2023 earnings

[Upgradeable]

Edited

[Hysteria]

Wow, with a shortage of instructors, I would have thought the pay would have gone up.
That works out to 55/hr of logged time, how many hours would you say you worked doing ground instruction or walk around or whatever else they assigned to you?

Our hourly rate is much much less than that - but yeah, the 22K gross is between flying and ground. Fair amount of ground time between teaching ground school, pre-flight briefings, and solo supervision. Maybe ~ 200 hours ground.

Are you still seeing demand as a flight instructor regarding new students training or is it fairly cutthroat to get, and keep students?

I think it is a bit less at my school than previous years; however, I know instructors a few hours away who work 6 days a week getting way more hours than myself. And that place has at least a handful of instructors. They’re busier than my school.

[Canadaflyer46]

Impressive, very nice.

Let's see Paul Allen's 2023 earnings.

I see what you did there

[Upgradeable]

Edited

[flying4dollars]

$500

[rudder]

Jazz top scale training
21% increase in September, looking forward to next year.
175K, includes:
OT 2100.00(2 single day at old pay, zero OT since March)
6000.00 Long service award

Does not include:
Company DB contribution 31,000
Company benefits contribution 6,000.00
Company rent offset(Training pilots) 8600.00
ESOP Match TBD
Per diems ?

Not gonna lie… lol. The show me yours and I’ll show you mine made me laugh pretty good.

But, I guess it’s cool since we all play in the same league.
Well…..Apart from AC, they’re in the NHL.

Looking at your numbers… not so bad. Room for improvement, but what airline doesn’t?

There is no NHL in Canada …… yet. Let’s see how the AC pilots make out.

I won’t bother posting my numbers but here are the 2023 numbers from a relative flying in the US:

NB CA
US$385k, plus
US$45k contributed by employer to 401k plan, plus
All benefits company paid.

That is US$430k all-in. C$580k flying a NB.

All of Canada is in the stone ages compared to the US, and most of the rest of the world. Why would anybody be posting a T4 in Canada?

In Canada, piloting is a job. In the rest of the world, it is a profession.

[cdnavater]

Jazz top scale training
21% increase in September, looking forward to next year.
175K, includes:
OT 2100.00(2 single day at old pay, zero OT since March)
6000.00 Long service award

Does not include:
Company DB contribution 31,000
Company benefits contribution 6,000.00
Company rent offset(Training pilots) 8600.00
ESOP Match TBD
Per diems ?

Not gonna lie… lol. The show me yours and I’ll show you mine made me laugh pretty good.

But, I guess it’s cool since we all play in the same league.
Well…..Apart from AC, they’re in the NHL.

Looking at your numbers… not so bad. Room for improvement, but what airline doesn’t?

There is no NHL in Canada …… yet. Let’s see how the AC pilots make out.

I won’t bother posting my numbers but here are the 2023 numbers from a relative flying in the US:

NB CA
US$385k, plus
US$45k contributed by employer to 401k plan, plus
All benefits company paid.

That is US$430k all-in. C$580k flying a NB.

All of Canada is in the stone ages compared to the US, and most of the rest of the world. Why would anybody be posting a T4 in Canada?

In Canada, piloting is a job. In the rest of the world, it is a profession.

Sometimes it takes stuff like this to wake people up, we are woefully underpaid and over taxed in this country.
With respect to Jazz, we are still struggling to find or keep pilots yet radio silence. So all the vote no and they’ll be back with more people are silent now, clearly was a risk.
Porter, as much as they pay, they are still losing pilots to AC, not sure about anywhere else, the only other legitimate option from Porter would be WJ.
If AC fixes the start pay to above 100k, you’ll see a mass exodus from many other places.
To be comparable to a US legacy, starting pay should be about 130k and after one year onto formula pay approaching 200k with Captain pay being 40% higher than FO for all fleet. Where will they land on this?

[cdnavater]

Yr 1 Porter E2 Training Captain - 415 flight hours this year.

Set to finish with approximately $260,000 (waiting for last pay stub for 15th onward). If I was hungrier, I could've crested 300k but I'm definitely on the lower end of pay for the training Captain group. Lifestyle and family are too important.

Recall, we went from 122k, to 156k and now we're at 177k min guarantee @ 75 hours as of July.

Breakdown:
OT - $70K (trainers were scheduled OT for most of the year - finally calming down).
Per diems - $4300 is added to those numbers (it's on the stub).
DSP Match - $5,700
Performance Pays - $600.00
Training Premium - $6500.00

I’m curious, how many days per month is that?
For me to earn 70,000 in OT it would be an extra 4 days per month, so 20 days every month, that will never happen for me, I generally don’t do overtime, 16 days is already enough.

[cjp]

Yr 1 Porter E2 Training Captain - 415 flight hours this year.

Set to finish with approximately $260,000 (waiting for last pay stub for 15th onward). If I was hungrier, I could've crested 300k but I'm definitely on the lower end of pay for the training Captain group. Lifestyle and family are too important.

Recall, we went from 122k, to 156k and now we're at 177k min guarantee @ 75 hours as of July.

Breakdown:
OT - $70K (trainers were scheduled OT for most of the year - finally calming down).
Per diems - $4300 is added to those numbers (it's on the stub).
DSP Match - $5,700
Performance Pays - $600.00
Training Premium - $6500.00

I’m curious, how many days per month is that?
For me to earn 70,000 in OT it would be an extra 4 days per month, so 20 days every month, that will never happen for me, I generally don’t do overtime, 16 days is already enough.

Yeah 18-20 max for those crazy months, generally I would request more focused doubles shifts in sim (which can be tiring, but efficient) or bid for busier high credit pairings (western flying). I could get by without too much family fuss initially on the excuse of scheduled growing pains. Things are much nicer now, with a good mix of time at home, time in sim and time on the line.

Looking back I don't remember it feeling exhausting, but continuing at that pace on a more continuous basis would've been bad for my physical and mental health.

The nice thing is I have control over how much or how little.

Will be interesting to see our response to Air Canada's wawcon changes.

[frog]

Year 1 Capt Sunwing
151k base pay
Overtime 90k
working in average of 13 days a month.

[Hysteria]

Some interesting ones from “End of 2023 Salary Survey” on airlinepilotcentral.

“ENVOY
25 YEAR LCA
TOTAL $602k {includes $5k per Diem, $8k profit share,$40k bonus}
Worked 92 days, no weekends, no Holidays, 5 weeks vacation, 15 weeks with DTS.
$217 HR.
LCA override 100% for $435 HR almost every HR training
All OT worked at 300% with %100 override for OE
Commuter with positive space to and from
$6543 average per day worked
Maxed out 401k with company and personal contributions.”

“UAL
Year 2 737 FO (2 months), 737 CA rest
2023 pay
$345k (12k retro from last year)
$53.3k "401k" DC (incl spill into retirement health account)
---
396.3k total comp”

“JetBlue 320 FO Year 2/3

Wages: ~ $250K
401K DC: ~ $38K
Block: About 490

Live in base.

Total Comp: ~ $288K“

“Widget 73 CA
Year 6
Flight pay: 302k
Retro/signing bonus: 50k
per diem: 6k
PS: 12k
401k DC: 43.5k
total: 413.5k

Numbers are rounded and inflated by the retro. Mostly line-holder, no premium, try not to fly much but do swap a lot for less work/more pay.“

[cjp]

Some interesting ones from “End of 2023 Salary Survey” on airlinepilotcentral.

“ENVOY
25 YEAR LCA
TOTAL $602k {includes $5k per Diem, $8k profit share,$40k bonus}
Worked 92 days, no weekends, no Holidays, 5 weeks vacation, 15 weeks with DTS.
$217 HR.
LCA override 100% for $435 HR almost every HR training
All OT worked at 300% with %100 override for OE
Commuter with positive space to and from
$6543 average per day worked
Maxed out 401k with company and personal contributions.”

“UAL
Year 2 737 FO (2 months), 737 CA rest
2023 pay
$345k (12k retro from last year)
$53.3k "401k" DC (incl spill into retirement health account)
---
396.3k total comp”

“JetBlue 320 FO Year 2/3

Wages: ~ $250K
401K DC: ~ $38K
Block: About 490

Live in base.

Total Comp: ~ $288K“

“Widget 73 CA
Year 6
Flight pay: 302k
Retro/signing bonus: 50k
per diem: 6k
PS: 12k
401k DC: 43.5k
total: 413.5k

Numbers are rounded and inflated by the retro. Mostly line-holder, no premium, try not to fly much but do swap a lot for less work/more pay.“

Good reminder of what we're striving for.

[propstojets]

Deleted

[JHR]

Corporate jet captain
$200,000
122 hours

[‘Bob’]

Year 1 Flat Pay AC
1 year of employment

Everything is rounded obv..

Base pay - $52,000
Premium (overtime)- $500 (I think I've done 1 day of OT)
ESOP- $4600
Per diems- $8000
Total taxable income- $54000
Total "gross" paid- $65000 (so including perdiems and other expenses)
Pension- $3300

Drum roll please... Total Net $43000

Air Canadas smallest airplane weighs twice what mine does and if I went over there today my gross pay would be cut in half. Man that hurts.
I don’t want to be one to just swoop in and benefit off ALPAs hard work but man I just cannot afford that pay cut. It’s too much.
I really hope you guys get the big win you deserve. Good on you for fighting the good fight.

He's a year 1 FO, you're a captain, training captain even. Not really comparing apples with apples

Doesn't matter. AC pay is insulting no matter what the aircraft or role.

And if you want to compare role.. a brand new King Air FO with a CPL will make more money at many organizations.

[Old fella]

Retired for quite e few years,
Total income 91K, that includes modest RRIF and CCP/OAS.

I try to spend wisely with moderate success .

[Inverted2]

I made just over 180k at Jazz last year. Top payscale. A bit of overtime, couple days every other month and an LTC. Per-diems were approx 16k for the year. (I know it’s not income but I spend about 1/3 of what I get on layovers). I often wonder what our raise really was before Air Canada management kiboshed it.

[Core]

Year 3 Airline FO
$99k incl perdiems.

I left a trade 10 years ago that's tripled in value since. I've been bleeding income for the last decade comparatively, and will only get a similar (But not higher) income upgrading and being responsible for 200 lives at .80 as opposed to using some tools like a monkey. At least I can retire 10 years later than if I hadn't have left...

Wrong country to have picked this career by a long shot.

[fliter]

I left a trade 10 years ago that's tripled in value since.

Do you mind sharing which trade?

[Commonwealth]

I'm such a failure

[island boy]

ME3 Widebody Capt

Net $490,000 - converted to CAD at the 2023 average exchange rate.

980 paid hours last year - average of 81 hours per month with around 30 of those in the bunk (normal to get 2 ULR flights per month).
"Best" months 10 days on (2x vacation months). "Worst" month 20 days on (1x). Average 16 days on.
Landed the jet as pilot flying 27 times in the year.

[DanWEC]

ME3 Widebody Capt

Net $490,000 - converted to CAD at the 2023 average exchange rate.

980 paid hours last year - average of 81 hours per month with around 30 of those in the bunk (normal to get 2 ULR flights per month).
"Best" months 10 days on (2x vacation months). "Worst" month 20 days on (1x). Average 16 days on.
Landed the jet as pilot flying 27 times in the year.

Any of them hiring? I have some JW Blue as a placement fee!

[yowflyer23]

ME3 Widebody Capt

Net $490,000 - converted to CAD at the 2023 average exchange rate.

980 paid hours last year - average of 81 hours per month with around 30 of those in the bunk (normal to get 2 ULR flights per month).
"Best" months 10 days on (2x vacation months). "Worst" month 20 days on (1x). Average 16 days on.
Landed the jet as pilot flying 27 times in the year.

Knowing what you know today, would you still make the move to go to the middle east today? I've always been intrigued by the idea of going to EK someday, but I'd hate to go there, not like it, and then start from scratch in Canada again at the bottom of seniority. The overall compensation package sure seems enticing though.

[Me262]

ME3 Widebody Capt

Net $490,000 - converted to CAD at the 2023 average exchange rate.

980 paid hours last year - average of 81 hours per month with around 30 of those in the bunk (normal to get 2 ULR flights per month).
"Best" months 10 days on (2x vacation months). "Worst" month 20 days on (1x). Average 16 days on.
Landed the jet as pilot flying 27 times in the year.

Any opportunity to start as an FO?

[ogopogo]

Anybody notice he said NET $490K? NET as in tax free, all of it in the savings account? Every year.