So over at TransAt.......PAY ATTENTION!

[RippleRock]

Some may find it a BIT IRONIC that we need the Flight Attendants at Air Transat to teach us a lesson in labor relations and UNITY.


There is a strong indication that after a failed TA ratification, at 98% NO, Transat caved in to their FA's wishes. It makes NO SENSE to have a "solution" so quickly after a hugely solid NO vote. A new TA is on the table in less than a week.

Pilots here need to PAY ATTENTION.

This is a strong indication that airlines in Canada are waking up to the fact that airline wages and working conditions are changing rapidly on this continent, and they may have no stomach to fight it. TrasAt is BUSY, Air Canada is BUSY, and they likely don't want to jeopardize forward bookings with labor uncertainty.

The power of a 98% NO vote is MASSIVE. It's called UNITY.

FOLLOW the direction of your Union and you will be successful. I find the lack of RED LANYARDS on pilots at AC APPALLING. Half isn't good enough, three quarters isn't good enough!

Get your shit together and DO AS YOU ARE TOLD. You are being watched and judged. What comes across that table has a DIRECT corellation to how unified they think we are.

[Protonpilot]

Transat caved in to their FA's wishes. It makes NO SENSE to have a "solution" so quickly after a hugely solid NO vote. A new TA is on the table in less than a week.

I'll personally wait to see the details of their tentative deal before drawing any conclusions. I haven't seen any details yet.

[RippleRock]

Transat caved in to their FA's wishes. It makes NO SENSE to have a "solution" so quickly after a hugely solid NO vote. A new TA is on the table in less than a week.

I'll personally wait to see the details of their tentative deal before drawing any conclusions. I haven't seen any details yet.

Well. Nothing else makes much sense if you think about it, but I did qualify it as my opinion.

Why would they come back in a single week with a new agreement that they believe the group will accept, after they just "flipped the company off" with a 98% no vote??? There is no rocket surgery required to figure out that massive concessions had to be made in the FA's favor.

Pretty sure waiting for the outcome will be academic. Either that, or the Union will be complete toast.

[Canadaflyer46]

You’re right. Barely any red lanyards out there. There’s absolutely zero excuses, your MEC chair had asked you to all wear them. It doesn’t bode well for future unity during this process IMO. At WJ last year I was wearing my swag with pride walking through the terminal.

[billybgone345]

You’re right. Barely any red lanyards out there. There’s absolutely zero excuses, your MEC chair had asked you to all wear them. It doesn’t bode well for future unity during this process IMO. At WJ last year I was wearing my swag with pride walking through the terminal.

20% of the pilot group is on probation where the company said don't wear it and 20% is older pro ACPA guys. In addition the largest rally conducted in Toronto didn't have the red lanyards available. I wouldn't be judging the unity based on red lanyards I'd be judging it based on red/ALPA lanyards which is an extremely high amount.

[eyebrow737]

Get your shit together and DO AS YOU ARE TOLD. You are being watched and judged. What comes across that table has a DIRECT corellation to how unified they think we are.

Well you heard it here. Do what you are told. Don't question. Just obey.

[RippleRock]

You’re right. Barely any red lanyards out there. There’s absolutely zero excuses, your MEC chair had asked you to all wear them. It doesn’t bode well for future unity during this process IMO. At WJ last year I was wearing my swag with pride walking through the terminal.

20% of the pilot group is on probation where the company said don't wear it and 20% is older pro ACPA guys. In addition the largest rally conducted in Toronto didn't have the red lanyards available. I wouldn't be judging the unity based on red lanyards I'd be judging it based on red/ALPA lanyards which is an extremely high amount.

That memo against red lanyards has expired and the issue has been addressed by Charlene herself. Read your ALPA messages better. This isn't a "spectator event", it requires FULL engagement.

You are ALLOWED to wear it. FULL STOP Your union has said they are behind you 100%. Trust them, or don't bother expecting anything.

Enough excuses. Get one and put it on like you were told.



BTW......How about you Daniel Kaffee? I see you lurking. Let me guess what lanyard you're wearing.

[eyebrow737]

[
BTW......How about you Daniel Kaffee? I see you lurking. Let me guess what lanyard you're wearing.

Listen up, it's high time to cut the nonsense. You and your crew think you're running some kind of street gang, pushing around your own colleagues. That's not how we operate here. We're professionals, not thugs. Your bullying? It's a disgrace to the uniform, an insult to every real pilot flying with dignity.

You're bringing shame to our profession. Knock it off, start acting like the pilot you claim to be, or find yourself on the outside looking in. We don't tolerate bullies in our ranks.

[Army of one]

Listen up, it's high time to cut the nonsense. You and your crew think you're running some kind of street gang, pushing around your own colleagues. That's not how we operate here. We're professionals, not thugs. Your bullying? It's a disgrace to the uniform, an insult to every real pilot flying with dignity.

You're bringing shame to our profession. Knock it off, start acting like the pilot you claim to be, or find yourself on the outside looking in. We don't tolerate bullies in our ranks.

Huh? Yours is the weirdest post I think I’ve ever read.

Don’t speak for me.

The shame has been brought to our profession by many of the people you stand behind.

Once again, do not speak for me. You embarrass me.

[billybgone345]

You’re right. Barely any red lanyards out there. There’s absolutely zero excuses, your MEC chair had asked you to all wear them. It doesn’t bode well for future unity during this process IMO. At WJ last year I was wearing my swag with pride walking through the terminal.

20% of the pilot group is on probation where the company said don't wear it and 20% is older pro ACPA guys. In addition the largest rally conducted in Toronto didn't have the red lanyards available. I wouldn't be judging the unity based on red lanyards I'd be judging it based on red/ALPA lanyards which is an extremely high amount.

That memo against red lanyards has expired and the issue has been addressed by Charlene herself. Read your ALPA messages better. This isn't a "spectator event", it requires FULL engagement.

You are ALLOWED to wear it. FULL STOP Your union has said they are behind you 100%. Trust them, or don't bother expecting anything.

Enough excuses. Get one and put it on like you were told.



BTW......How about you Daniel Kaffee? I see you lurking. Let me guess what lanyard you're wearing.

What an interesting time we are in- wearing an ALPA lanyard is considered being a traiter and anti-union to some it seems.

Who is Daniel Kaffee? I am guessing it's an insult given the posts responding to yours.

[Handover]

The shame has been brought to our profession by many of the people you stand behind.
Once again, do not speak for me. You embarrass me.

I'd rather stand behind professionals than bullies who want to dictate what other people do. The state of this industry lies on many broad shoulders. Greedy management, and people who think a union is gang where you have to display your colors.

You and others in this thread who think that need to step up, accept partial responsibility for the state of aviation in canada, work together with your colleagues. instead of bullying them with threats. I can't imagine having you in my cockpit.

[Army of one]

I'd rather stand behind professionals that bullies who want to dictate what other people do.

Sounds to me as though you are in the right place.

People like you should have your own union.

[Handover]

I'd rather stand behind professionals that bullies who want to dictate what other people do.

Sounds to me as though you are in the right place.

People like you should have your own union.

so you are saying you prefer the bullying and threatening, and those that don't should have their own union where they can work together in a productive manner? gotcha

[cjp]

I'd rather stand behind professionals that bullies who want to dictate what other people do.

Sounds to me as though you are in the right place.

People like you should have your own union.

so you are saying you prefer the bullying and threatening, and those that don't should have their own union where they can work together in a productive manner? gotcha

I think "that" = "rather than"...?

[Army of one]

I'd rather stand behind professionals that bullies who want to dictate what other people do.

Sounds to me as though you are in the right place.

People like you should have your own union.

so you are saying you prefer the bullying and threatening, and those that don't should have their own union where they can work together in a productive manner? gotcha

First off; Relying on any common legal definition(s), there were no threats, nor bullying on this thread. As well, I did see a qualification, specifically regarding a stated "opinion". Opinions are welcome here, its a forum, a discussion. Check out the forum rules.

Related to your earlier condescending remark. Forums are not flight decks and CRM is not a prerequisite of forum participation. You can check out the Forum rules for that. Maybe in future try not conflate the two, it's irrelevant. Im not a life coach but perhaps if opinions other than yours upset your inner peace, maybe start your own forum/echo chamber, and restrict all participation to views you ascribe to, and approve. You can even be the only moderator. Think for a moment how cool that would be.

Another thing. RR is not telling you to wear your Lanyard, ALPA did, Charlene did. Charlene wrote you a memo. RR was just repeating it, he also pointed to that memo in a previous post.. Again, Grade 2 stuff. Actually, probably Grade 1.

Finally yes, I wish professionals who act and think like you would start your own Union and that I could stand with and akin to, the professionals at (such as) Delta, UPS, United, etc.

Carry on..

[RippleRock]

The shame has been brought to our profession by many of the people you stand behind.
Once again, do not speak for me. You embarrass me.

I'd rather stand behind professionals than bullies who want to dictate what other people do. The state of this industry lies on many broad shoulders. Greedy management, and people who think a union is gang where you have to display your colors.

You and others in this thread who think that need to step up, accept partial responsibility for the state of aviation in canada, work together with your colleagues. instead of bullying them with threats. I can't imagine having you in my cockpit.

PM me for a free helmet. This has nothing to do with bullying. I'm sorry if my post triggered your sensitive side.

For the record, if this were Delta or United, no one would be "threatened" or feel "bullied" by a poster "advising them" to simply do as their Union asks.



My post has everything to do with UNIONISM. Acting as a single cohesive unit to reach an objective. That requires WORK and it isn't a "spectator" event.

Listen closely to what your union asks of you. If they ask you to do something, do it. Red says your are ALPA and you will do what is required to attain a contract on par with our direct peers, while blue says ALPA is my union.......but whatever.

Management is watching closely. All you "blue" lanyard wearers, I really appreciate the "half effort" but you were asked to switch to red during negotiations to send a message of UNITY to those who are watching. I have 5 years +- left here, so I wont be as affected as those with 20 or 30 years to go, but as a member of the demographic responsible for our crap contract, I feel obligated to assist you in improving your working conditions and pay so you can improve your life. Unfortunately it's been like trying to herd cats.

Anyway, red or blue make your choice, it's a free country, but remember that that choice has consequences. Mixed colors sends a message of conflicting unity. A group divided is a group defeated. Figure out your own path.


FWIW......For the record, Kaffee is a big boy and can take it just fine. He's a former MEC rep / ACPA sympathizer and I expect nothing from him or his kind moving forward. They are directly responsible for our current WACON abomination. They need to be held accountable so nothing like their tenure happens again.

[Army of one]

A lot of talk about professional pilots here.

These are the professionals pilots - with professional pilot actions - I want to be associated with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXSBdFbgHLQ

Fully AC-ALPA Endorsed. Period.

Edited to correct "ALPA".

[Army of one]

Im guessing that ends the discussion regarding Professional Pilots.

[eyebrow737]

First off; Relying on any common legal definition(s), there were no threats, nor bullying on this thread. As well, I did see a qualification, specifically regarding a stated "opinion". Opinions are welcome here, its a forum, a discussion. Check out the forum rules.

DO AS YOU ARE TOLD.

You are being watched

[DanWEC]

That previous post HAS to be sacasm.

[RippleRock]

You’re right. Barely any red lanyards out there. There’s absolutely zero excuses, your MEC chair had asked you to all wear them. It doesn’t bode well for future unity during this process IMO. At WJ last year I was wearing my swag with pride walking through the terminal.

20% of the pilot group is on probation where the company said don't wear it and 20% is older pro ACPA guys. In addition the largest rally conducted in Toronto didn't have the red lanyards available. I wouldn't be judging the unity based on red lanyards I'd be judging it based on red/ALPA lanyards which is an extremely high amount.

Not to pick on anyone in particular, as some of you are quite sensitive and a bit fragile, but.....

The top 20% (that's me) owe you younger folks the most. We were the custodians of the POS contract you now live under. We top 20% "tended and maintained the campsite" if you will allow the analogy. We left the place a mess, we chopped up and incinerated the picnic table and cut all the trees down and burned them, then left garbage and crap everywhere.....now for some reason we top 20% --who actually made the mess-- are being "excused" from supporting "the campsite cleanup" by not having to wear a red lanyard??? That's appalling. EVERY senior pilot should be 1000% behind you guys, not given a "hall pass" on the effort to right the wrongs the top 20% caused.

The bottom 20% have an equally poor excuse. They have absolutely the most to gain from others efforts, but they can't seem to find the courage to wear red. Why should the rest of us bother trying to abolish 4 years flat pay when they won't support unity within the group and "stand up" when directly asked to?

The bottom line is you are ALLOWED to wear them. The union is behind everyone 100%. No excuses, especially weak ones.

If wearing a red lanyard is considered a "big ask", and you WERE asked, God help us come time to actually strike.



FWIW....It's time for all of us to stand up together and SHOW IT.....or we can all collectively SIT BACK DOWN and wait for the train to run us over, because it WILL.

[336pointview]

or we can all collectively SIT BACK DOWN and wait for the train to run us over, because it WILL.

The train has already run over you. This is the worst airline in North America, the lowest paid, and frankly, every time I fly, it has one of the most miserable service in the world.

Your airline is a government-protected dumpster fire. It's about time a real airline stepped up to become Canada's most prestigious. The rest of Canadian aviation can only wish.

[altiplano]

Everyone has had enough time now...

Going forward no pilot will ride my jump:

- without a red WCC lanyard on their raic
- blue lanyard doesn't cut it until we ratify
- if upon looking at reportlink I see suspicious activity
- that they have VO in the last number of months
- slid days on RSV
- extended UOC

If you're not with us, you're against us.

No buying beers and coffees and covering tips for FOs without a WCC lanyard either. You stand to gain the most!

I'm looking at all of us. Get with the program, unity on display is what gets this done. If you aren't doing your part you are the reason we are going to strike. You hurt yourself, your colleagues, your airline, every day you aren't with it.

[eyebrow737]

If you're not with us, you're against us.

George Bush has entered the chat

[Mac08]

Everyone has had enough time now...

Going forward no pilot will ride my jump:

- without a red WCC lanyard on their raic
- blue lanyard doesn't cut it until we ratify
- if upon looking at reportlink I see suspicious activity
- that they have VO in the last number of months
- slid days on RSV
- extended UOC

If you're not with us, you're against us.

No buying beers and coffees and covering tips for FOs without a WCC lanyard either. You stand to gain the most!

I'm looking at all of us. Get with the program, unity on display is what gets this done. If you aren't doing your part you are the reason we are going to strike. You hurt yourself, your colleagues, your airline, every day you aren't with it.

The Top Poster has spoken! Glad you to see you only work minimum hours so FOs don't have to fly with you that much. Working with you sounds like working with a dictator. Besides how are you going to keep that keyboard warrior, sorry, top poster badge while working like a normal person.

I wear my red lanyard, but I might just start doing VO whenever I can so I can watch you seethe.