Illegal wages

[CanadaAir]

For junior pilots, your employer must pay you minimum wage.
$33,000 a year is below minimum.

Hours worked include all hours at work, including flight planning, loading, deadheading and time between legs.
Even if you don't do anything, the employer must pay 3 hours once you enter the building.
This includes for flight instructors



"To keep pace with inflation, the federal minimum wage will increase from $15.55 to $16.65 per hour on April 1, 2023. Based on the Consumer Price Index, which rose 6.8% in 2022, the increase will help make life more affordable for the approximately 26,000 Canadian workers who earn less than the current rate.

Federally regulated private-sector employers must adjust their payroll information with the new rate to ensure workers and interns are paid correctly as of April 1. Where the provincial or territorial minimum wage rate is higher than the federal minimum wage, employers must apply the higher rate.


The federal minimum wage applies to the federally regulated private sectors, including banks, postal and courier services, and interprovincial air, rail, road, and marine transportation.
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... ril-1.html


Complaints
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/ ... laint.html

[CanadaAir]

Accepting wages below minimum will looked down on by union pilots
If your goal is to fly for an airline

[digits_]

Accepting wages below minimum will looked down on by union pilots
If your goal is to fly for an airline

Oh please.

I'm sure every pilot working at a union job turned down every crappy job offer or every unsafe job.

The new pilot struggling to find his first pilot job is not the one that can change the system. The experienced ones are.

Your first post in this topic was great. The second one is just silly.

[alkaseltzer]

For junior pilots, your employer must pay you minimum wage.
$33,000 a year is below minimum.

Hours worked include all hours at work, including flight planning, loading, deadheading and time between legs.
Even if you don't do anything, the employer must pay 3 hours once you enter the building.
This includes for flight instructors



"To keep pace with inflation, the federal minimum wage will increase from $15.55 to $16.65 per hour on April 1, 2023. Based on the Consumer Price Index, which rose 6.8% in 2022, the increase will help make life more affordable for the approximately 26,000 Canadian workers who earn less than the current rate.

Federally regulated private-sector employers must adjust their payroll information with the new rate to ensure workers and interns are paid correctly as of April 1. Where the provincial or territorial minimum wage rate is higher than the federal minimum wage, employers must apply the higher rate.


The federal minimum wage applies to the federally regulated private sectors, including banks, postal and courier services, and interprovincial air, rail, road, and marine transportation.
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... ril-1.html


Complaints
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/ ... laint.html

Dude I really think you need help. Your mental state seems more volatile with each post.

You're not a messiah.

Maybe you just need to get laid.

[CanadaAir]

Multiple companies posting with pay scales starting at less than minimum.

Poster thinks sharing a link on the minimum wage is volatile?

Are certain posters annoyed at paying less than minimum wage is illegal?

[CanadaAir]

Accepting wages below minimum will looked down on by union pilots
If your goal is to fly for an airline

Oh please.

I'm sure every pilot working at a union job turned down every crappy job offer or every unsafe job.

A difference between when minimum wages were 40% lower.

Pilots accepting wages below minimum show they don't have ability to follow legal minimums.
If they can't stand for their own pay, they won't stand for other safety minimums.

What kind of pilots do you want?

[digits_]

Accepting wages below minimum will looked down on by union pilots
If your goal is to fly for an airline

Oh please.

I'm sure every pilot working at a union job turned down every crappy job offer or every unsafe job.

A difference between when minimum wages were 40% lower.

Pilots accepting wages below minimum show they don't have ability to follow legal minimums.
If they can't stand for their own pay, they won't stand for other safety minimums.

What kind of pilots do you want?

Your logic is flawed.

The reality is that pilots turning down these jobs will likely not be pilots. Low time pilot jobs are still rare.

If you want to help, report these companies to the authorities yourself.

[Stable_Approach]

Accepting wages below minimum will looked down on by union pilots
If your goal is to fly for an airline

Oh please.

I'm sure every pilot working at a union job turned down every crappy job offer or every unsafe job.

A difference between when minimum wages were 40% lower.

Pilots accepting wages below minimum show they don't have ability to follow legal minimums.
If they can't stand for their own pay, they won't stand for other safety minimums.

What kind of pilots do you want?

Go talk to any airline captain on what their recommendation is. The ones that don’t try to talk you out of aviation altogether will tell you to get any job and build the hours as quickly as possible. You can virtue signal all you want but people that follow your advice will end up watching from the sidelines. In case you were asleep last little while, airlines are hiring like crazy and any and every pilot is out there clamouring for hours not high pay on a job they will leave within 12-18 months.

Second, looking at a base salary and dividing it by 40 hour work week is also flawed and you’re applying that logic to every organization to see who is underpaying. That’s not how it works in this industry if you had any work experience you’d know that by now.

[flyingcanuck]

Oh please.

I'm sure every pilot working at a union job turned down every crappy job offer or every unsafe job.

A difference between when minimum wages were 40% lower.

Pilots accepting wages below minimum show they don't have ability to follow legal minimums.
If they can't stand for their own pay, they won't stand for other safety minimums.

What kind of pilots do you want?

Second, looking at a base salary and dividing it by 40 hour work week is also flawed and you’re applying that logic to every organization to see who is underpaying. That’s not how it works in this industry if you had any work experience you’d know that by now.

Technically speaking, the government should have better laws that stop this bullshit. If a flight instructor is at work for 12 hours but does 3 hrs of flying, there should be more protection to get more pay than 3 hours of pay. As a random example, I made up, because yes, they are making less than min wage if you divide work done/time at your workplace.

[Stable_Approach]

Is the instructor an employee or independent contractor? If contractor, then they only earn when they are providing instruction and not for time on property. Don't like it tell the school you want to be categorized as employee but I'm willing to bet unless you have some leverage in the negotiation, you probably wouldn't be there much longer after that.

[CanadaAir]

Go talk to any airline captain on what their recommendation is. The ones that don’t try to talk you out of aviation altogether will tell you to get any job and build the hours as quickly as possible.

"get any job"

You in favour of pilots working below minimum wage?
Then you also ok with working for free?

Why are you telling junior pilots to go below minimum wage?

Second, looking at a base salary and dividing it by 40 hour work week is also flawed and you’re applying that logic to every organization to see who is underpaying. That’s not how it works in this industry if you had any work experience you’d know that by now.

The labour law is there.
The time you walk into work until you leave, you must be paid minimum wage per hour.
If the pilot is on a flat pay, the flat pay must match the hourly minimum rate.

Pilots accepting less are working for a company which is breaking the labour law.
Talk to the boss, they might not know they are breaking the law.

[CanadaAir]

Is the instructor an employee or independent contractor?

Most instructors are employees.

[CanadaAir]

If you want to help, report these companies to the authorities yourself.

All pilots can do this
ALPA could take steps to protect junior pilots outside the union.

[digits_]

If you want to help, report these companies to the authorities yourself.

All pilots can do this
ALPA could take steps to protect junior pilots outside the union.

Or to paraphrase: you're not going to do anything, except blame new pilots for those jobs paying less than minimum wages? Did I get that right?

[CanadaAir]

If you want to help, report these companies to the authorities yourself.

All pilots can do this
ALPA could take steps to protect junior pilots outside the union.

Or to paraphrase: you're not going to do anything, except blame new pilots for those jobs paying less than minimum wages? Did I get that right?

No

[LegoMan]

If you want to help, report these companies to the authorities yourself.

All pilots can do this
ALPA could take steps to protect junior pilots outside the union.

Or to paraphrase: you're not going to do anything, except blame new pilots for those jobs paying less than minimum wages? Did I get that right?

Judging by his answers it seems he's had a few too many hard landings recently.

[goldeneagle]

The labour law is there.
The time you walk into work until you leave, you must be paid minimum wage per hour.

If you are such an expert on labour law, why are you whining on an anonymous online forum, why not present your case to the courts ?

As for that instructor with 3 bookings thru the day, most instructors are hired as 'part time'. If they have 3 bookings thru the day and are not assigned other tasks / duties betweeen those bookings, then they are not 'working' during that time, free to leave and go do other things.

As for expecting pilots to refuse lower paying jobs in hopes the wages will go up, been there, done that. I walked away from a regional offer in 1990 because the wage was such I couldn't make ends meet on that amount. As the person there said, no problem, we have hundreds of resume in the pile that will take it. I never went back to flying, was the best decision I ever made in terms of financial security, but I had another profession to fall back on as well. My foolish expectation at the time was that most would walk away and in a couple years wages would go up then I could go back flying. Never happened.

[CaptDukeNukem]

If you want to help, report these companies to the authorities yourself.

All pilots can do this
ALPA could take steps to protect junior pilots outside the union.

No union in the world helps anyone who doesn’t pay into membership. And even when I payed into membership, the return on my investment into said union was pitiful.

That being said; they can help dramatically. But they won’t if you aren’t one of them.

[Bede]

Is the instructor an employee or independent contractor? If contractor, then they only earn when they are providing instruction and not for time on property. Don't like it tell the school you want to be categorized as employee but I'm willing to bet unless you have some leverage in the negotiation, you probably wouldn't be there much longer after that.

Pretty simple. The employer may try to call you an independent contractor, but the law is clear on the criteria that need to be present to be an independent contractor. Flight instructors meet none of those criteria. https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... loyee.html

[Stable_Approach]

[quote=Stable_Approach post_id=<a href="tel:1288888">1288888</a> time=<a href="tel:1701630458">1701630458</a> user_id=99922]
Is the instructor an employee or independent contractor? If contractor, then they only earn when they are providing instruction and not for time on property. Don't like it tell the school you want to be categorized as employee but I'm willing to bet unless you have some leverage in the negotiation, you probably wouldn't be there much longer after that.

Pretty simple. The employer may try to call you an independent contractor, but the law is clear on the criteria that need to be present to be an independent contractor. Flight instructors meet none of those criteria. https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... loyee.html
[/quote]

Instructors can meet several of the criteria:

1. They bring their own tools to the job
2. They can set their own schedule and hours (some flight schools only allow this for class III or higher)
3. They are able to work for more than one payer. The company I work at more than 80% of the pilots are instructors on the side, a few even at more than 1 location.

I can tell you that lines are crossed all the time with this. I used to consult for a company that told me what days they needed me in their office and paid me a monthly fixed salary. By those definitions I could be an employee however it was clarified in the contract that I was acting as a vendor and that was legally binding.

[goldeneagle]

1. They bring their own tools to the job

What tools would an instructor bring ? They are forbidden legally from bringing their own airplane, the aircraft must be school planes. The school will provide the premises. Doubtful any instructors bring a simulator.

So I'm curious, just what tools would the instructor be brining with them ?

[Stable_Approach]

Instructors bring their own course materials (slides/presentations).
They are generally free to instruct their methods vs a standardized method you would see at a carrier.

Instructor is expected to bring and maintain appropriate licenses and ratings at their own cost including medical.

Some instructors do teach on customer aircraft as well.

Most instructors are carrying their own iPads, kneeboards, headsets

Again how the relationship between instructor and school is defined on paper matters most and will determine status of instructor.

In the U.S. most instructors including those at large schools such as ATP are contractors.

[digits_]

I can tell you that lines are crossed all the time with this. I used to consult for a company that told me what days they needed me in their office and paid me a monthly fixed salary. By those definitions I could be an employee however it was clarified in the contract that I was acting as a vendor and that was legally binding.

Did you ever get audited? A contract like that means very little if you're otherwise treated like an employee.

[Bede]

Again how the relationship between instructor and school is defined on paper matters most and will determine status of instructor.

That's incorrect. What matters is the facts of the case, not what the employer dictates.

Having control over your own work, which is foundational to a contract for services, is literally contrary to the CARS.

[Stable_Approach]

Again you are looking at one piece of many that would have to be reviewed to determine what type of relationship there is. A big one that is generally asked is who controls the schedule. If you have to work 6 days a week because flight school tells you to, you are most likely an employee. If you can come and go as you please and can work for multiple outfits a contractor can be argued.