Open up new bases already !

[Fullflaps]

Whats the lastest on new bases ? Seems like a nice place to be, but before they open up at least YOW and YUL, a lot of experienced pilots (myself included) wont join. Smart thing to do is to open them up before air canada scoops the rest of us up when that new agreement comes along, good luck staffing your planes afterwards.

[PropDog]

Whats the lastest on new bases ? Seems like a nice place to be, but before they open up at least YOW and YUL, a lot of experienced pilots (myself included) wont join. Smart thing to do is to open them up before air canada scoops the rest of us up when that new agreement comes along, good luck staffing your planes afterwards.

“Experienced”

[Grey_Wolf]

Management has been very tightly keeping their cards to their chests about this one, multiple questions were directed at them during OCT/NOV townhall style meeting.

Prior to that townhall, the general consensus was that YOW would have been opened prior to this holiday season.

Due to training backlog, and WestJet's retreat out of the east, Porter capitalized on slots out of YYZ. Re-focus on YYZ first, announcing different routes from YOW, as well a joint ventures and codeshares recently.

YOW's hangar is nearing completion (end of Q2 2024), first phase completed Q4 2023. Maintenance and Admin staff are being moved in for Feb 2024.

YUL is still a ways away, as far as they've announced. Ditto for YHU.

YHZ is in the air, as a short-to-medium term play (1-3 years out).

I'd love for YOW to open up tomorrow so I can stop commuting to/from YYZ; as would the 25 Q drivers based there, as well as the dozen or so internals that have already transferred over from YOW/YHZ. The fear for internals is that it will be a repeat of the "flow" that Encore/WestJet had. FOMO is real!

External hires must realize that these bases are going to be highly sought out, and that your external hire seniority number may not provide you with the QOL that you may be expecting.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I think it's a fair point.

With YYZ being so expensive, lots of pilots move further and further away from that base. Some of us, myself included, live so far away from YYZ we can't make the 2 hour on call notice. If Porter had an E175 YOW base, I'd be very inclined to put my resume in (Embraer experience). I live closer to Ottawa than Toronto.

Also if airlines want to attract pilots they should try their best to improve scheduling and on call rules. Many pilots will settle for a "lower paycheck"*** if the schedule is advantageous. Just look at how many of them are reluctant to upgrade simply because they don't want to have a bad schedule. Simply throwing money at us won't necesarily attract us to a new job. I'm not giving up all my weekends and time with my family to make $50K a year more, sometimes less.

I'm not an airline manager. I can't pretend I know how to run one. It's just my two cents.

***To clarify: I'm not suggesting lower pay. I'm just highlighting the imporantance of a good schedule where one can have a good work/life balance, especially those of us with kids.

[VFS]

I get the delay, there isn’t a need for other bases at this time and I’m sure it would be a headache for a crew scheduling department that seems to be dealing with growing pains as it is.
The day will come though and I feel like it should be sooner than later. The well of pilots will certainly run dry long before 75 tails are crewed and with all due respect to Porter, if Pilots are going to have to commute to YYZ, doing so for a regional airline is far from ideal might as well jump to a long haul carrier to bring down the amount of days worked.

I’ve made the jump to Porter as a E2 DEC, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it so far and definitely consider it a place to hang my hat. However, I will not be commuting to YYZ forever and that’s just a fact. I’ll be patient and deal with the growing pains and am hopeful I won’t have to make a tough decision down the road.

[dontcallmeshirley]

I think it's a fair point.

With YYZ being so expensive, lots of pilots move further and further away from that base. Some of us, myself included, live so far away from YYZ we can't make the 2 hour on call notice. If Porter had an E175 YOW base, I'd be very inclined to put my resume in (Embraer experience). I live closer to Ottawa than Toronto.

Also if airlines want to attract pilots they should try their best to improve scheduling and on call rules. Many pilots will settle for a "lower paycheck"*** if the schedule is advantageous. Just look at how many of them are reluctant to upgrade simply because they don't want to have a bad schedule. Simply throwing money at us won't necesarily attract us to a new job. I'm not giving up all my weekends and time with my family to make $50K a year more, sometimes less.

I'm not an airline manager. I can't pretend I know how to run one. It's just my two cents.

***To clarify: I'm not suggesting lower pay. I'm just highlighting the imporantance of a good schedule where one can have a good work/life balance, especially those of us with kids.

Assuming you need 15 minutes to find parking and 15 minutes to get to the gate from the car, here are some images as to where you could live. If you don't require over an hour to get ready, you have plenty of places that are less expensive.

If you can get into your car within 15 minutes of getting called out (1:15 drive):


30 minutes (1:00 drive):


45 minutes (0:45 drive):

[fish4life]

I think it's a fair point.

With YYZ being so expensive, lots of pilots move further and further away from that base. Some of us, myself included, live so far away from YYZ we can't make the 2 hour on call notice. If Porter had an E175 YOW base, I'd be very inclined to put my resume in (Embraer experience). I live closer to Ottawa than Toronto.

Also if airlines want to attract pilots they should try their best to improve scheduling and on call rules. Many pilots will settle for a "lower paycheck"*** if the schedule is advantageous. Just look at how many of them are reluctant to upgrade simply because they don't want to have a bad schedule. Simply throwing money at us won't necesarily attract us to a new job. I'm not giving up all my weekends and time with my family to make $50K a year more, sometimes less.

I'm not an airline manager. I can't pretend I know how to run one. It's just my two cents.

***To clarify: I'm not suggesting lower pay. I'm just highlighting the imporantance of a good schedule where one can have a good work/life balance, especially those of us with kids.

Assuming you need 15 minutes to find parking and 15 minutes to get to the gate from the car, here are some images as to where you could live. If you don't require over an hour to get ready, you have plenty of places that are less expensive.

If you can get into your car within 15 minutes of getting called out (1:15 drive):


30 minutes (1:00 drive):


45 minutes (0:45 drive):

Definitely not making those drive times work if there is any sort of weather or during certain times of the day

[Chaxterium]

For anyone interested I live 90 minutes (in no traffic) from the airport. For a scheduled flight I give myself 2.5 hours to get to the airport. This is way more time than I need but I like to give myself 30 minutes to make it from the employee parking to the gate and then I always allow extra time for traffic because the 401 is so unpredictable.

So the important question is can I make it to the airport with a two-hour reserve call out? Yep. In rush hour the drive goes from 1h30m to 1h50m so if I'm concerned about traffic then I hop on the 407. It gets me to Viscount with about 15-20 minutes to get to the gate. From that point if I have any issues then so be it. I can't control how long it takes to get through security.

Keep in mind that getting a last-minute call with a report time exactly two hours from when you're called is very very rare. You are usually given quite a bit more notice than that. But regardless, it can happen. So just be prepared. Pre-wash your balls and have your uniform ready to go.

Living 90 minutes away is definitely doable.

[digits_]

For anyone interested I live 90 minutes (in no traffic) from the airport. For a scheduled flight I give myself 2.5 hours to get to the airport. This is way more time than I need but I like to give myself 30 minutes to make it from the employee parking to the gate and then I always allow extra time for traffic because the 401 is so unpredictable.

So the important question is can I make it to the airport with a two-hour reserve call out? Yep. In rush hour the drive goes from 1h30m to 1h50m so if I'm concerned about traffic then I hop on the 407. It gets me to Viscount with about 15-20 minutes to get to the gate. From that point if I have any issues then so be it. I can't control how long it takes to get through security.

Keep in mind that getting a last-minute call with a report time exactly two hours from when you're called is very very rare. You are usually given quite a bit more notice than that. But regardless, it can happen. So just be prepared. Pre-wash your balls and have your uniform ready to go.

Living 90 minutes away is definitely doable.

We're all talking about reserve. But how does it work out with minimum rest when you live 90 minutes away. Does that, strictly speaking, give you the ability for 8 hours of rest/sleep?

[Chaxterium]

We're all talking about reserve. But how does it work out with minimum rest when you live 90 minutes away. Does that, strictly speaking, give you the ability for 8 hours of rest/sleep?

Hasn't been an issue at all. The few (very few) times I've had min rest between pairings I got a room in the city.

[YC87DRVR]

I’m a little shocked the Porter/Jazz/Encore and others haven’t developed a robust basically live anywhere we fly system yet as a way of Pilot attraction and retention.
Maybe it will come and it’s probably too early in Porters expansion that the frequencies on routes don’t support it yet.

While Porter hasn’t been shy to up salaries (good on them), I think being an industry leader in the work/life balance for your pilots could be huge in both attraction and retention? Me thinks it would be cheaper instead of upping hundreds of Pilots salaries, hire a dozen or more additional crew schedulers making little more than minimum wage. Have their sole purpose in building schedules that accommodate Pilots starting and ending pairings in their domiciles. Hell, they’d probably save money in the long run.

But what do I know, I’m just a dummy sitting at the pointy end.

[fliter]

, hire a dozen or more additional crew schedulers making little more than minimum wage. Have their sole purpose in building schedules that accommodate Pilots starting and ending pairings in their domiciles.

Ha ha, Porter crew schedulers have a hard enough time building schedules starting and ending at our regular bases.

I can't imagine this working. You'd need both pilots to live in the same place and cabin crew then too? Or have a lot of deadheads in the schedule? Or drop-off/collect a new crew member on each turn?

Even if you managed to do this, you won't be able to optimize anything else (routes, days off, layovers). There is a reason not a single airline anywhere does it. Not that I know of anyway.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I’m a little shocked the Porter/Jazz/Encore and others haven’t developed a robust basically live anywhere we fly system yet as a way of Pilot attraction and retention.
Maybe it will come and it’s probably too early in Porters expansion that the frequencies on routes don’t support it yet.

While Porter hasn’t been shy to up salaries (good on them), I think being an industry leader in the work/life balance for your pilots could be huge in both attraction and retention? Me thinks it would be cheaper instead of upping hundreds of Pilots salaries, hire a dozen or more additional crew schedulers making little more than minimum wage. Have their sole purpose in building schedules that accommodate Pilots starting and ending pairings in their domiciles. Hell, they’d probably save money in the long run.

But what do I know, I’m just a dummy sitting at the pointy end.

I agree with you 100%. I've been saying this for years. How come Wizzair cane have pilot bases in pretty much every medium size European city? Romania alone has Wizzair bases in Bucharest, Cluj, Timisoara, Iasi, Bacau, Craiova and a few others. That country is two thirds the size of Ontario. Somehow, Canadian carriers can only have bases in YVR, YYZ and YUL, the three most expensive cities in Canada.

We live in a digital world, where millions of people work from home. You don't even need an office at the "home base". It can all be done remotely from Toronto for all the admin stuff. There are more ways than one to retain pilots. The salaries that companies pay will never suffice to cover the cost of living in large Canadian cities.

[Me262]

Will there be any base planed for western canada? If yes, which one? (Yvr, yyc?)

[lowoleo22]

Those are some very cute maps. Good luck getting to YYZ/YTZ within 2hrs from Hamilton, Waterloo or Barrie. Don't forget to factor in your time parking your car and walking to the terminal, going through security and getting to the gate. Those drives can easily take 2hrs or more at peak times or when there is accident. And spoiler alert, *there's almost always an accident*. Be prepared to sit around in your uniform all day with your bags by the door if you want to make the callout at 7am, 2pm, 5pm, 6pm, etc. Needless to say I'm in the open up more bases category. If living comfortably in the GTA means it takes 3hrs to get to/from work I will be the first to sign up for a new base transfer.

[flyinhigh]

Will there be any base planed for western canada? If yes, which one? (Yvr, yyc?)

Yes, but the company keeps their cards to their chest pretty good. When a base does open, it will be after YOW, and most likely after YHZ.

My guess is the base will be in YVR.

[up on one]

My experience aligns comfortably with those conservative maps. I’ve received a short call out (2 hrs) while playing hockey in Waterloo. I even had time for the rink shower to come up to an appropriate temperature and still arrive at the gate with 5 minutes to spare.

Before Covid this could have never happened. During Covid a lot of money was dumped into highway widening on the 401. I plan 60-80 minutes to parking because normally the worst I’ve seen post Covid was 80 minutes unless of course the highway is closed. That is out of my control and if that’s the case google will give me a detour before I leave (the ice rink, gym, golf course, kayak on the river) and I update dispatch accordingly if required

[Me262]

My experience aligns comfortably with those conservative maps. I’ve received a short call out (2 hrs) while playing hockey in Waterloo. I even had time for the rink shower to come up to an appropriate temperature and still arrive at the gate with 5 minutes to spare.

Before Covid this could have never happened. During Covid a lot of money was dumped into highway widening on the 401. I plan 60-80 minutes to parking because normally the worst I’ve seen post Covid was 80 minutes unless of course the highway is closed. That is out of my control and if that’s the case google will give me a detour before I leave (the ice rink, gym, golf course, kayak on the river) and I update dispatch accordingly if required

Do they care? If you can't make the callout (being on reserve) aren't you gone? Or are you talking about picking OT and you can tell them the ETA you might be able to get in?

Because AFAIK if we talk about reserve callout, you GOTTA make the 2hrs no?

[up on one]

I think you’ve missed the point entirely which is with proper planning you could live as far west as Woodstock and still enjoy life on call (as long as child care is available or not required)

The second part is shit happens. I refuse to plan a commute around infrequent non-standard scenarios. What I will do is take weather and peak traffic into consideration and use google maps to ensure there aren’t any unforeseen circumstances. In the unlikely event there’s a 30 car pile up or your battery is dead then inform dispatch with an appropriate timeline.

[Chaxterium]

Do they care? If you can't make the callout (being on reserve) aren't you gone?

No. It's not that draconian. What the poster above me mentioned is exactly what I do. I make accommodations for weather and traffic. Those are reasonable things to have to expect to deal with on my commute to work. Anything outside of that, breaking down on the road, major accident, etc, is out of my control and I therefore have no problem calling dispatch and telling them what time I'll be arriving.

Keep in mind that a two-hour callout almost never happens but even when it does you still have three hours. They will call at 18:00 and tell you your check in time is 20:00 but the flight leaves at 21:00.

So if in my example above it looks like I'm not going to make it to the gate until 20:05 I just give the other guy or girl a heads up through G Chat. Dispatch doesn't need to know a thing.

[VFS]

Think the driving times to YYZ is pointless for a thread about opening other bases.
Those of us that want other bases don’t care if we were given a free house and the commute was a 10 minute drive with zero traffic and 4 good coffee spots on the way…. I still wouldn’t live in YYZ.
New bases need to happen if Porter wants to remain competitive in the current Pilot market and if they have any chance of crewing 75 jets.

[cjp]

Likely 100+, but who's counting.

[Chaxterium]

Likely 100+, but who's counting.

I've heard of 100 for sure....but where are you getting the "+"?

[co-joe]

Whats the lastest on new bases ? Seems like a nice place to be, but before they open up at least YOW and YUL, a lot of experienced pilots (myself included) wont join. Smart thing to do is to open them up before air canada scoops the rest of us up when that new agreement comes along, good luck staffing your planes afterwards.

You have to give PD's training department time to catch up, if they opened a western base, they'd have about 200 experienced jet captains knocking on their door tomorrow morning, they can only train so many at a time...

[cjp]

Likely 100+, but who's counting.

I've heard of 100 for sure....but where are you getting the "+"?

Talking to B.D, he's always hinting at more than 100 jets. Whether it comes to fruition is anyones guess.