Air Tindi Twin Otter Down

[Spandau]

Bob was indeed a most wonderful man, and a capable, fun, and happy teacher. In his own words, "a roving ambassador of goodwill". Working in a place that remote and having very little in the way of information or resources is not for the faint of heart, but he was very good at it. Those of us who knew him well miss him to this day, but accidents like that do and will happen. That is an unfortunate reality.

[Av8trn]

Glad no one seriously injured. Sad to see MAS damaged. Had many hours in it during the 80’s. I can relate to how this can happen very easily. Tough environment in the winter

[W5]

https://skiesmag.com/news/rcaf-aircrew- ... nd-rescue/

[digits_]

https://skiesmag.com/news/rcaf-aircrew- ... nd-rescue/

Nice interview! Must have been quite the experience for the rescue team (and the crashed pax of course).

[godsrcrazy]

Don't get me wrong i have nothing but respect for these guys. Let's not forget they picked this job and get trained and paid to do it. Just like Police getting shot at and going into buildings wondering if someone will take them out. Firefighters that go into burning structures to rescue people. The list goes on. I don't see articles going on for days about them.

It is annoying that no one is talking about or interviewing the “Mine works” that jumped on 4 snowmobiles and road across the Tundra in a “Blizzard”. From what i understand they arrived same time as the military. I guess it doesn't matter that they don't get paid to do this. They are just miners riding snowmobiles in a "BLIZZARD" to help.

For those of you on here that never experienced a Blizzard in the Barren lands you can’t imagine just how bad it can be. I have been there done that. You can’t see 5 feet in front of you but can look up and see clear sky. It’s not a great feeling. I know 2 guys that got caught in a Blizzard. They spent 5 days in scrub brush until the helicopters from the camp could get find them. It was extremely frustrating for the pilots they could see the clear blue sky but couldn’t see their helicopters 200’ away from the camp.

To be honest this is politics at its best justifying the money the tax payers pay to support this. I have no issue with that. In my opinion Hercules aircraft complete with medics are based in the wrong area. From the time of any call in the Arctic they are looking at 4 hours to Yellowknife for instance out of Winnipeg or Trenton. The Twin Otters based in Yellowknife are a joke.

[digits_]

Don't get me wrong i have nothing but respect for these guys. Let's not forget they picked this job and get trained and paid to do it. Just like Police getting shot at and going into buildings wondering if someone will take them out. Firefighters that go into burning structures to rescue people. The list goes on. I don't see articles going on for days about them.

Okay. And why is that relevant? Plenty of articles about police offers and firefighters out there as well.

It is annoying that no one is talking about or interviewing the “Mine works” that jumped on 4 snowmobiles and road across the Tundra in a “Blizzard”. From what i understand they arrived same time as the military.

It's literally mentioned in the article.

For those of you on here that never experienced a Blizzard in the Barren lands you can’t imagine just how bad it can be.

Articles like this might help to teach people how bad it could be.

To be honest this is politics at its best justifying the money the tax payers pay to support this.

Well... yes... It's an expensive program doing what it's supposed to do. Why does this matter?

[godsrcrazy]

Don't get me wrong i have nothing but respect for these guys. Let's not forget they picked this job and get trained and paid to do it. Just like Police getting shot at and going into buildings wondering if someone will take them out. Firefighters that go into burning structures to rescue people. The list goes on. I don't see articles going on for days about them.

Okay. And why is that relevant? Plenty of articles about police offers and firefighters out there as well.

Seriously this has gone on for over a week.

It is annoying that no one is talking about or interviewing the “Mine works” that jumped on 4 snowmobiles and road across the Tundra in a “Blizzard”. From what i understand they arrived same time as the military.

It's literally mentioned in the article.

Ya mentioned. These guys are as big of hero's as the Search and rescue guys that get paid to do this. I dont see pages of them being interveiwed.

For those of you on here that never experienced a Blizzard in the Barren lands you can’t imagine just how bad it can be.

Articles like this might help to teach people how bad it could be.

So where is the paragraphs in this article about the miners risking their lives that they don't get paid to do.

To be honest this is politics at its best justifying the money the tax payers pay to support this.

Well... yes... It's an expensive program doing what it's supposed to do. Why does this matter?

I will give you that if you have to justify your existence by other peoples misfortune.

[pdw]

The nose wheel/ski telescoped into the nose and underside of the cockpit and mangled it pretty badly, main gear is flattened, the right engine power section is torn out and dangling, and the wings are bent down and twisted forward.

This photo from the cabin radio site. Not sure about buffing out, but, from this angle looks like it can be fixed. Probly end up on the back of one of those big trucks going back empty from the mine later this season.

Interesting picture. I am curious if the picture shows the direction they were flying or if it has spun around after landing and this photo was taken from a viewpoint to make it look more dramatic.

The low angle sunlight is shining from the left side of the shot. So the aircraft there seems aimed approximately west … the road there aligned to SE/ NW (previous page map) yet landing simply parallel to it on ice would be lost as an easy option if the high wind’s direction (guessing) was howling from west over that ridge.

Edit: That sun is shining directly (brightest) onto bottom of fuselage at the tail (no shade there) so sun must be just up over horizon in Southeast … so it’s around 11-12 am in this photo.

[just clearing the trees]

The sun is always at a low angle in the barrens in December.

[pdw]

Sun altitude highest of the day there is 25 degrees above horizon. At the lowest point it is zero at sunrise, which is the same everywhere.

One interesting difference here at Niagara Falls, the dawn is half an hour before sunup but up there it was over an hour before ..

(Edit: rethinking previous post about sun’s angle)
Actually, the strong sunlight on the underbelly (photo above) must be its reflection mirroring back up off of a larger area of windpolished ice surface aft of the broken aircraft, from somewhere left of the photographer.

[godsrcrazy]

The lake at the Lac De Gras winter road camp is runs North South. I am thinking the hit the hill on the North end. You can google earth 64.25'06.02N 110.06'36.11w. That will show you the area.

[SpyPilot]

PDW:

Consider re-thinking all of your subsequent posts as well.

[-42]

Poor people that work and or fly there now. Back in the day before Discovery takeover/bankruptcy there was lots of good experienced pilots/AME’s there and slowly but surely dumpster fire ensued. Fortunately no one was killed but judging by the recent history of incidents it’s a matter of time before another incident occurs. I am sure current management will mitigate that.

[Hawtstart]

You'd think they were describing an accident that occurred on an ILS approach at 200 ft...

I can't tell from your comment whether or not you have experienced how driven snow in Arctic conditions behaves. It's difficult to picture if you haven't seen it. It can be utterly transparent from any viewing angle besides horizontal. It stays very close to the ground; I suppose it's a boundary-layer sort of effect, and is often only about fifty feet thick, often only twenty or even less.

I can remember many times approaching a skiway in the Arctic that I'd previously set up, marking it out using the time-honoured tradition of stuffing orange plastic leaf-bags with snow to mark the boundaries of the safe area. Flying overhead under a blue sky, and being able to see the bags perfectly clearly down below, all through the downwind, base, and final approach, only to have them completely disappear in the flare: pretty late for a safe go-around. One time I landed in such conditions with the second load of the day, and even though we were on the ground, I couldn't for the life of me find where I had left the first load. The tracks from our previous arrival had blown in and my F.O. wanted to look for the stuff on foot but I thought that wasn't a great idea. I wasn't sure we'd be able to find the plane again if we walked away from it. Remember, overhead it was blue sky with unlimited viz. If anyone had flown over at that moment, they would have seen us as clear as day, parked on the ice, standing beside our plane with the sun shining on us. I'm not kidding.

I know nothing about this accident, but I think people who have done this kind of flying won't be as quick to judge as those of you who have not. And I would hazard a guess, without excluding myself from this comment, that none of you are as free from the effects of distraction, complacency, and "get-there-itis" (a term I deplore) as you think you are. "That guy" who was lost against the side of a mountain along with his crew in Antarctica was a great guy: a mentor to many pilots over the years, particularly to those who chose to use their skills doing something other than scheduled 705 passenger work.

This is all very accurate to the challenges of working in that area during the winter months. Whiteout, flat light and blowing snow can come on quick even on the nicest days. Here’s a shot from an exploration camp about 20 miles NE of Diavik on a sunny clear day with a 20 knot wind.

IMG_1260-compressed.jpeg (99.9 KiB) Viewed 3293 times

[pelmet]

One can easily become lost if they wander way. I remember that CFS Alert had lifelines for use between buildings during storms. You can see a diagram of it at this link.....

https://campingcdn.blogspot.com/2013/10 ... -link.html

[pelmet]

Don't get me wrong i have nothing but respect for these guys. Let's not forget they picked this job and get trained and paid to do it. Just like Police getting shot at and going into buildings wondering if someone will take them out. Firefighters that go into burning structures to rescue people. The list goes on. I don't see articles going on for days about them.

It is annoying that no one is talking about or interviewing the “Mine works” that jumped on 4 snowmobiles and road across the Tundra in a “Blizzard”. From what i understand they arrived same time as the military. I guess it doesn't matter that they don't get paid to do this. They are just miners riding snowmobiles in a "BLIZZARD" to help.

For those of you on here that never experienced a Blizzard in the Barren lands you can’t imagine just how bad it can be. I have been there done that. You can’t see 5 feet in front of you but can look up and see clear sky. It’s not a great feeling. I know 2 guys that got caught in a Blizzard. They spent 5 days in scrub brush until the helicopters from the camp could get find them. It was extremely frustrating for the pilots they could see the clear blue sky but couldn’t see their helicopters 200’ away from the camp.

To be honest this is politics at its best justifying the money the tax payers pay to support this. I have no issue with that. In my opinion Hercules aircraft complete with medics are based in the wrong area. From the time of any call in the Arctic they are looking at 4 hours to Yellowknife for instance out of Winnipeg or Trenton. The Twin Otters based in Yellowknife are a joke.

It seems to me that you may be able to recognize blowing snow by things appearing to be just a bit fuzzy. The more the wind, the fuzzier it gets(obviously snow quality matters as well). Of course, at a regular airport with buildings, etc, you have a situation where the fuzziness stands out against a darker background. At a place like an offstrip location where the background may be all white, it is more difficult. A nice, sunny day should make it more easy to recognize this but if it is not sunny then it will be more difficult as it is already whiteout conditions.

Of course, one may be able to get an idea of windspeed using their GPS groundspeed to get an idea of wind speed while flying along fairly low. That being said, they were near Diavik so they may have had a wind source if none was available at their landing spot. It wouldn't surprise me if the Tindi crew were aware that it was fairly windy out but who knows. And it sounds like they had plenty of experience overall.

It is a class 3 investigation, so there will be a report.

While it was more for making sure we were not landing downwind, I used to check the groundspeed versus airspeed as we maneuvered closer to ice strips/offstrip for confirmation. It did happen once that we had been given opposite direction winds and changed the initially planned landing direction because of it.