than in Aviation! One thing I like about the dealership is you will need less tools given you don't leave that dealership. Find out what you currently need to buy and just buy only those!

Tools are very expensive, the pay is shit, and the flat-rate/warranty system is just insane!

[ludivicchua]

How do you survive in automotive or in aviation with a pay and expenses like this?

I think it's a problem specific to this country! I mean in Manila, they will pay you 33,000 ~ 34,000 PHP/mo to work as an AME apprentice. Rent in Manila is 10,000 PHP/mo average for 1 room and can go as low as 5,000 PHP/mo. You will not starve to death unlike in here! You are also not required to frequently relocate unlike in this country!

This country sucks because of the cost of living! They cannot afford to produce skilled workers, that is why they are importing skilled TFWs that I have to compete with!

[chowda]

Yes the pizza delivery guy is paid more than the apprentice. But that is all the delivery driver will ever do. As the years go by the apprentice learns new skills and his wage increases. He now make $40-60 an hour and has multiple employers fighting over him

What will the apprentice or AME do in their "career" besides wrench on old airplanes, very likely at night/weekends/holidays, with a large degree of responsibility for around $13 an hour on average more??? Nobody is making $50 an hour unless your a very high time AME crew chief and NOBODY is fighting over AME's with compensation

Do you not see that constantly having to learn more and take on more responsibility for no associated increase in pay equals wage loss?

You sound more like a proud AME than a practical realist.

Right now, as a almost 30 year m1/m2 full 737 family endorsed AME, if was offered $30 a/hr to wrench nights outside on the line or the same to deliver pizzas, I wouldn't hesitate to do the delivery job.

I can park my brain, be warm, dry, and clean, and get pizza for cheap.

Phuk the pride.

[-42]

It’s the usual though. Someone will be willing to do it for less and kiss ass more. Welcome to Canada!

[RLK]

Yes the pizza delivery guy is paid more than the apprentice. But that is all the delivery driver will ever do. As the years go by the apprentice learns new skills and his wage increases. He now make $40-60 an hour and has multiple employers fighting over him

What will the apprentice or AME do in their "career" besides wrench on old airplanes, very likely at night/weekends/holidays, with a large degree of responsibility for around $13 an hour on average more??? Nobody is making $50 an hour unless your a very high time AME crew chief and NOBODY is fighting over AME's with compensation

Do you not see that constantly having to learn more and take on more responsibility for no associated increase in pay equals wage loss?

You sound more like a proud AME than a practical realist.

Right now, as a almost 30 year m1/m2 full 737 family endorsed AME, if was offered $30 a/hr to wrench nights outside on the line or the same to deliver pizzas, I wouldn't hesitate to do the delivery job.

I can park my brain, be warm, dry, and clean, and get pizza for cheap.

Phuk the pride.

You have been an AME for a long time, after that many years I see the appeal to park your brain. Young adults with their whole lives ahead of them, that aspire to be a delivery driver are called dead beats.

@#$! the pride? I am prideful that I'm a mechanic. I can do something that not very many people can do. I make enough money to live a good middle class lifestyle, I get tremendous job satisfaction. I'm content with that. Apparently one of the O&G companies accidentally put out some white collar job ad on indeed. They got over 1200 applicants in under 24 hours. Could you imagine having thousands of people gunning for your job. My employer needs me more than I need him. I hold the power.

[chowda]

Where in Canada are located that you claim to have a "comfortable middle class wage" wrenching on airplanes and, since you skipped this in your reply, what is your shift and daily hours?

Like I said, the chances that you're making mid to high $30's an hour(maybe $40ish if you're into babysitting gen z's and their bs), doing rotating 10 or 12 hour shifts, nights, outside, etc in a big urban center, is highly probable.
All you focussed on was your pride and how you think you can do what most people cant and that you hold power with employers.

Lots of people wrench on equipment and arent pulling standard 12 hour shifts, outdoors, nights, on holidays, with a mediocre compensation package.
The big difference is they are doing it for money, not braggng rights or adoration in a pub.

I remember a filipino dude years back who actually ran away from a picture being taken on a C check. It was in the interior of a 37 where he was doing someting with the aft lav.
He was annoyed because he was worried that his wife or friends might see him working in the lav. He had been telling them that he was an "engine expert" that only worked on engines. Just a pathetic goof. You get paid the same whether yourr engine wrenching or freezing gum out of seats.

That simple point is almost totally lost on the proud bunch.

[RLK]

As I stated before, I'm an automotive technician. I'm considering spending the last half of my career as a AME.

I live in Calgary. My last job: automotive dealership, $38 an hour flat rate. Monday to Friday. I was the night shift team lead. I would work from 5pm to 2-3am. I had to baby sit boomers, x's, millennials, and z. If the computer system crashed, a vehicle fell off the lift, or a crack head was trying to steal something it was my problem. I was paid flat rate, I'm only paid what I bill. There were days that I would deal with multiple disasters and have a crap warranty job and only get paid 3 hours even though I was there for 9, so like $100 for a 9 hour shift. There were other days when all of the stars would align and I would bill like 10 but that didn't happen often. I would average about 7 hour a shift.

My current position: automotive aftermarket shop. $40 an hour straight time, but closer to salary, I get paid 8 hours a day. Monday to Friday 8am to 5pm. Im just a technician here, I have been foreman twice, and team lead once. This is actually one of the better jobs that I have had. The owner is a bit of a ass hole though.

Over the last 20 years I have spent around $80 000 on tools that I will sell for penny's on the dollar. I may randomly have to get a vehicle going out in -30. The shop is heated, but literally every 5 minutes someone is opening a bay door so you get blasted with -30 repeatedly throughout the day. Cars are packed full of snow and ice from the roads. All of that melts and falls into your mouth, eyes, ears, and nose. I can tell you exactly how Alberta roads taste like. Technology moves way faster in automotives than aviation. Every day I spend my lunch break studying so I can keep up with technology.

Is the mechanic world perfect? No, it isn't. But it is a lot better than delivering pizza.


Just for fun, my wife's job: ICU Registered nurse. 12 hour day night rotation. $49 an hour. Takes care of mostly overdosed drug/alcoholics. Sees death very regularly. Has to dig through drug addicts piss soaked bags looking for some sort of ID but finds needles, drugs, weapons. Deals with actual crazy people. Fixing machines is way better than fixing people.

[ludivicchua]

I have accepted what mechanical repair professions are. You will never get rich, but you also will never be unemployed. No one is going to pay you hundreds of thousands every year to fix things, but you can walk into almost any shop in multiple different industries and get a job. Every mechanic that I have met that chases money is just miserable.

I forgot to mention this, but Canadian Aviation have poor job security and stability! That's why nobody wants to be in it! It is a small and unstable industry with too many applicants to compete with for the meager job openings!