Thunder Airlines MU2 accident in Wawa

[Col. Panic]

The MU2 can land in very short distances. Flaps 40 approach over the fence at 90 knots, touch down at 80 knots, immediate full reverse, brakes, will yield well under 1000 ft, maybe 700 ft. Landing is never the problem in an MU2, you can always land shorter than you can takeoff. Wawa is 4500' and 100' wide. Walk in the park.

Sunrise at 8, should have been plenty of light at 7:40. Runway lights, PAPI. Runway was snow covered, but most in Canada are this time of year. Light snow, wind west at 10.

What does that leave us?

If I recall correctly, to avoid getting too far onto the back side of the power curve, Mitsubishi increased the approach speeds for flaps 40 a number of years ago, so on paper there is no advantage to landing with flaps 40 vs flaps 20, and a go around from flaps 20 is definitely easier… so many MU2 operators will only land with flaps 20.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Given in the TSB occurrence report, the snow was not removed and the airport operator could not be reached, I’m going to guess there was no runway friction report, certainly not a current one.

The TSB occurrence report your referring to is from another Thunder accident years ago…

CFRI in Wawa? Ha. Maybe the Goose there gives it out. Admittedly I haven’t learned how to speak “goose” yet…

TPC

[North Shore]

Pointless sniping between members (who should know better) removed.

Carry on!

[rookiepilot]

That area is an ice machine this time of year. Wonder what was under the snow. Then add a tailwind…..

[DHC3Rwannafly]

That area is an ice machine this time of year. Wonder what was under the snow. Then add a tailwind…..

SPECI CYXZ 271241Z 31008KT 270V340 3SM -SN SCT013 OVC025 M06/M08 A2951 RMK SF4ST4 SLP012

What tailwind?

[cdnavater]

Given in the TSB occurrence report, the snow was not removed and the airport operator could not be reached, I’m going to guess there was no runway friction report, certainly not a current one.

The TSB occurrence report your referring to is from another Thunder accident years ago…

CFRI in Wawa? Ha. Maybe the Goose there gives it out. Admittedly I haven’t learned how to speak “goose” yet…

TPC

Yep, I missed the part where it was from a different accident, makes sense though TSB takes years to report. I had originally typed CADORS and then edited my post, oops. Very little information out there about this accident so far.

[rookiepilot]

That area is an ice machine this time of year. Wonder what was under the snow. Then add a tailwind…..

SPECI CYXZ 271241Z 31008KT 270V340 3SM -SN SCT013 OVC025 M06/M08 A2951 RMK SF4ST4 SLP012

What tailwind?

Someone earlier had quoted a westerly wind. Ok then............

[Flapsdownletsgo]

Multiple news outlets are reporting an MU2 in Wawa was destroyed upon landing at 0740local time. No injuries reported, and TSB is enroute. Runway remains closed.

This marks the 4th incident/accident in just over 2 years.

On Aug 6 2021 a King Air landing YMO overran the runway

On Apr 11 2022 a king air landing in YTS suffered a gear collapse

On Aug 10 2023 a King Air landing in YMO departed the side of the runway

https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/no-i ... -1.6662770

Hey JD, how about you wait until all the details are assessed by the TSB before taking any opportunity at trashing your ex-employer on this forum.
My friend walked away from this accident. I do not know the circumstances, but implying some sort of failure by quoting other incidents/accidents is pretty trashy.

[digits_]

Multiple news outlets are reporting an MU2 in Wawa was destroyed upon landing at 0740local time. No injuries reported, and TSB is enroute. Runway remains closed.

This marks the 4th incident/accident in just over 2 years.

On Aug 6 2021 a King Air landing YMO overran the runway

On Apr 11 2022 a king air landing in YTS suffered a gear collapse

On Aug 10 2023 a King Air landing in YMO departed the side of the runway

https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/no-i ... -1.6662770

Hey JD, how about you wait until all the details are assessed by the TSB before taking any opportunity at trashing your ex-employer on this forum.
My friend walked away from this accident. I do not know the circumstances, but implying some sort of failure by quoting other incidents/accidents is pretty trashy.

His post is quite factual. You can interpret it how you want. Is his information incorrect?

[Tbayer2021]

Multiple news outlets are reporting an MU2 in Wawa was destroyed upon landing at 0740local time. No injuries reported, and TSB is enroute. Runway remains closed.

This marks the 4th incident/accident in just over 2 years.

On Aug 6 2021 a King Air landing YMO overran the runway

On Apr 11 2022 a king air landing in YTS suffered a gear collapse

On Aug 10 2023 a King Air landing in YMO departed the side of the runway

https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/no-i ... -1.6662770

Hey JD, how about you wait until all the details are assessed by the TSB before taking any opportunity at trashing your ex-employer on this forum.
My friend walked away from this accident. I do not know the circumstances, but implying some sort of failure by quoting other incidents/accidents is pretty trashy.

His post is quite factual. You can interpret it how you want. Is his information incorrect?

An ex employee posting factual information without the slightest bit of conjecture gets someone all worked up.............I wonder why.

[TC.Enforcement]

Multiple news outlets are reporting an MU2 in Wawa was destroyed upon landing at 0740local time. No injuries reported, and TSB is enroute. Runway remains closed.

This marks the 4th incident/accident in just over 2 years.

On Aug 6 2021 a King Air landing YMO overran the runway

On Apr 11 2022 a king air landing in YTS suffered a gear collapse

On Aug 10 2023 a King Air landing in YMO departed the side of the runway

https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/no-i ... -1.6662770

Hey JD, how about you wait until all the details are assessed by the TSB before taking any opportunity at trashing your ex-employer on this forum.
My friend walked away from this accident. I do not know the circumstances, but implying some sort of failure by quoting other incidents/accidents is pretty trashy.

Hey GC. The above posters said it best. I was factual with my information, and haven’t pointed any fingers. I’ll leave it at that.

[karmutzen]

Nobody post a picture yet? No celphones in Wawa?

I'll throw a pilot opinion out there: if the wind is less than 15 knots and the runway is long (like it was here), I just land in whatever direction is the most convenient to a straight in, or has the best approach if the weather is bad. Nitpicking ~40 degrees of ~8 knot wind in an MU2 approaching at 100 is irrelevant. If it comes up in the TSB report 3 years from now you'll know they were out of ideas.

I kinda like the snivelling backstabbing sniping from some of our members here - adds color to the pious regulatory sternness of the aviation world.

[oldncold]

This negativity and sniping here reminds be of grade school. No logic or conclusive proof.but everyone is right . With the christmas season upon us lets try this

1Refrain from slagging
2 practise some humility
3 dont post with too many bevys


Best of the holidays travel safe in 2024

[youhavecontrol]

As usual this time of year, there have been some really bad runway conditions lately. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the main factor. I've had a tough time choosing good alternate airports because of delayed runway clearing in many places in Ontario this season. Some airports will say "snow removal in progress," but that's no guarantee it will be suitable when you get there. Just earlier this week, I waited for a Notam stating the runway clearing was complete, but when we got there an hour later, there were already 4" drifts across the runway. I'm glad my aircraft can handle deeper stuff, but I can't imagine the MU2 is easy to handle in deeper snow drifts, with the relatively small wheels. ...especially hitting that crap in the dark.
With the strong winds in the early winter, the runways drift over easily and because of the freeze/thaw, there's a lot of ice getting polished by the blowing snow. If the airport doesn't have prompt snow removal (many absolutely don't), the runway conditions take a nose-dive and seem to stay that way until they finally put down sand, if their budget has a line for that.

[toelessjoe]

Note to all you new captn out there: . Municipal airport s are not like rez airports. They dont get plowed on weekend s or holidays:wawa The runway likely had frezing rain then ice pellets and snow over top. You must contact the airport mgr.at any municipal. Before accepting a trip especially on weekend s and before a noon arrival on a monday after a winter snow ice event . I remember cancelling many trips in vfr weather after a snowstorm because. Nobody around to verify runway. Got shit from ops but no bent aluminium

What he said.

[pelmet]

From TSB....

C-GYUA, a Mitsubishi Aircraft Intl. Inc. MU-2B-60 operated by Thunder Airlines Limited, was
conducting flight THU890 from Thunder Bay International Airport (CYQT), ON to Wawa Aerodrome
(CYXZ), ON, with 2 crew and one medic on board. During landing on Runway 03, which was snow
covered, the aircraft departed the right side of runway and slid down into the drainage area beside
the runway. The aircraft was substantially damaged. There were no reported injuries.

[rookiepilot]

Appears report is out. Deep snow on runway / miscommunication.

https://northernontario.ctvnews.ca/misc ... -1.6798370

[Donald]

Not a very experienced crew on aircraft type, particularly for a training captain.

That said, if you're expecting a plowed runway, it's pretty difficult to tell on approach during low light, the difference between compact snow and unplowed. I've been there myself, and was lucky to only be embarrassed.

[digits_]

Of all the ways to crash an MU2 this is likely the most survivable. But what a shame. On the other hand I'm surprised it doesn't happen more frequently. We've had some close calls as well, and at some point you're completely depending on the report of a non-pilot airport employee, who may or may not be motivated to actually go look and give you accurate information. Very sucky situation to be in. And as mentioned above, you can't see the difference between 2ft of snow or 2 inch of snow from the air.

[digits_]

Note to all you new captn out there: . Municipal airport s are not like rez airports. They dont get plowed on weekend s or holidays:wawa The runway likely had frezing rain then ice pellets and snow over top. You must contact the airport mgr.at any municipal. Before accepting a trip especially on weekend s and before a noon arrival on a monday after a winter snow ice event . I remember cancelling many trips in vfr weather after a snowstorm because. Nobody around to verify runway. Got shit from ops but no bent aluminium

What he said.

Worth it to emphasize it once more...

[goingnowherefast]

If only there was a standardized way of communicating runway surface conditions.

Is it really that difficult for aerodrome operators to update an RSC NOTAM more frequently than once per day? Sure I'm not expecting 24/7 updates. During operating hours, please publish any relevant updates. 8" of snow is relevant.

[digits_]

During operating hours, please publish any relevant updates. 8" of snow is relevant.

That wouldn't have helped in this case though. They were airborne before the operating hours begun.