yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:52 pm
Out of curiosity, how do people make the commute to YUL work when living in YOW with a 2 hour callout to the gate on reserve? It's 1hr45-50 just to the employee parking lot and that's without traffic... Still have to find parking, walk to the terminal and clear security. Do you just rip down the 417 at 150km/h? Seems like it would be cutting it real close.
Like what was said, 2 hours to report and we now typically meet at the aircraft, not the crewroom. I knew a guy who had a two hour drive from Lethbridge to the Calgary parking lot, in the contract it said Crewsked will attempt a call and if unanswered will call again in 15 minutes, so he wouldn’t answer the first call, he would get in his car and start driving so when the second call came in he was already on the road giving him a head start. He did say he was burned a couple times because they were calling with a longer than two hour report.
Also, most guys have the crewroom number or even the pilots number and call if they might be a few minutes late.
yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:52 pm
Out of curiosity, how do people make the commute to YUL work when living in YOW with a 2 hour callout to the gate on reserve? It's 1hr45-50 just to the employee parking lot and that's without traffic... Still have to find parking, walk to the terminal and clear security. Do you just rip down the 417 at 150km/h? Seems like it would be cutting it real close.
Like what was said, 2 hours to report and we now typically meet at the aircraft, not the crewroom. I knew a guy who had a two hour drive from Lethbridge to the Calgary parking lot, in the contract it said Crewsked will attempt a call and if unanswered will call again in 15 minutes, so he wouldn’t answer the first call, he would get in his car and start driving so when the second call came in he was already on the road giving him a head start. He did say he was burned a couple times because they were calling with a longer than two hour report.
Also, most guys have the crewroom number or even the pilots number and call if they might be a few minutes late.
What is considered to be reporting for work in this instance? Is it when you arrive at the gate to meet the crew or do you clock in somewhere? I'm amazed that people can go from sitting on the couch at home in YOW to showing up at the gate in uniform to meet the crew within 2 hours. Isn't the employee lot next to the park 'n' fly? That's gotta be a good 10-15 walk to the terminal on top of the drive. The 15 minute head start from not answering crew scheduling is an interesting idea though. I apologize for the barrage of questions. It will be my first time flying at an airline and this is all new to me. I will liklely move to base for simplicity's sake, but good to know that this commute could potentially be feasible on reserve without needing a crash pad.
yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:52 pm
Out of curiosity, how do people make the commute to YUL work when living in YOW with a 2 hour callout to the gate on reserve? It's 1hr45-50 just to the employee parking lot and that's without traffic... Still have to find parking, walk to the terminal and clear security. Do you just rip down the 417 at 150km/h? Seems like it would be cutting it real close.
Like what was said, 2 hours to report and we now typically meet at the aircraft, not the crewroom. I knew a guy who had a two hour drive from Lethbridge to the Calgary parking lot, in the contract it said Crewsked will attempt a call and if unanswered will call again in 15 minutes, so he wouldn’t answer the first call, he would get in his car and start driving so when the second call came in he was already on the road giving him a head start. He did say he was burned a couple times because they were calling with a longer than two hour report.
Also, most guys have the crewroom number or even the pilots number and call if they might be a few minutes late.
What is considered to be reporting for work in this instance? Is it when you arrive at the gate to meet the crew or do you clock in somewhere? I'm amazed that people can go from sitting on the couch at home in YOW to showing up at the gate in uniform to meet the crew within 2 hours. Isn't the employee lot next to the park 'n' fly? That's gotta be a good 10-15 walk to the terminal on top of the drive. The 15 minute head start from not answering crew scheduling is an interesting idea though. I apologize for the barrage of questions. It will be my first time flying at an airline and this is all new to me. I will liklely move to base for simplicity's sake, but good to know that this commute could potentially be feasible on reserve without needing a crash pad.
Reporting is usually 1 hour prior to the flight in the crewroom but there was a memo out years back about meeting at the gate where 45 mins before a head start flight or 30 mins before a through flight was considered appropriate.
As for reserve, you would get better answers from someone on reserve and I have not been on reserve for at least a decade.
Living at a base would definitely make life simpler in the long run, with Jazz not likely being your career airline, being flexible about where you can live will definitely pay off in the long run, believe me, I only commute because I have to, it’s that or divorce plus I have zero desire to live at any of our bases.
Like what was said, 2 hours to report and we now typically meet at the aircraft, not the crewroom. I knew a guy who had a two hour drive from Lethbridge to the Calgary parking lot, in the contract it said Crewsked will attempt a call and if unanswered will call again in 15 minutes, so he wouldn’t answer the first call, he would get in his car and start driving so when the second call came in he was already on the road giving him a head start. He did say he was burned a couple times because they were calling with a longer than two hour report.
Also, most guys have the crewroom number or even the pilots number and call if they might be a few minutes late.
What is considered to be reporting for work in this instance? Is it when you arrive at the gate to meet the crew or do you clock in somewhere? I'm amazed that people can go from sitting on the couch at home in YOW to showing up at the gate in uniform to meet the crew within 2 hours. Isn't the employee lot next to the park 'n' fly? That's gotta be a good 10-15 walk to the terminal on top of the drive. The 15 minute head start from not answering crew scheduling is an interesting idea though. I apologize for the barrage of questions. It will be my first time flying at an airline and this is all new to me. I will liklely move to base for simplicity's sake, but good to know that this commute could potentially be feasible on reserve without needing a crash pad.
Reporting is usually 1 hour prior to the flight in the crewroom but there was a memo out years back about meeting at the gate where 45 mins before a head start flight or 30 mins before a through flight was considered appropriate.
As for reserve, you would get better answers from someone on reserve and I have not been on reserve for at least a decade.
Living at a base would definitely make life simpler in the long run, with Jazz not likely being your career airline, being flexible about where you can live will definitely pay off in the long run, believe me, I only commute because I have to, it’s that or divorce plus I have zero desire to live at any of our bases.
When I was jazz, no one ever met in the crew room. It was always at the gate. For multiple reasons… 1) the crew room is where you have to listen to people talk about how crappy their pairings are, and 2) your crew is most likely on a inbound which has been delayed and/or cancelled. My advice: go to where you’re supposed to be at the time of which you are required to be. The rest of it is outside of your control.
Like what was said, 2 hours to report and we now typically meet at the aircraft, not the crewroom. I knew a guy who had a two hour drive from Lethbridge to the Calgary parking lot, in the contract it said Crewsked will attempt a call and if unanswered will call again in 15 minutes, so he wouldn’t answer the first call, he would get in his car and start driving so when the second call came in he was already on the road giving him a head start. He did say he was burned a couple times because they were calling with a longer than two hour report.
Also, most guys have the crewroom number or even the pilots number and call if they might be a few minutes late.
What is considered to be reporting for work in this instance? Is it when you arrive at the gate to meet the crew or do you clock in somewhere? I'm amazed that people can go from sitting on the couch at home in YOW to showing up at the gate in uniform to meet the crew within 2 hours. Isn't the employee lot next to the park 'n' fly? That's gotta be a good 10-15 walk to the terminal on top of the drive. The 15 minute head start from not answering crew scheduling is an interesting idea though. I apologize for the barrage of questions. It will be my first time flying at an airline and this is all new to me. I will liklely move to base for simplicity's sake, but good to know that this commute could potentially be feasible on reserve without needing a crash pad.
Reporting is usually 1 hour prior to the flight in the crewroom but there was a memo out years back about meeting at the gate where 45 mins before a head start flight or 30 mins before a through flight was considered appropriate.
As for reserve, you would get better answers from someone on reserve and I have not been on reserve for at least a decade.
Living at a base would definitely make life simpler in the long run, with Jazz not likely being your career airline, being flexible about where you can live will definitely pay off in the long run, believe me, I only commute because I have to, it’s that or divorce plus I have zero desire to live at any of our bases.
How long to get off reserve in YYC? 3 months, 12 months?
yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:40 am
What is considered to be reporting for work in this instance? Is it when you arrive at the gate to meet the crew or do you clock in somewhere? I'm amazed that people can go from sitting on the couch at home in YOW to showing up at the gate in uniform to meet the crew within 2 hours. Isn't the employee lot next to the park 'n' fly? That's gotta be a good 10-15 walk to the terminal on top of the drive. The 15 minute head start from not answering crew scheduling is an interesting idea though. I apologize for the barrage of questions. It will be my first time flying at an airline and this is all new to me. I will liklely move to base for simplicity's sake, but good to know that this commute could potentially be feasible on reserve without needing a crash pad.
Reporting is usually 1 hour prior to the flight in the crewroom but there was a memo out years back about meeting at the gate where 45 mins before a head start flight or 30 mins before a through flight was considered appropriate.
As for reserve, you would get better answers from someone on reserve and I have not been on reserve for at least a decade.
Living at a base would definitely make life simpler in the long run, with Jazz not likely being your career airline, being flexible about where you can live will definitely pay off in the long run, believe me, I only commute because I have to, it’s that or divorce plus I have zero desire to live at any of our bases.
How long to get off reserve in YYC? 3 months, 12 months?
yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:43 am
What day does that January Equipment bid come out that has been alluded to a few times in this thread?
If it runs (company option) - January 15. Usually runs when there are meaningful changes in equipment staffing or location from previous bid. The disposal of the CRJ200’s would logically meet this criteria.
yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:43 am
What day does that January Equipment bid come out that has been alluded to a few times in this thread?
If it runs (company option) - January 15. Usually runs when there are meaningful changes in equipment staffing or location from previous bid. The disposal of the CRJ200’s would logically meet this criteria.
Can also be delayed subject to mutual consent.
How does this affect the aircraft types offering for the ground school after Jan 15?
yowflyer23 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:43 am
What day does that January Equipment bid come out that has been alluded to a few times in this thread?
If it runs (company option) - January 15. Usually runs when there are meaningful changes in equipment staffing or location from previous bid. The disposal of the CRJ200’s would logically meet this criteria.
Can also be delayed subject to mutual consent.
How does this affect the aircraft types offering for the ground school after Jan 15?
Not sure.
Generally speaking, E175 dramatically understaffed. CRJ adequately staffed but fleet being nominally reduced. Not sure about Q400 but suspect close to adequately staffed. No idea where pilot attrition will be highest. Pilot movement to AC likely to slow down for first few months of 2024 but there are lots of other potential destinations for Jazz pilots to consider.
A Q4 or E75 type endorsement is virtually a free pass in to Porter. Any jet time will get you on at Flair, Morningstar, Cargojet, WJ(SWG), Lynx, or Canada Jetlines. And there is corporate.
The much rumoured recession isn’t happening so there should continue to be attrition away from Jazz on the order of hundreds in 2024.
mmm...bacon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:59 pm
^ What do you thank would stem that attrition, Rudder? Is it still a question of $$?
For those whose ultimate goal is AC? Probably not. But a more orderly, predictable, transparent, and effective movement system from Jazz to AC plus more competitive pay might help to stop some from jumping ship.
For those choosing OAL after Jazz, it is probably a combination of $$, lifestyle, metal, and the fact that it might actually be a faster route to AC.
Status quo won’t work unless the goal is a much smaller Jazz operation.
mmm...bacon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:59 pm
^ What do you thank would stem that attrition, Rudder? Is it still a question of $$?
Many of those leaving now are due to the schedules here at Jazz. Most days are minimum credit so you are consistently working 18 days/month which in itself is exhausting. Reduced routes means you are always flying to the same places which get monotonous as well. When you factor the time away from home the pay is pretty bad too. It should be 16 days max like other companies.
mmm...bacon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:59 pm
^ What do you thank would stem that attrition, Rudder? Is it still a question of $$?
Many of those leaving now are due to the schedules here at Jazz. Most days are minimum credit so you are consistently working 18 days/month which in itself is exhausting. Reduced routes means you are always flying to the same places which get monotonous as well. When you factor the time away from home the pay is pretty bad too. It should be 16 days max like other companies.
Blocks 85-90 (thanks JAZ MEC). Average daily credit less than 5.0. Long (unpaid) daily sits (usually at exactly 2:1 ratio). Multi day ratio at exactly 4:1. How does 4 sectors per day sound……almost every day.
There is no improving trend. This is what you are signing up for if you are coming to or remain at Jazz.
Nobody wants to do this for years. There are better schedules and better paycheques to be had elsewhere.
mmm...bacon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:59 pm
^ What do you thank would stem that attrition, Rudder? Is it still a question of $$?
Many of those leaving now are due to the schedules here at Jazz. Most days are minimum credit so you are consistently working 18 days/month which in itself is exhausting. Reduced routes means you are always flying to the same places which get monotonous as well. When you factor the time away from home the pay is pretty bad too. It should be 16 days max like other companies.
Blocks 85-90 (thanks JAZ MEC). Average daily credit less than 5.0. Long (unpaid) daily sits (usually at exactly 2:1 ratio). Multi day ratio at exactly 4:1. How does 4 sectors per day sound……almost every day.
There is no improving trend. This is what you are signing up for if you are coming to or remain at Jazz.
Nobody wants to do this for years. There are better schedules and better paycheques to be had elsewhere.
Been making regular withdrawals from my sick bank I can tell you that. I didn’t come here to work 18-19 days a month and I won’t be.
Many of those leaving now are due to the schedules here at Jazz. Most days are minimum credit so you are consistently working 18 days/month which in itself is exhausting. Reduced routes means you are always flying to the same places which get monotonous as well. When you factor the time away from home the pay is pretty bad too. It should be 16 days max like other companies.
Blocks 85-90 (thanks JAZ MEC). Average daily credit less than 5.0. Long (unpaid) daily sits (usually at exactly 2:1 ratio). Multi day ratio at exactly 4:1. How does 4 sectors per day sound……almost every day.
There is no improving trend. This is what you are signing up for if you are coming to or remain at Jazz.
Nobody wants to do this for years. There are better schedules and better paycheques to be had elsewhere.
Been making regular withdrawals from my sick bank I can tell you that. I didn’t come here to work 18-19 days a month and I won’t be.
Jazz flying has become so inefficient that all of the work rules need to be re-written.
Max work days 16 (as if that were a great deal). Min daily credit 5.0. Higher for multi day trips (at least 5.5 per day). Get rid of 2:1 and change it to duty day -4 (i.e. a 10 hour duty day is with at least 6.0). Change 4:1 to 3.5:1.
The current Jazz work rules were for the exception, not the norm. Now it is the norm. And it won’t get better.
Re-write the rules. Think of it as a recruitment/retention expense. Otherwise CA will leave to start elsewhere @$200k/yr and FO’s will leave to fly NB working 6-8 less days per month.
Blocks 85-90 (thanks JAZ MEC). Average daily credit less than 5.0. Long (unpaid) daily sits (usually at exactly 2:1 ratio). Multi day ratio at exactly 4:1. How does 4 sectors per day sound……almost every day.
There is no improving trend. This is what you are signing up for if you are coming to or remain at Jazz.
Nobody wants to do this for years. There are better schedules and better paycheques to be had elsewhere.
Been making regular withdrawals from my sick bank I can tell you that. I didn’t come here to work 18-19 days a month and I won’t be.
Jazz flying has become so inefficient that all of the work rules need to be re-written.
Max work days 16 (as if that were a great deal). Min daily credit 5.0. Higher for multi day trips (at least 5.5 per day). Get rid of 2:1 and change it to duty day -4 (i.e. a 10 hour duty day is with at least 6.0). Change 4:1 to 3.5:1.
The current Jazz work rules were for the exception, not the norm. Now it is the norm. And it won’t get better.
Re-write the rules. Think of it as a recruitment/retention expense. Otherwise CA will leave to start elsewhere @$200k/yr and FO’s will leave to fly NB working 6-8 less days per month.
With AC being run by an accountant, he is far too short sighted to understand this contract is garbage, and people won't come here to work 19 days a month. In the mean time people will do what they need to do to protect their mental health, and just bookoff.
It is utterly insane and demoralizing working for a mothership that would quite literally destory its own network rather than pay pilots. It is crazy the damage they are prepared to endure just so they don't have to pay pilots. Certainly doesn't inspire anyone to go above and beyond.
Been making regular withdrawals from my sick bank I can tell you that. I didn’t come here to work 18-19 days a month and I won’t be.
Jazz flying has become so inefficient that all of the work rules need to be re-written.
Max work days 16 (as if that were a great deal). Min daily credit 5.0. Higher for multi day trips (at least 5.5 per day). Get rid of 2:1 and change it to duty day -4 (i.e. a 10 hour duty day is with at least 6.0). Change 4:1 to 3.5:1.
The current Jazz work rules were for the exception, not the norm. Now it is the norm. And it won’t get better.
Re-write the rules. Think of it as a recruitment/retention expense. Otherwise CA will leave to start elsewhere @$200k/yr and FO’s will leave to fly NB working 6-8 less days per month.
With AC being run by an accountant, he is far too short sighted to understand this contract is garbage, and people won't come here to work 19 days a month. In the mean time people will do what they need to do to protect their mental health, and just bookoff.
It is utterly insane and demoralizing working for a mothership that would quite literally destory its own network rather than pay pilots. It is crazy the damage they are prepared to endure just so they don't have to pay pilots. Certainly doesn't inspire anyone to go above and beyond.
When you tell a pairing optimizer (sodomizer) that 4.5 hours of flying in a 9 hour duty period is a ‘perfect score’ then guess what the optimizer does? It builds an entire month of these type of trips.
Garbage in - garbage out.
This is (supposedly) why pilots form unions and negotiate CBA’s with rigs.
Jazz pilots need new rigs because the flying is not going to change.
Jazz flying has become so inefficient that all of the work rules need to be re-written.
Max work days 16 (as if that were a great deal). Min daily credit 5.0. Higher for multi day trips (at least 5.5 per day). Get rid of 2:1 and change it to duty day -4 (i.e. a 10 hour duty day is with at least 6.0). Change 4:1 to 3.5:1.
The current Jazz work rules were for the exception, not the norm. Now it is the norm. And it won’t get better.
Re-write the rules. Think of it as a recruitment/retention expense. Otherwise CA will leave to start elsewhere @$200k/yr and FO’s will leave to fly NB working 6-8 less days per month.
With AC being run by an accountant, he is far too short sighted to understand this contract is garbage, and people won't come here to work 19 days a month. In the mean time people will do what they need to do to protect their mental health, and just bookoff.
It is utterly insane and demoralizing working for a mothership that would quite literally destory its own network rather than pay pilots. It is crazy the damage they are prepared to endure just so they don't have to pay pilots. Certainly doesn't inspire anyone to go above and beyond.
When you tell a pairing optimizer (sodomizer) that 4.5 hours of flying in a 9 hour duty period is a ‘perfect score’ then guess what the optimizer does? It builds an entire month of these type of trips.
Garbage in - garbage out.
This is (supposedly) why pilots form unions and negotiate CBA’s with rigs.
Jazz pilots need new rigs because the flying is not going to change.
Probably doesn't help that they are running software that is decades old. Our IT department is so out of date it is bizarre. We have some of the most antiquated websites and support. Our vacation bidding site looks like something designed on a geocities website in the 90's by a grade 7 student in a computer science class.
rudder wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:59 pm
Bottom Jazz pilot moved up 497 spots during 2023 (that means attrition of 497 pilots due to resignation, retirement, termination, or death).
252 pilots remaining that were hired during 2023 (divided by 17 PIT classes means a net hiring/retention rate of 14.8 pilots per class).
255 less total pilots at Jazz year-end 2023 than at year-end 2022 (392 less pilots than year-end 2021. 495 less pilots than June 2021).
The numbers speak for themselves.
Equipment Bid (if necessary) will be published in 5 days.
Jazz pilot workforce is smaller than it was PRIOR TO the consolidation of both the GGN and SKV Express fleets and flying.
Current active pilots hovers in the vicinity of 1000 (plus or minus 50). More likely than not this will be the forecast number of positions if an equipment bid is run. Net annual hiring on the order of 250 (2023 result) will not keep up with anticipated 2024 attrition.
Throttling back AC flow just sends pilots elsewhere.
