New hire bids

[cdnavater]

In the same manner as your message, who gives a @#$!. They pay almost min wage to fly jets around the US and Canada. They take advantage of pilots as much as they can. There is no loyalty to these companies, as there is no respect to us either.

You know, you’re right, come on over buddy but like Nick said, no guarantee you’ll get the jet or even log your 200 hours in the time fram you’re looking at.
This is a sure way for a company to start looking at bonds, I’m honestly surprised they haven’t yet.
Anyhow, companies that don’t have a bond often supplement the training costs with lower pay, pretty hard to justify raising it when a high percentage leave early. Probably why they are hiring non marketable pilots with 750 hours, they have no where to go

oohh the big bad bond. Until a person able to go to the US goes and gets one of those signing bonuses and laughs off a bond.

Man people on here love their ludicrous empty threats.

I did not intend it as an empty threat, not even as a threat.
I would sure hate it if it came to bonds because of this, I realize many are leaving and really who knows how many had only intended a short stay. How many were hoping for the Emb and didn’t get it, Porter will skip them in favour of less training for a type rated pilot.
Bottom line, AC has already showed how much they are willing to pay for regional lift, who knows if they will revisit the pay after they settle things over there. AC pays for the wages and the training so it will be up to them if they want to institute a bond at Jazz or up the pay, time will tell but honestly I never took a job with the intention of simply a place to hangout until I get the job I really want, it shows a lack of integrity which as mentioned we all know management is severely lacking.
I’m fairly certain if said poster was honest during the interview, they would not be hired.

[Rowdy]

It changes by the month but there is more than usual reserve covered in yyz. It’s a 2 hour call out window to the gate and it may take 6-8 months just to hold some flying. I can’t comment on how much flying to going to reserve. But even with a full block you’ll be flying 400-700 hours a year. Also no guarantee you’ll get the jet. If you go this route remember that jazz hasn’t respected its contract and there should no hard feelings when you jump ship. 2 week notice is optional.

Just a heads up, the contract states that the callout is Two(2) hours to check in from a reserve callout. With a minimum of 1hr from check in to departure time.

Cheers!

[rudder]

You know, you’re right, come on over buddy but like Nick said, no guarantee you’ll get the jet or even log your 200 hours in the time fram you’re looking at.
This is a sure way for a company to start looking at bonds, I’m honestly surprised they haven’t yet.
Anyhow, companies that don’t have a bond often supplement the training costs with lower pay, pretty hard to justify raising it when a high percentage leave early. Probably why they are hiring non marketable pilots with 750 hours, they have no where to go

oohh the big bad bond. Until a person able to go to the US goes and gets one of those signing bonuses and laughs off a bond.

Man people on here love their ludicrous empty threats.

I did not intend it as an empty threat, not even as a threat.
I would sure hate it if it came to bonds because of this, I realize many are leaving and really who knows how many had only intended a short stay. How many were hoping for the Emb and didn’t get it, Porter will skip them in favour of less training for a type rated pilot.
Bottom line, AC has already showed how much they are willing to pay for regional lift, who knows if they will revisit the pay after they settle things over there. AC pays for the wages and the training so it will be up to them if they want to institute a bond at Jazz or up the pay, time will tell but honestly I never took a job with the intention of simply a place to hangout until I get the job I really want, it shows a lack of integrity which as mentioned we all know management is severely lacking.
I’m fairly certain if said poster was honest during the interview, they would not be hired.

A bond is a function of the CBA.

Neither the JAZ MEC nor the Jazz pilots would support a bond.

The only option is to improve the WAWCON. That is what AC was told before. It has not changed.

Who pays for training is a function of the CPA.

[cdnavater]

oohh the big bad bond. Until a person able to go to the US goes and gets one of those signing bonuses and laughs off a bond.

Man people on here love their ludicrous empty threats.

I did not intend it as an empty threat, not even as a threat.
I would sure hate it if it came to bonds because of this, I realize many are leaving and really who knows how many had only intended a short stay. How many were hoping for the Emb and didn’t get it, Porter will skip them in favour of less training for a type rated pilot.
Bottom line, AC has already showed how much they are willing to pay for regional lift, who knows if they will revisit the pay after they settle things over there. AC pays for the wages and the training so it will be up to them if they want to institute a bond at Jazz or up the pay, time will tell but honestly I never took a job with the intention of simply a place to hangout until I get the job I really want, it shows a lack of integrity which as mentioned we all know management is severely lacking.
I’m fairly certain if said poster was honest during the interview, they would not be hired.

A bond is a function of the CBA.

Neither the JAZ MEC nor the Jazz pilots would support a bond.

The only option is to improve the WAWCON. That is what AC was told before. It has not changed.

Who pays for training is a function of the CPA.

I suppose I didn’t consider that, I wonder if it has ever been brought up at the table?
Of course I would not support it either!

[canadian_aviator_4]

The proper way is to look out for yourself and not the corporate hacks... Who gives a **** about the training expense. It's wise to take the job now and get a # in case other plans don't work out. Maybe you lack some of that planning mentality at the expense of corporate loyalty.

BS. I will be sending this thread to the DFO to keep an eye out for applications from rotary pilots with this experience. Pretty sure she won’t be impressed.

Bahaha, the almighty DFO of Jazz

Is it JB?

[Turboprops]

but honestly I never took a job with the intention of simply a place to hangout until I get the job I really want, it shows a lack of integrity which as mentioned we all know management is severely lacking.
I’m fairly certain if said poster was honest during the interview, they would not be hired.

So everyone that came for the flow lacked integrity? Every young pilot starting out in the industry working as instructors, flying caravan navajo PC12 metro B1900 that wants to make it to AC/WJ all lacked integrity because they intend to leave in the future?

Every other job you worked before Jazz you had the intention to be a lifer? I don’t know what jobs you worked back in the day, but between ramp/instruct/703 and whatever entry level job, you honestly all thought you’d be there for life?

[CaptDukeNukem]

You know, you’re right, come on over buddy but like Nick said, no guarantee you’ll get the jet or even log your 200 hours in the time fram you’re looking at.
This is a sure way for a company to start looking at bonds, I’m honestly surprised they haven’t yet.
Anyhow, companies that don’t have a bond often supplement the training costs with lower pay, pretty hard to justify raising it when a high percentage leave early. Probably why they are hiring non marketable pilots with 750 hours, they have no where to go

oohh the big bad bond. Until a person able to go to the US goes and gets one of those signing bonuses and laughs off a bond.

Man people on here love their ludicrous empty threats.

I did not intend it as an empty threat, not even as a threat.
I would sure hate it if it came to bonds because of this, I realize many are leaving and really who knows how many had only intended a short stay. How many were hoping for the Emb and didn’t get it, Porter will skip them in favour of less training for a type rated pilot.
Bottom line, AC has already showed how much they are willing to pay for regional lift, who knows if they will revisit the pay after they settle things over there. AC pays for the wages and the training so it will be up to them if they want to institute a bond at Jazz or up the pay, time will tell but honestly I never took a job with the intention of simply a place to hangout until I get the job I really want, it shows a lack of integrity which as mentioned we all know management is severely lacking.
I’m fairly certain if said poster was honest during the interview, they would not be hired.

A training bond at jazz would be the end of Jazz.

[Inverted2]

For those who don’t know, Air Canada pays for the training at Jazz so I have no problem with guys doing this.

Remember it is Air Canada who is 100% to blame for the mess we have at Jazz.

Not coming close to the 60% flow.

Violating the CPA most recently with PAL Airlines.

Meddling in the recent negotiations which got us a significantly lower raise than Jazz/ALPA agreed to.

So hate Jazz all you want but it’s AC who has been doing a great job at keeping this place where it is for decades.

[Inverted2]

PS. The amount of AMEs leaving Jazz is also staggering at the moment. Pilot shortage might not matter if there’s no airworthy airplanes to fly.

[rudder]

For those who don’t know, Air Canada pays for the training at Jazz so I have no problem with guys doing this.

Remember it is Air Canada who is 100% to blame for the mess we have at Jazz.

Not coming close to the 60% flow.

Violating the CPA most recently with PAL Airlines.

Meddling in the recent negotiations which got us a significantly lower raise than Jazz/ALPA agreed to.

So hate Jazz all you want but it’s AC who has been doing a great job at keeping this place where it is for decades.

There is a book to be written that started in September 1986. No - this isn’t about a pilot seniority merger.

It is nearly 4 decades of partially owned, fully owned, non owned, and everything that goes along with it (ONEX/CCAA/IPO’s).

There are individuals who have made themselves quite financially comfortable as the corporate machinations unfolded. And then there are the front line employees that have lived through strikes, recession, merger, layoffs, bankruptcy, financial crisis, SARS, COVID, expansion, contraction, and uncertainty.

People make decisions based on facts, what they see happening right in front of them. And like it or not - very few people are currently joining Jazz as a career. It will simply be a stop along the way. And even many that came for a career have realized that lifestyle, job security, progression, earnings and retirement income are better found elsewhere.

Somewhere there is a plan. Maybe it exists in YHZ. Maybe it exists in YUL. Would be nice for the remaining Jazz employees to know what that plan is. Or perhaps not telling anybody is the plan.

[cdnavater]

but honestly I never took a job with the intention of simply a place to hangout until I get the job I really want, it shows a lack of integrity which as mentioned we all know management is severely lacking.
I’m fairly certain if said poster was honest during the interview, they would not be hired.

So everyone that came for the flow lacked integrity? Every young pilot starting out in the industry working as instructors, flying caravan navajo PC12 metro B1900 that wants to make it to AC/WJ all lacked integrity because they intend to leave in the future?

Every other job you worked before Jazz you had the intention to be a lifer? I don’t know what jobs you worked back in the day, but between ramp/instruct/703 and whatever entry level job, you honestly all thought you’d be there for life?

Context man, the guy literally said he needs 200 hours and his American wife and he are moving to the US in 8 months but it’s all good, the companies created a situation where there is no reason to stick around.

[QKZXKV]

but honestly I never took a job with the intention of simply a place to hangout until I get the job I really want, it shows a lack of integrity which as mentioned we all know management is severely lacking.
I’m fairly certain if said poster was honest during the interview, they would not be hired.

So everyone that came for the flow lacked integrity? Every young pilot starting out in the industry working as instructors, flying caravan navajo PC12 metro B1900 that wants to make it to AC/WJ all lacked integrity because they intend to leave in the future?

Every other job you worked before Jazz you had the intention to be a lifer? I don’t know what jobs you worked back in the day, but between ramp/instruct/703 and whatever entry level job, you honestly all thought you’d be there for life?

Context man, the guy literally said he needs 200 hours and his American wife and he are moving to the US in 8 months but it’s all good, the companies created a situation where there is no reason to stick around.

And if that all falls through or gets delayed because of immigration you're more worried about management's hurt feelings than the poster's right to work?

LOL I find the notion of worrying about a sunk training cost amusing

[QKZXKV]

BS. I will be sending this thread to the DFO to keep an eye out for applications from rotary pilots with this experience. Pretty sure she won’t be impressed.

Bahaha, the almighty DFO of Jazz

Is it JB?

I think so, that's why I found this comment funny

[cdnavater]

So everyone that came for the flow lacked integrity? Every young pilot starting out in the industry working as instructors, flying caravan navajo PC12 metro B1900 that wants to make it to AC/WJ all lacked integrity because they intend to leave in the future?

Every other job you worked before Jazz you had the intention to be a lifer? I don’t know what jobs you worked back in the day, but between ramp/instruct/703 and whatever entry level job, you honestly all thought you’d be there for life?

Context man, the guy literally said he needs 200 hours and his American wife and he are moving to the US in 8 months but it’s all good, the companies created a situation where there is no reason to stick around.

And if that all falls through or gets delayed because of immigration you're more worried about management's hurt feelings than the poster's right to work?

LOL I find the notion of worrying about a sunk training cost amusing

Nah man, I’m old school and I was management in a previous life, at one company we had a period of higher turn over and my employer wanted to implement a bond. I told him I wouldn’t support that, I was a handshake and your word kind of guy, yes I was burnt a couple times but in the end most pilots stuck around a least a year which was all we asked for. It probably helped that most were building multi-pic and we paid half decent for the time, more than most.
I’m just having a hard time adjusting to the new world but everyone is right, AC created the problem and an deal with the consequences.

[yowflyer23]

Are there any first year FO’s on here who’d be willing to share how much you pay to benefits/union deductions on each paycheque? Just trying to set some budget expectations. Feel free to PM me!

[Hysteria]

Alright, I understand some ground schools at Big Red in the last few months included a fair amount of Jazz. Anyone know how many years these individuals were on property at Jazz?

[CanadianGlobetrotter]

Are there any first year FO’s on here who’d be willing to share how much you pay to benefits/union deductions on each paycheque? Just trying to set some budget expectations. Feel free to PM me!

Take home pay during training for a new FO seems to be about $1,800 per paycheque, with an additional $1,000/month coming from training allotments and per diems.

[QKZXKV]

Alright, I understand some ground schools at Big Red in the last few months included a fair amount of Jazz. Anyone know how many years these individuals were on property at Jazz?

I know a number at the 3-4 yr window.

[QKZXKV]

Context man, the guy literally said he needs 200 hours and his American wife and he are moving to the US in 8 months but it’s all good, the companies created a situation where there is no reason to stick around.

And if that all falls through or gets delayed because of immigration you're more worried about management's hurt feelings than the poster's right to work?

LOL I find the notion of worrying about a sunk training cost amusing

Nah man, I’m old school and I was management in a previous life, at one company we had a period of higher turn over and my employer wanted to implement a bond. I told him I wouldn’t support that, I was a handshake and your word kind of guy, yes I was burnt a couple times but in the end most pilots stuck around a least a year which was all we asked for. It probably helped that most were building multi-pic and we paid half decent for the time, more than most.
I’m just having a hard time adjusting to the new world but everyone is right, AC created the problem and an deal with the consequences.

ok fair enough

[Inverted2]

They know how to fix Jazz. Whether they want to or not is another story.

Yes training bonds would only drive away more applicants. The “Beatings will continue until morale improves” method isn’t working.

[Me262]

Back on topic regarding new hire bids. Do all new hires that come from other companies that are part of ALPA get to pick first over everyone else who was hired and they were not part of ALPA at their previous employer? How does the drawing from the hat works exactly? And is there any way to level the plainfield if the new hire was not part of ALPA before joining Jazz?

[canadian_aviator_4]

They know how to fix Jazz. Whether they want to or not is another story.

Yes training bonds would only drive away more applicants. The “Beatings will continue until morale improves” method isn’t working.

[QKZXKV]

Back on topic regarding new hire bids. Do all new hires that come from other companies that are part of ALPA get to pick first over everyone else who was hired and they were not part of ALPA at their previous employer? How does the drawing from the hat works exactly? And is there any way to level the plainfield if the new hire was not part of ALPA before joining Jazz?

They get to "bid" in order of ALPA join date. If it's only one in the class, they get first pick, if it's more than one it's in the order of their dates. The rest of the class has their names thrown in a hat. After a person selects, they draw the next name out of the hat. That will then be your order of seniority within your class.

To answer the level playing field question: no ALPA members always go ahead of non-ALPA.

[Me262]

Back on topic regarding new hire bids. Do all new hires that come from other companies that are part of ALPA get to pick first over everyone else who was hired and they were not part of ALPA at their previous employer? How does the drawing from the hat works exactly? And is there any way to level the plainfield if the new hire was not part of ALPA before joining Jazz?

They get to draw in order of ALPA join date. If it's only one in the class, they get first pick, if it's more than one it's in the order of their dates.

And everyone else draws after them? And that's everyone who joined jazz from a company who were part of ALPA correct?

[QKZXKV]

Back on topic regarding new hire bids. Do all new hires that come from other companies that are part of ALPA get to pick first over everyone else who was hired and they were not part of ALPA at their previous employer? How does the drawing from the hat works exactly? And is there any way to level the plainfield if the new hire was not part of ALPA before joining Jazz?

They get to draw in order of ALPA join date. If it's only one in the class, they get first pick, if it's more than one it's in the order of their dates.

And everyone else draws after them? And that's everyone who joined jazz from a company who were part of ALPA correct?

Yup so in the case of my class way back yrs ago. We had 1 ALPA member. The member automatically just picked first then proceeded to draw the next name out of the hat. After that the draw procedure continued. I was near the bottom of the class, but that really didn't do much in the long run. None of the bases were what I wanted anyways.