Jazz pilots interviewing at mainline

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:25 am

Does anyone know where they are on the Jazz senority list for mainline interviews?
Thanks

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:10 pm

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:58 pm

Thanks Bede....pretty sad pace.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:25 pm

Pretty sad in that for only 5 months of interviewing, fully 1100 Jazz pilots have had right of first refusal for an interview? Ya that sucks.........

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:28 pm

I heard that a lot of senior guys won't go over because of the seniority and paycut. From what I heard, you have to be less than 38 years old to come out ahead. Above that, it's too much of a cut in the long term.

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:51 pm

Dockjock, only about 245 Jazz pilots applied to Mainline, most of whom are likely in the bottom 200 which means that in 5 months of interviewing less than 150 have had a shot a mainline. Considering that we all took paycuts and quite a few were laid off (myself included) to keep the company afloat, it is a pretty sad pace.

nix · Post by **nix** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:40 pm

If you're at Jazz and you are interested in mainline how do you apply? Do you just fill out the on-line application or is there list somewhere?

Captn Flex · Post by **Captn Flex** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:42 pm

[quote]Considering that we all took paycuts and quite a few were laid off (myself included) to keep the company afloat, it is a pretty sad pace.[quote]

We all took pay cuts to save our own jobs either at AC or Jazz.

Captn Flex · Post by **Captn Flex** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:59 pm

If you poll Jazz pilots on how much they are the willing to give up to save the mainline pilots job you will most likely get the same results as polling the mainline pilots to how much they are willing to give up to save the Jazz pilots jobs.

Sad reality

Captn Flex · Post by **Captn Flex** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:00 pm

If you poll Jazz pilots on how much they are the willing to give up to save the mainline pilots job you will most likely get the same results as polling the mainline pilots to how much they are willing to give up to save the Jazz pilots jobs.

Sad reality

Gurundu the Rat · Post by **Gurundu the Rat** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:56 am

Well, considering Jazz is not a money loser and that we were dragged into CCAA by mainline... I think giving up pay to save AC should have its kickbacks now that things are better at AC. Now lets all remember the argument AC pilots gave to hire off the street instead of at Jazz. "Why would the company train a Jazz guy and then another one to replace him if they can only get one new hire off the street instead" Well here we are 6 months later. We have new hire EMB FOs who may be bidding A320. You will be upgrading people who have given 6 months on type vs Jazz pilots who have given the company 6+ years of profitable service. Is it really cheaper to hire OTS? I can see this turning into a big fiasco with management thinking hummmm, maybe if we sent those to Jazz those senior guys will finish their career on it instead of this plane being a launching pad for getting out of pay group (2 years). AC would have most probably made more money with a GS (Jazz BOTL) giving Jazz pilots direct access onto the A320 ahead of newhires. To me that would have made sense and at the same time you kill the arguement that Jazz can operate the EMB cheaper. I can't wait to see how the current and outdated, overcomplicated contract proves once more that mainline is a model of inefficientcy. Fire away!

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:36 am

Do you think that when things settle down a bit at Jazz that mainline will go back to hiring 40% for each GS from Jazz?

Cheers.

neophyte · Post by **neophyte** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:16 pm

Grundu,

I don't have the dates straight in my head but....

I was always under the impression that the "Jazz" label came about after 911 and within a year of mainlines filing for bankruptcy.

Regardless, if you want to call yourself Air Canada Jazz (and fight for common seniority, and flow through, etc), then I would say you can't distinguish yourself in terms of profitability. I feel it is a case of having your cake and eating it to.

Perhaps someone can educate me on this?

PS, I am sure Jazz would be just as profitable if it had no association with Air Canada, but the fact remains that you are one the same, for now.

Gurundu the Rat · Post by **Gurundu the Rat** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:59 pm

I was always under the impression that the "Jazz" label came about after 911 and within a year of mainlines filing for bankruptcy.

Yes, It was known as Air Canada Regional (ACR) at the time. We started losing money for a short time when ACPA filed a greivance about scope clause the day Canadian Regional became part of ACR. We subsequently had to park 29 F-28s and pay guys to stay at home for up to 8 months. I don't know about the others before that but Air Nova was in business to make money.

Lost in Saigon · Post by **Lost in Saigon** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:12 pm

I don't think Jazz parked the F28's because of the scope clause.

ACPA filed a greivance and won a cash payout for their pilots. The F28's continued flying long after that.

I think they were parked for economic reasons. While they were cheap to buy or lease, they were expensive on fuel and probably maintainance as well.

Gurundu the Rat · Post by **Gurundu the Rat** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:52 pm

I think they were parked for economic reasons. While they were cheap to buy or lease, they were expensive on fuel and probably maintainance as well.

Yes if memory serves me well the routes were replaced by equally expensive on fuel and maintenance 737s operated by ACzip.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:25 pm

Gurundu.
"Well, considering Jazz is not a money loser and that we were dragged into CCAA by mainline... I think giving up pay to save AC should have its kickbacks now that things are better at AC".

Kickbacks for Jazz pilots at mainline:
A) you are hired not only because of your experience but because you are in the ACE family.
B) you are given better seniority than others because you are in the ACE family
C) this means better equipment
D) better pay
E) better lifestyle.

Now quit your f*ckin' whinin' you little dipsh*t.

bobcaygeon · Post by **bobcaygeon** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:33 pm

Hey Tony your show was cancelled!!!

Better seniority my ars!! Same start date as everyone else on their course!!! Same with pass travel except no 6 month waiting period (the 6-10 years waiting period at Jazz is sufficient)

piggy · Post by **piggy** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:10 am

Kickbacks for Jazz pilots at mainline:
A) You are not hired at AC because you are jazz(most guys interviewed so far have been PFO'ed)
B)You will most likely be offered a position after the majority of the hiring has taken place giving you a crap future
C)This means crap equipment , pay , and sched for the forseeable future
D)This means your stuck at jazz and to hoar yourself to get every possible extra jet at jazz and work for nothing to get them for the next 30 years of your career
E) If , as a new hire you are hired at JAzz you can kiss AC goodbye
F)The saga continues for the next 30 yrs. Thanks to ALPA,ACPA, AC MANAGEMENT and JAZZ MANAGEMENT-you have set up such a great career for professional pilots in canada

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:50 am

Kickbacks for Jazz pilots at mainline:
A) you are hired not only because of your experience but because you are in the ACE family.
B) you are given better seniority than others because you are in the ACE family
C) this means better equipment
D) better pay
E) better lifestyle.

Now quit your f*ckin' whinin' you little dipsh*t.

A. No, you get an INTERVIEW, NOT hired!!! Infact numbers indicate that the Jazz pilots percentages are way down after the interview. Seems odd that this is happeneing at the same time that Jazz has a pilot shortage. Maybe some inside dealings?

B. Not after they take 200 people off the street between your interview and your actual hire date due to Jazz being short pilots.

C. Better than 11, shittier than 200 on equipment.

D. After 2 years, small bump (I'll give ya that one).

E. Better than the 11 other guys in your groundschool, worse than the 200 hired before you.

In response to your final comment, well, you are a genius. Comments like that just fuel the battle for planes and work. 74 jets and counting. Can't wait until next round of negots. We are shooting for 100 plus!!!

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:14 am

Guys

This is starting to look like the old saying, give them an inch and they will take a foot.

Prior to 1995 there was no move up agreement at all. Most guys at Jazz who wanted to be at mainline already are. You bitch about people going to Jazz only to get a spot at mainline and now you bitch because they aren't taking enough from Jazz, or the "perks" are not good enough for you.

If you are happy at Jazz and have so much contempt for mainline, why do you bitch so much about not getting the interview?

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:47 am

I see this

,

, when it should be this

.

It's not all about the

Can't yall just get along...

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:56 am

One thing to take away from all the posts above is for guys like me working at neither right now, is to definitely, absolutely NOT apply at Jazz if your real goal is to work at mainline. That's the theory I'm operating on anyway.

Those already at Jazz are pissed that their agreement has been cancelled. But it would just be a typical, classic "pilot" move to ignore all the stuff written on here, apply at Jazz anyway and then proceed to bitch for the next 30 yrs about how hard done by you are. Its practically ingrained in our DNA as pilots for some reason.

There should be an interview question at Jazz right off the top, "Would you accept this job if it prevented you from working at Air Canada in the future?" That way all the cards are on the table, and if it were to ever change in the future ie. flowthrough agreement reinstated, then it would be purely as a new option.

BUSBAR · Post by **BUSBAR** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:18 am

The way I see it:

1- A new hire at Jazz (like King Air Guy) doesn't understand the frustration of working for Jazz for so many years and not being able to get an interview at AC because it's cheaper for AC to hire off the street. But after a few years sitting right seat Dash or RJ you'll get the message.

2- An AC pilot (even EX regional) understands the situation a little bit because maybe he had to wait 6 months to a year in the regionals before getting hired to mainline and now he doesn't really care anymore about the regionals because he just thinks about his position in mainline.

3- A pilot working for neither AC nor Jazz just hopes to get an AC interview or if it doesn't work out than a Jazz interview.

4- A new hire at AC (off the street) is just so happy to be at the mainline without having passed by the regionals so he doesn't really care about the frustrations of all the Jazz pilots...anyway he will be senior to all new Jazz hires into mainline. Even if the Jazz pilot worked for the regionals for so many years.

Jaques Strappe....i don't agree with "Most guys at Jazz who wanted to be at mainline already are"....that's true for Jazz pilots hired before early 1999 because after that most Jazz pilots didn't even get an interview!!!

BB

2low · Post by **2low** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:25 am

I think that Celin Dion will be singing the theme from Titanic in the near future.