Stop the unfair UP Express price hike for Employees

[arezania]

Let me know when you answer the question in my first post.

Why special treatment should be justified for one group?

Hmmm… let me see.
I have family abroad who served in the military… they get some discounts at their local stores
My girlfriend used to work at starbucks and police officers got a discount on drinks/free too
Doctors get discounts at some health and fitness centers
Nurses get discounts at lululemon
Instagram influencers get discounts at Jack Astors
Heck, a lot of airports give discounts on food/duty free to pilots, FAs even if they don’t work at that airport. Next time you are offered a discount at a subway in ORD, I am sure you will decline, as you don’t deserve special treatment right?

It’s not about who deserves what. It’s about respecting people who put in work to make things go round. These tiny minute discounts don’t affect you or your taxes.

Instead you should redirect your anger to people who blatantly take advantage of the system.

Cheers mate

Hey man..... in yer preamble ya forgot yours truly, all 74 yrs of me. I get discounts all over the place, now whether I am worth it or deserve shall let y'all hash that out.

Old fella! Very rude of me to not include you, but your youth is showing so I didn’t notice

But yes. Students, seniors are groups of people who get discounts at public places too. As they should. No one should ever argue that!

[arezania]

I agree with rookie. End of the day, the service has an operating budget. If the people who ride it don’t pay for it, this means someone else picks up the tab. These transit systems are already overly subsidized and expensed on those who don’t even use them.

My question would be what right do you have to my labour? Why should I pay more taxes to fund your commute to work? If you can answer these questions maybe more people would sign. Maybe it’s time to look at other options and ditch UP. I think they wanted UP to be more of a premium passenger link than an employee shuttle anyway. If ridership is increasing this is probably just to push employees out slowly for the long term. Employee discount might just disappear completely in the future.

Hey justacanadian thanks for your reply,


I really don’t think YYZ commuters are really taking from your labour. I don’t think it costs you any difference in tax, whether we ride for 3.50 or $7.41. It has never once felt like an employee shuttle, most of the time there are a plethora of seats available. This is also a service for anyone who has a YYZ RAIC.

I would think there are definitely bigger and more concerning things your tax money is going to “waste” for

TTC is also has one of the most expensive transit fares in the world. So no, I absolutely do not think it’s overly subsidized. Transit should be subsidized over electric cars and such.

If your idea means that income taxes will fund the difference, then it’s a fact that you think you have a right to my labour. And the more money I make the higher percentage of my labour will be taken.

Take all the handouts you can get, just don’t expect everyone to be on board with being a slave to our governments spending.

Everything is paid for and nothing is free. So tell us who should pay, so that you can get a discount?

My friend, we are on the same side here. I am not the problem, YYZ commuters are not the problem. I promise you it’s not us taking half your salary! Redirect your frustrations to the actual problems at hand!

You aren’t the only person who works and gets taxed. Don’t forget that. As a fellow Canadian, I have also paid into the system, my parents have, my children will.

[rookiepilot]

Students, seniors are groups of people who get discounts at public places too. As they should. No one should ever argue that!

Again, Why? I’d argue it.

Seniors are the richest demographic out there. By far. Look it up. Not always, but in aggregate, massively.

Students, I agree.

Ps:

I noticed you haven’t answered my original question. Why your special interest group?

If you can answer it, satisfactorily, maybe you’ll win with Metrolinx.

Stop listening to this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VgNEsWx9pI&t=4s

[arezania]

My $.02.

We can’t afford carveouts. Anywhere. The system is broke, from transit agencies to cities.

I am an advocate for (modest) user fees across the board for public services. To see a doctor, for an ER visit, and parking. For road usage, including by EV’s. Parking is stupidly underpriced in most places.

Things cost money. Users need to pay.

The TTC, at 3 bucks, covers an enormous area. In inflation adjusted terms, its stupid cheap for an Ok system.

I find the folks that most loudly complain about the reliability also complain about the fares.

Its math. Stuff costs money. And we have less and less taxpayers for every retiree, too.

Strap in. Big changes will be forced upon all of us down the road. (Looking at you, retired people).

Cool.

Your 0.02 won’t get you much these days. You might wanna make that your 20 cents.

[arezania]

Students, seniors are groups of people who get discounts at public places too. As they should. No one should ever argue that!

Again, Why? I’d argue it.

Seniors are the richest demographic out there. By far. Look it up. Not always, but in aggregate, massively.

Students, I agree.

Ps:

I noticed you haven’t answered my original question. Why your special interest group?

If you can answer it, satisfactorily, maybe you’ll win with Metrolinx.

I have answered your question, I can’t help it if you refuse to take my answer.

Take care Rookie,

[JustaCanadian]

Two pilots go to Denny’s for breakfast. Captain boomer and First officer millennial. Denny’s believes in diversity, equity and inclusion and has a senior’s discount for 60 plus.

Captain owns 3 properties that all doubled in value the last 4 years. Owns a boat, a cottage, toys you name it. 10 years ago he was in support of a contract to pay new hires reduced wages, so he can keep his DB pension.

His breakfast is half off because we need to make things fair!

Now shall I tell you about his FO who’s on flat pay and was laid off two years over Covid? @#$! that guy… charge him full price! Probably owns a mansion and a lambo.

To everyone who thinks you need interventions to make things fair. Huh

[Old fella]

Hmmm… let me see.
I have family abroad who served in the military… they get some discounts at their local stores
My girlfriend used to work at starbucks and police officers got a discount on drinks/free too
Doctors get discounts at some health and fitness centers
Nurses get discounts at lululemon
Instagram influencers get discounts at Jack Astors
Heck, a lot of airports give discounts on food/duty free to pilots, FAs even if they don’t work at that airport. Next time you are offered a discount at a subway in ORD, I am sure you will decline, as you don’t deserve special treatment right?

It’s not about who deserves what. It’s about respecting people who put in work to make things go round. These tiny minute discounts don’t affect you or your taxes.

Instead you should redirect your anger to people who blatantly take advantage of the system.

Cheers mate

Hey man..... in yer preamble ya forgot yours truly, all 74 yrs of me. I get discounts all over the place, now whether I am worth it or deserve shall let y'all hash that out.

Old fella! Very rude of me to not include you, but your youth is showing so I didn’t notice

But yes. Students, seniors are groups of people who get discounts at public places too. As they should. No one should ever argue that!

“Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now. “

[N181CS]

$7 is almost the presto fare of 9…. From 25c more then the the TTC to the price of 2 rides…. Time to start only paying one way….

As for discounts, Via rail gives forces members 25% off, that’s a crown corp. you can fish with no license in Ontario if you served. You can also go to federal national parks with no fee. Not just private companies who give discounts to so called “special groups”.

[rookiepilot]

$7 is almost the presto fare of 9…. From 25c more then the the TTC to the price of 2 rides…. Time to start only paying one way….

As for discounts, Via rail gives forces members 25% off, that’s a crown corp. you can fish with no license in Ontario if you served. You can also go to federal national parks with no fee. Not just private companies who give discounts to so called “special groups”.

You seriously think commercial pilots are comparable to those who serve in the military?

You’re performing some form of public service?

Try that line out in the court of public opinion. LOL.

[N181CS]

Rookie of you served in the CF you would know it’s just a job. Being a pilot is significantly more dangerous then being in the CF today. There is nothing special about joining the CF especially as 031 pte bloggins.

[rookiepilot]

Rookie of you served in the CF you would know it’s just a job. Being a pilot is significantly more dangerous then being in the CF today. There is nothing special about joining the CF especially as 031 pte bloggins.

I see. This quote will age well.

Remind me to shake your hand and thank you for your sacrifice next time I see you in T1.

[JHR]

Rookie of you served in the CF you would know it’s just a job. Being a pilot is significantly more dangerous then being in the CF today. There is nothing special about joining the CF especially as 031 pte bloggins.

Wow. Probably the type of person who doesn't wear a poppy cause it pokes a pinhole in your expensive Columbia jacket

[N181CS]

Thank me for my service, ok I will accept that. You all think I’m so special for being in the CF…. I sure do enjoy my 25% off on VIA and my free checked bag on most airlines. I’m not special for serving, we are just regular folk doing a job. Why people hold this WW2 image of soldiers is beyond me. It’s not that way anymore…

[throwawaycorporate]

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ. The Skytrain in Vancouver is $104 (and includes the rest of the city's transit, but that's another matter).

To me there should be no discount for employees buying single fares.

At these new rates, taking the train twice daily for your average M-F worker is over $300/month. At this point, it makes better sense in many ways to drive, take less efficient transit, risk evading the fare entirely, or seek employment elsewhere. IE - ridership goes down. Next financial review, train loses money again and the solution? Raise the rates on employees 110% to break even. Tickets for employees now $14 one way.

Cycle continues.

[rookiepilot]

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ.

Only Airport employees, and not the guy commuting on the TTC to his Tim Horton's job in a strip mall?

Again -- Why?

[throwawaycorporate]

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ.

Only Airport employees, and not the guy commuting on the TTC to his Tim Horton's job in a strip mall?

Again -- Why?

My take on public transit is that you want to maximize ridership capacity to 100%. At this point, it's already built and the fixed costs now are largely the same.

The guy commuting on the TTC to Tim Hortons pays $156/month. If they worked at the Tim Hortons at the airport they now also need to pay an extra $320/month, which together approaches $500/month. If I was in their position, I'd seek employment elsewhere, or alternative transportation.

So how I see it, the UP actually ends up losing ridership and money with this price increase overall.

[rookiepilot]

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ.

Only Airport employees, and not the guy commuting on the TTC to his Tim Horton's job in a strip mall?

Again -- Why?

My take on public transit is that you want to maximize ridership capacity to 100%. At this point, it's already built and the fixed costs now are largely the same.

The guy commuting on the TTC to Tim Hortons pays $156/month. If they worked at the Tim Hortons at the airport they now also need to pay an extra $320/month, which together approaches $500/month. If I was in their position, I'd seek employment elsewhere, or alternative transportation.

So how I see it, the UP actually ends up losing ridership and money with this price increase overall.

They can take TTC to the airport.

Same rationale for the 407. Its outrageous, but I save a ton of time using it.

Time or money. Cant expect both.

IF UP was the only public transit option I would agree with this thread and your post.

When I travel to YVR, often, I can take Uber to where I stay, but Its 40 bucks. I can take Skytrain for 8 bucks with the surcharge, takes longer. Premium for minimal cost isn't a right.

[digits_]

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ.

Only Airport employees, and not the guy commuting on the TTC to his Tim Horton's job in a strip mall?

Again -- Why?

Everything touching an airport has inflated prices for ... well ... often no good reason. It's not uncommon that employees get discounts on services closely related to their place of work.

Mall employees might get discounts in other stores in the mall, aircrew gets discounted travel, grocery store employees get small discounts on their groceries, etc. It's not that farfetched to ask for discounted travel.

[throwawaycorporate]

Only Airport employees, and not the guy commuting on the TTC to his Tim Horton's job in a strip mall?

Again -- Why?

My take on public transit is that you want to maximize ridership capacity to 100%. At this point, it's already built and the fixed costs now are largely the same.

The guy commuting on the TTC to Tim Hortons pays $156/month. If they worked at the Tim Hortons at the airport they now also need to pay an extra $320/month, which together approaches $500/month. If I was in their position, I'd seek employment elsewhere, or alternative transportation.

So how I see it, the UP actually ends up losing ridership and money with this price increase overall.

They can take TTC to the airport.

Same rationale for the 407. Its outrageous, but I save a ton of time using it.

Time or money. Cant expect both.

IF UP was the only public transit option I would agree with this thread and your post.

When I travel to YVR, often, I can take Uber to where I stay, but Its 40 bucks. I can take Skytrain for 8 bucks with the surcharge, takes longer. Premium for minimal cost isn't a right.

As far as I know the UP is ultimately funded publicly in the same way that a library is, while the 407 is owned privately. The distinction being if the library or UP loses money, the government picks up the tab.

I understand your line of thinking, but I think your argument against it would have held more weight pre-development.

Now that the UP train has been built, the fixed liability remain the same to the tax payer. If this new pricing model reduces revenue, not only will this ultimately cost us all collectively more, but the staffing levels at the airports will be reduced, and there's a chance that the 401 will be even more congested than it already is.

[rookiepilot]

My take on public transit is that you want to maximize ridership capacity to 100%. At this point, it's already built and the fixed costs now are largely the same.

The guy commuting on the TTC to Tim Hortons pays $156/month. If they worked at the Tim Hortons at the airport they now also need to pay an extra $320/month, which together approaches $500/month. If I was in their position, I'd seek employment elsewhere, or alternative transportation.

So how I see it, the UP actually ends up losing ridership and money with this price increase overall.

They can take TTC to the airport.

Same rationale for the 407. Its outrageous, but I save a ton of time using it.

Time or money. Cant expect both.

IF UP was the only public transit option I would agree with this thread and your post.

When I travel to YVR, often, I can take Uber to where I stay, but Its 40 bucks. I can take Skytrain for 8 bucks with the surcharge, takes longer. Premium for minimal cost isn't a right.

As far as I know the UP is ultimately funded publicly in the same way that a library is, while the 407 is owned privately. The distinction being if the library or UP loses money, the government picks up the tab.

I understand your line of thinking, but I think your argument against it would have held more weight pre-development.

Now that the UP train has been built, the fixed liability remain the same to the tax payer. If this new pricing model reduces revenue, not only will this ultimately cost us all collectively more, but the staffing levels at the airports will be reduced, and there's a chance that the 401 will be even more congested than it already is.

I suspect the folks who run metrolinx, who know more about these things than you or I, have carefully calculated this. I’ll leave that to them. Its still dirt cheap in my eyes, but everyone has a view, fair enough

[arezania]

They can take TTC to the airport.

Same rationale for the 407. Its outrageous, but I save a ton of time using it.

Time or money. Cant expect both.

IF UP was the only public transit option I would agree with this thread and your post.

When I travel to YVR, often, I can take Uber to where I stay, but Its 40 bucks. I can take Skytrain for 8 bucks with the surcharge, takes longer. Premium for minimal cost isn't a right.

As far as I know the UP is ultimately funded publicly in the same way that a library is, while the 407 is owned privately. The distinction being if the library or UP loses money, the government picks up the tab.

I understand your line of thinking, but I think your argument against it would have held more weight pre-development.

Now that the UP train has been built, the fixed liability remain the same to the tax payer. If this new pricing model reduces revenue, not only will this ultimately cost us all collectively more, but the staffing levels at the airports will be reduced, and there's a chance that the 401 will be even more congested than it already is.

I suspect the folks who run metrolinx, who know more about these things than you or I, have carefully calculated this. I’ll leave that to them. Its still dirt cheap in my eyes, but everyone has a view, fair enough

Dirt cheap for you maybe, but not for people next to you. I don’t understand why you are so against the little guy here, trying to get to work safely, reliably at an affordable price.

Everything has gotten so expensive for everyone and daily I can see people struggling more and more. I figured a petition to help people keep an affordable method to get to work would make most happy, if that comes with the expense of you being upset about it so be it. Cant have a petition without someone challenging it

[throwawaycorporate]

Dirt cheap for you maybe, but not for people next to you. I don’t understand why you are so against the little guy here, trying to get to work safely, reliably at an affordable price.

Everything has gotten so expensive for everyone and daily I can see people struggling more and more. I figured a petition to help people keep an affordable method to get to work would make most happy, if that comes with the expense of you being upset about it so be it. Cant have a petition without someone challenging it

I think rather than petitioning to back to the old discounted rate, a monthly solution should be presented as a better futureproof solution. Flight crew using the train 4 round trips a month don't need the discount as much as the employees commuting every day do

[rookiepilot]

I see I have been played. Well done.

Later.

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/airpo ... mployee-go

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/airpo ... to-pearson

[olivierw]

Alright,

This is a complete waste of my time but if it keeps this topic at the top, it'll get more views for the petition so what the heck.

As someone who's advocated for cheaper public transit for airport employees for years. Who's actually taken those fights out of this dumb forum and to city councils and actually managed to get the massive ship with a small rudder and blind captain that is Calgary Transit to change course, I'd like to chime in on a few things. So here goes:

Would be nice if this could be done in YVR, $5 surcharge

That is already a thing. The 5$ add fare is waived for those that have any of the following:
-A RAIC
- Company proximity/access card
- ID card
-Employee card
-Business card or current pay stub with a Sea Island address.

This was used in my case study when we fought the 11$ Calgary Transit "airport boarding pass".

I suspect the folks who run metrolinx, who know more about these things than you or I, have carefully calculated this. I’ll leave that to them. Its still dirt cheap in my eyes, but everyone has a view, fair enough

Maybe, maybe not. To be fair when I fought this with Calgary Transit and the Calgary City council half the people involved had no idea that there was even such a thing as a surcharge for the airport employees. When they looked into it, they found that waiving the cost of the surcharge for employees should have very little impact on the budget. It has only been a few months since the fee has been waived in YYC but I'm still in touch with the guy who did the cost analysis and it turns out there's been almost no difference so far. My guess is that employees had found ways to circumvent paying the surcharge anyway. There were ways, you just had to know them.

Metrolinx has a reputation of being an extremely poorly managed company. I would love to see what kind of market research they've done on this. Keep in mind this is a service that went from costing $29 to $12. In the same time it went from $3.5 for employees to 40% of the full fare to now $7. In my opinion there's very little logic and research behind the employee pricing. prove me wrong.

Lastly, dirt cheap in your eyes sure. But not dirt cheap in the eyes of the flight attendant that makes minimum wage. Or the first year AC FO, or the new apprentice AME who's been working all night and is taking the 6am train home.

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ.

Only Airport employees, and not the guy commuting on the TTC to his Tim Horton's job in a strip mall?

Again -- Why?

Why would you expect the Tim Horton worker to pay a normal fare of 3.30$ to get to work but the Tim Horton worker at the airport to pay a tourist fare of 12$ to get to work?

Anyone with a minimum of two brain cells should be able to see that doesn't make sense. And that's because strip malls are a part of the city they cater to citizens of the city while airports cater to tourists who don't live and work and pay taxes in the city and therefore get charged a surcharge to benefit from using the city service. Making people pay extra to go on a trip is beneficial to the economy. Making people pay extra to get to work is detrimental to the economy.

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ. The Skytrain in Vancouver is $104 (and includes the rest of the city's transit, but that's another matter).

To me there should be no discount for employees buying single fares.

At these new rates, taking the train twice daily for your average M-F worker is over $300/month. At this point, it makes better sense in many ways to drive, take less efficient transit, risk evading the fare entirely, or seek employment elsewhere. IE - ridership goes down. Next financial review, train loses money again and the solution? Raise the rates on employees 110% to break even. Tickets for employees now $14 one way.

Cycle continues.

This could seem like a good solution but here is why it isn't:

The monthly pass works great for the guy who works 9-5 5 days a week. It doesn't work that well for air crews, part time workers, shift workers (who sometimes have to start or end work outside of the UP express hours). As it turns out that's a large percentage of the employees you'll find around the airport. These people might not use the service enough to justify a monthly pass.

But you still want them to have access to cheap/efficient public transit options. They'll take it when it's convenient. Other times they might drive, or get a cab, or get dropped off by their spouse if they live in single car households, or take a GO bus or the TTC depending on where they're going. For someone who has to take the subway to union then the UP you're looking at over 10$/trip. At those prices people will decide to take the car 10/10 times even if it would have been convenient to take transit.



Now just a few more bullet points for the road because everyone loves bullet points:

• Lots of people on this thread are hating on the Liberal/NDP voters. But in fact it's the Conservative provincial and federal party that played the biggest part in getting rid of the surcharge in Calgary. That's because making people pay extra just to get to work because they don't own a car isn't conservative, it's just stupid and the Conservative politicians know that. You can support common sense regardless of who you vote for.

• Your taxes fund public transit services. Your taxes don't fund the employees discounts. Employee discounts are such an insignificant fraction of the lost revenue. There was an entire case study on this with Calgary Transit.

• As a driver paying taxes for public transit services that you don't use sucks. As a transit user paying taxes for roads that you don't drive on sucks too. Stop bitching about it and accept both are equally essential.

• Parking at YYZ for the purpose of going to work is heavily discounted and/or paid for by the airline you work for. Why would the guy who takes the train to work pay a premium when the guy who takes the car to work gets a discount?

• Affordable public transit is arguably the biggest boost for economic opportunity, and it encourages GDP growth. It's good for the environment. And best of all, you don't even have to use it in order to benefit from it. That's because even if you don't use it, I will use it along with millions of other people. It takes myself and all of those people off your road on your morning commute. Which means you're less likely to be involved in a collision, less likely to be stuck in traffic, spend less time looking for a spot at the parking lot, you'll be breathing less exhaust gas, you'll live longer, have a higher sex drive, and be happier (am I selling you on it yet?), all that without ever setting a foot on public transit. You would be a masochist not to want this. I'm a maniac behind the wheel you don't want me on the road, keep the incentives for me not to drive to work, it will be better for everyone.

• I highly suggest you guys listen to this 1 hour long podcast. If you're not just a keyboard warrior and you're genuinely interested in understanding why you should be supporting this petition, you'll get a lot of answers here.
  https://freakonomics.com/podcast/should ... ee-update/

[arezania]

Alright,

This is a complete waste of my time but if it keeps this topic at the top, it'll get more views for the petition so what the heck.

As someone who's advocated for cheaper public transit for airport employees for years. Who's actually taken those fights out of this dumb forum and to city councils and actually managed to get the massive ship with a small rudder and blind captain that is Calgary Transit to change course, I'd like to chime in on a few things. So here goes:

Would be nice if this could be done in YVR, $5 surcharge

That is already a thing. The 5$ add fare is waived for those that have any of the following:
-A RAIC
- Company proximity/access card
- ID card
-Employee card
-Business card or current pay stub with a Sea Island address.

This was used in my case study when we fought the 11$ Calgary Transit "airport boarding pass".

I suspect the folks who run metrolinx, who know more about these things than you or I, have carefully calculated this. I’ll leave that to them. Its still dirt cheap in my eyes, but everyone has a view, fair enough

Maybe, maybe not. To be fair when I fought this with Calgary Transit and the Calgary City council half the people involved had no idea that there was even such a thing as a surcharge for the airport employees. When they looked into it, they found that waiving the cost of the surcharge for employees should have very little impact on the budget. It has only been a few months since the fee has been waived in YYC but I'm still in touch with the guy who did the cost analysis and it turns out there's been almost no difference so far. My guess is that employees had found ways to circumvent paying the surcharge anyway. There were ways, you just had to know them.

Metrolinx has a reputation of being an extremely poorly managed company. I would love to see what kind of market research they've done on this. Keep in mind this is a service that went from costing $29 to $12. In the same time it went from $3.5 for employees to 40% of the full fare to now $7. In my opinion there's very little logic and research behind the employee pricing. prove me wrong.

Lastly, dirt cheap in your eyes sure. But not dirt cheap in the eyes of the flight attendant that makes minimum wage. Or the first year AC FO, or the new apprentice AME who's been working all night and is taking the 6am train home.

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ.

Only Airport employees, and not the guy commuting on the TTC to his Tim Horton's job in a strip mall?

Again -- Why?

Why would you expect the Tim Horton worker to pay a normal fare of 3.30$ to get to work but the Tim Horton worker at the airport to pay a tourist fare of 12$ to get to work?

Anyone with a minimum of two brain cells should be able to see that doesn't make sense. And that's because strip malls are a part of the city they cater to citizens of the city while airports cater to tourists who don't live and work and pay taxes in the city and therefore get charged a surcharge to benefit from using the city service. Making people pay extra to go on a trip is beneficial to the economy. Making people pay extra to get to work is detrimental to the economy.

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ. The Skytrain in Vancouver is $104 (and includes the rest of the city's transit, but that's another matter).

To me there should be no discount for employees buying single fares.

At these new rates, taking the train twice daily for your average M-F worker is over $300/month. At this point, it makes better sense in many ways to drive, take less efficient transit, risk evading the fare entirely, or seek employment elsewhere. IE - ridership goes down. Next financial review, train loses money again and the solution? Raise the rates on employees 110% to break even. Tickets for employees now $14 one way.

Cycle continues.

This could seem like a good solution but here is why it isn't:

The monthly pass works great for the guy who works 9-5 5 days a week. It doesn't work that well for air crews, part time workers, shift workers (who sometimes have to start or end work outside of the UP express hours). As it turns out that's a large percentage of the employees you'll find around the airport. These people might not use the service enough to justify a monthly pass.

But you still want them to have access to cheap/efficient public transit options. They'll take it when it's convenient. Other times they might drive, or get a cab, or get dropped off by their spouse if they live in single car households, or take a GO bus or the TTC depending on where they're going. For someone who has to take the subway to union then the UP you're looking at over 10$/trip. At those prices people will decide to take the car 10/10 times even if it would have been convenient to take transit.



Now just a few more bullet points for the road because everyone loves bullet points:

• Lots of people on this thread are hating on the Liberal/NDP voters. But in fact it's the Conservative provincial and federal party that played the biggest part in getting rid of the surcharge in Calgary. That's because making people pay extra just to get to work because they don't own a car isn't conservative, it's just stupid and the Conservative politicians know that. You can support common sense regardless of who you vote for.

• Your taxes fund public transit services. Your taxes don't fund the employees discounts. Employee discounts are such an insignificant fraction of the lost revenue. There was an entire case study on this with Calgary Transit.

• As a driver paying taxes for public transit services that you don't use sucks. As a transit user paying taxes for roads that you don't drive on sucks too. Stop bitching about it and accept both are equally essential.

• Parking at YYZ for the purpose of going to work is heavily discounted and/or paid for by the airline you work for. Why would the guy who takes the train to work pay a premium when the guy who takes the car to work gets a discount?

• Affordable public transit is arguably the biggest boost for economic opportunity, and it encourages GDP growth. It's good for the environment. And best of all, you don't even have to use it in order to benefit from it. That's because even if you don't use it, I will use it along with millions of other people. It takes myself and all of those people off your road on your morning commute. Which means you're less likely to be involved in a collision, less likely to be stuck in traffic, spend less time looking for a spot at the parking lot, you'll be breathing less exhaust gas, you'll live longer, have a higher sex drive, and be happier (am I selling you on it yet?), all that without ever setting a foot on public transit. You would be a masochist not to want this. I'm a maniac behind the wheel you don't want me on the road, keep the incentives for me not to drive to work, it will be better for everyone.

• I highly suggest you guys listen to this 1 hour long podcast. If you're not just a keyboard warrior and you're genuinely interested in understanding why you should be supporting this petition, you'll get a lot of answers here.
  https://freakonomics.com/podcast/should ... ee-update/

Hi Olivierw,

Thank you very much for explaining it so amazingly! I can appreciate it. I am looking into the next steps now as the petition has garnered about 1000 signatures in less than two days.