Sunwing/Westjet

[Adam Oke]

Somebody coming to Sunwing with 2k on the 737 is likely to be upgraded within 1 year.

In 2022, 38 qualified candidates as per CBA were bypassed with varying service up to 10 years. I would use the term likely very lightly.

[pacman007]

I guess the whole point of these discussions is that,

Will the sunwing pilots who can’t hold left seat on the westket list keep their spot?
SWOOP pilots now didn’t keep their capt seat so the precedent is already set. That’s my opinion.

[rudder]

I guess the whole point of these discussions is that,

Will the sunwing pilots who can’t hold left seat on the westket list keep their spot?
SWOOP pilots now didn’t keep their capt seat so the precedent is already set. That’s my opinion.

The Swoop pilots are not being ‘merged’ with the WJ pilots. They are already on the same seniority list with a single CBA.

Much different scenario than the SW pilots.

Having said that, the PID date matters. And it has already passed. Upgrades and hiring after that date MAY be deemed a product of the merger. It will be up to the arbitration panel.

[TFTMB heavy]

I guess the whole point of these discussions is that,

Will the sunwing pilots who can’t hold left seat on the westket list keep their spot?
SWOOP pilots now didn’t keep their capt seat so the precedent is already set. That’s my opinion.

I doubt that the Swoop situation will affect the merger with Sunwing. There will likely be fences and red circles if required.

The Sunwing business model was killed by the acquisition conditions set but the minister and the new Westjet CA is better than the Sunwing one, there likely won't be much of a representation vote.

The big items will be bases and ratio for the merger of the lists. This, as all mergers, will be a 3 party deal as Westjet will have their say in it for financial reasons.

The more the two unions can settle on the better, arbitration can be disappointing.

[nohojob]

Somebody coming to Sunwing with 2k on the 737 is likely to be upgraded within 1 year.

In 2022, 38 qualified candidates as per CBA were bypassed with varying service up to 10 years. I would use the term likely very lightly.

Yes, you're right, they got bypassed, but called back for the upgrade in Fall 2022.
But of course, there was a good reason for that. We both know why !

[a380super]

Is there anyone here who can prove me that wj contract is better than swg contract???
Still looking desperately..for anything better in the WJ contract compared to ours ( other than the hourly rate)

[cdnavater]

Is there anyone here who can prove me that wj contract is better than swg contract???
Still looking desperately..for anything better in the WJ contract compared to ours ( other than the hourly rate)

380, what difference does it make, better, not better doesn’t really matter at this point. By October it sounds like you will be on the WJ terms and there is only one thing you can do about it, go to another employer.
Your company was sold and your numbers are not enough to swing the vote away from ALPA, you can get a copy of the WJ CBA and figure it out for yourself.
Why don’t you list all the things you like about the Sunwing CBA, I don’t mean anecdotal, I mean actual language of the terms you think are superior and maybe a WJ pilot will be kind enough to address each item.

[nohojob]

By October at the earliest, I doubt it will be that soon despite the plan !

[dontcallmeshirley]

Is there anyone here who can prove me that wj contract is better than swg contract???
Still looking desperately..for anything better in the WJ contract compared to ours ( other than the hourly rate)

Number 1: You will not get bypassed for upgrade just because management wants to benefit a friend of theirs.

[a380super]

Oh thanks....
Number 2 :i just hope we don't have to give up our captain seat for the wj pilots ..
I'm more worried about the downgrade than the upgrade

[Canadaflyer46]

Oh thanks....
Number 2 :i just hope we don't have to give up our captain seat for the wj pilots ..
I'm more worried about the downgrade than the upgrade

If you have 10 or so years seniority then you should be good. Otherwise I imagine it’ll likely be the same as the Swoop merger with red circled pay despite moving to the right seat. Which is still pretty great

[nohojob]

Just speculating (as everybody else).

So some think wj is going to downgrade swg captains and keeping them on their captain salary meanwhile upgrading wj fo instead with up to 10 years of service to replace the downgraded swg captains.

From a financial point of view it doesn't make much sense does it?

A lot cheaper to do as little training as possible.

But again, I am speculating...

[jpilot77]

I’m guessing like in a bunch of other mergers there’ll be fences so you’ll keep your seat. But doing 7-8 turns down south will be gone, I’d guess you'll be doing multiple leg days for 15-16 days a month.

[Canadaflyer46]

Just speculating (as everybody else).

So some think wj is going to downgrade swg captains and keeping them on their captain salary meanwhile upgrading wj fo instead with up to 10 years of service to replace the downgraded swg captains.

From a financial point of view it doesn't make much sense does it?

A lot cheaper to do as little training as possible.

But again, I am speculating...

Training costs don’t come into it. Remember during Covid when they laid off hundreds and retrained them at Encore just to fly a few pairings before coming back to the Boeing? According to the VP of Flt Ops at the time he said that training is free at WestJet.

[nohojob]

I’m guessing like in a bunch of other mergers there’ll be fences so you’ll keep your seat. But doing 7-8 turns down south will be gone, I’d guess you'll be doing multiple leg days for 15-16 days a month.

This scenario seems more realistic to me.

[onspeed]

There are definitely positives in Sunwing's contract that will be worth keeping, it would be foolish not to consider the improvements where they can be made. Sunwing's work is different then WJ so by nature the contract wouldn't be tailored to that type of work.

The merger is a nice windfall for WJ and ALPA, which had become a stagnant airline with ridiculously long upgrade times. Sunwing brings with it a lot of work that it currently doesn't crew and this will allow for more upgrades for senior FO's. Downgrades likely won't happen as most mergers protect seat and base unless there are layoffs. Have a read of the last few mergers in Canada and the US, why would this merger be any different? Why would you want to see your future colleagues be downgraded?

Sunwing is bringing more work then it currently crews, there will be hiring and upgrades as a result. Not too many many mergers have that added bonus.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Sunwing pilots will be welcomed at WestJet. I hope that the animosity that will result from the seniority merger process will fade quick and we'll all be one quick.

[MaxAuto]

Prior to the merger, Sunwing the tour operator not only used its core fleet, dry, and damp leases, it also used Viva Aerobus and Air Canada Rouge for some excess flying. Hopefully west will provide 100 percent of the lift now bringing more work to WJ.

I'm curious to see if WestJet will do the Vacation Express out of the US to sun destinations.

I'm looking forward to joining WJ. It will be a nice change.

[boeingboy]

Prior to the merger, Sunwing the tour operator not only used its core fleet, dry, and damp leases, it also used Viva Aerobus and Air Canada Rouge for some excess flying. Hopefully west will provide 100 percent of the lift now bringing more work to WJ.

Thats the idea. They have a number of 737's on order and the Swoop birds will fill a good chunk of that right now.

I'm curious to see if WestJet will do the Vacation Express out of the US to sun destinations.

We do such a small percentage of that flying - I doubt they will bother with it.

[JBI]

I’m guessing like in a bunch of other mergers there’ll be fences so you’ll keep your seat. But doing 7-8 turns down south will be gone, I’d guess you'll be doing multiple leg days for 15-16 days a month.

This scenario seems more realistic to me.

I think all but the extremely senior SWG pilots will be pleasantly surprised at the WJ schedule. There are a large number of 1 day pairings that are just a turn and back (for example, in YYC, 45% of the pairings are one days). In the last year I have only had two months where I had a full 16 days allotted, but both those months had vacation in them so I actually only worked 11 days. Most months are 12-14 days scheduled.

You will occasionally get a 4 leg day, but they're the exception rather than the norm.

Still lots of Southern layovers plus add larger Canadian and US cities such as JFK, ATL, LAX, LAS, PHX and IAH. Unlike Encore, WJ rarely has layovers in small Northern Cities though there are a fair bit of Victoria, Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax & St. John's layovers.

The great thing about the socialized bidding is that a larger percentage of pilots get good schedules. If you want specific days off but don't care about destinations, you'll probably get the days off, but ya, may have more domestic multi-day, multi-leg pairings. If you don't care about particular days off, but want certain layovers, you can mostly get those. I prefer a bit of a mix and so far have been very happy with the schedule. I usually have a few specific days off in a month that I'd like, but then also bid for a few specific layovers. I tend to get at least one each month.

I bid to avoid red-eyes; I've been scheduled 3 in the last year. I think that's fair and if you only do it every once in a while it's not bad on your sleep schedule.

The thing to keep in mind is that it wasn't the WestJet pilots that made the decision for WestJet to purchase Sunwing, it was Onex. I think most WestJet pilots sympathize with those at Sunwing who are not thrilled about the merger, but at the same time, it's not like WJ pilots had any say in Onex's directions.

[ant_321]

I’m guessing like in a bunch of other mergers there’ll be fences so you’ll keep your seat. But doing 7-8 turns down south will be gone, I’d guess you'll be doing multiple leg days for 15-16 days a month.

This scenario seems more realistic to me.

I think all but the extremely senior SWG pilots will be pleasantly surprised at the WJ schedule. There are a large number of 1 day pairings that are just a turn and back (for example, in YYC, 45% of the pairings are one days). In the last year I have only had two months where I had a full 16 days allotted, but both those months had vacation in them so I actually only worked 11 days. Most months are 12-14 days scheduled.

You will occasionally get a 4 leg day, but they're the exception rather than the norm.

Still lots of Southern layovers plus add larger Canadian and US cities such as JFK, ATL, LAX, LAS, PHX and IAH. Unlike Encore, WJ rarely has layovers in small Northern Cities though there are a fair bit of Victoria, Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax & St. John's layovers.

The great thing about the socialized bidding is that a larger percentage of pilots get good schedules. If you want specific days off but don't care about destinations, you'll probably get the days off, but ya, may have more domestic multi-day, multi-leg pairings. If you don't care about particular days off, but want certain layovers, you can mostly get those. I prefer a bit of a mix and so far have been very happy with the schedule. I usually have a few specific days off in a month that I'd like, but then also bid for a few specific layovers. I tend to get at least one each month.

I bid to avoid red-eyes; I've been scheduled 3 in the last year. I think that's fair and if you only do it every once in a while it's not bad on your sleep schedule.

The thing to keep in mind is that it wasn't the WestJet pilots that made the decision for WestJet to purchase Sunwing, it was Onex. I think most WestJet pilots sympathize with those at Sunwing who are not thrilled about the merger, but at the same time, it's not like WJ pilots had any say in Onex's directions.

I am a relatively junior captain at SWG and I am cautiously optimistic about joining WestJet. I think in the long run it will be a good thing for me. However, I disagree about the schedule only being an issue for super senior SWG pilots. I’ve only worked more than 12 days in a month a handful of times since I’ve been here. Most months are about 10. Working 12-14 days will be a big hit to me. Hopefully all the SWG good credit flying that will be coming can get that number down.

[a380super]

Does WJ feed flight deck crew at least during flights??
Or is it all on ours ($$$)when you go for 3..4 days pairing if we don't want to be on starving mode?
Thks

[Airbrake]

Does WJ feed flight deck crew at least during flights??
Or is it all on ours ($$$)when you go for 3..4 days pairing if we don't want to be on starving mode?
Thks

Paid perdiems, no inflight meals guaranteed unless you’re on the 787.

[a380super]

Ok. Thks.
So when you are on a pairing with minimum rest..its all on you to go shopping for your next day meal???
Ok..interesting, will be the first airline in my career that does not provide food to crew.....
There is always a first time for everything.

[Airbrake]

Ok. Thks.
So when you are on a pairing with minimum rest..its all on you to go shopping for your next day meal???
Ok..interesting, will be the first airline in my career that does not provide food to crew.....
There is always a first time for everything.

Yes you are correct all on you.

What do you consider minimum rest? I have not seen a rest of less than 14 hours in a long as I can remember. I don’t bid for 4-5 day pairings, so it’s possible they exist just I am lucky to not get them.