Jet stream down

[sunk]

A jet stream went down at Fort Smith, not sure of anymore details.

[Justjohn]

https://cklbradio.com/2024/01/23/36467

[Justjohn]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7092137

[Old fella]

Tragic to say the least.

https://cklbradio.com/2024/01/23/36467/

[cncpc]

I hear it was the Yellowknife sked, although today is the Diavik run as well. Certainly darkness. Takeoff west. Immediate black hole.

[Happyflyer78]

Didn’t get airborne long to end up 500 meters from end of runway.

[Old fella]

Ok kids…. Keep going like this the moderator will turn off the Play Station and give the unruly children a time out. As it stands now there is conflicting info on number of passengers and crew, however been confirmed there are fatalities.

[Justjohn]

“Ok kids…. Keep going like this the moderator will turn off the Play Station and give the unruly children a time out. As it stands now there is conflicting info on number of passengers and crew, however been confirmed there are fatalities.”

As someone who has been flying since the mid 80’s I’m not taking too kindly to the kid’s reference. The skipper on that flight started his career even earlier. The only kids in this discussion are sitting on the sidelines throwing rocks at people who are hurting.

[bueno]

New fatality report from coroner says 6 dead. Four pax and two with one pax surviving and was transported to Yellowknife hospital

[PilotDAR]

throwing rocks at people who are hurting.

Yeah, how about no rocks at all. This is sad, and we have lost two of our colleagues, and their passengers, with someone really hurting...

[ShakyJake]

Does any one know what the weather conditions were.

[modi13]

I don't know exactly what time they took off, but the weather was pretty messy all morning.

SA 23/01/2024 17:00->METAR CYSM 231700Z 33003KT 290V360 12SM -SN OVC043 M19/M22 A2978 RMK SC8 SLP113=
SP 23/01/2024 16:24->SPECI CYSM 231624Z 32005KT 10SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2978 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP111=
SA 23/01/2024 16:00->METAR CYSM NIL=
SP 23/01/2024 15:34->SPECI CYSM 231534Z 32005KT 3SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2977 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP108=
SA 23/01/2024 15:00->METAR CYSM 231500Z CCA 32005KT 1 1/2SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2976 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP104=
SP 23/01/2024 14:22->SPECI CYSM 231422Z 31003KT 270V330 1SM -SN VV025 M19/M22 A2975 RMK SN8 SLP101=
SP 23/01/2024 14:01->SPECI CYSM 231401Z 29003KT 2SM -SN OVC073 M19/M22 A2975 RMK AC8 SLP102=

I also don't know what kind of de-icing equipment they have up there now, but when I was there about five years ago on a charter they didn't have a truck and we had to leave early to avoid some incoming freezing rain. Is the rotation speed on the Jetstream even high enough to use anti-icing fluid on it?

[Tbayer2021]

I don't know exactly what time they took off, but the weather was pretty messy all morning.

SA 23/01/2024 17:00->METAR CYSM 231700Z 33003KT 290V360 12SM -SN OVC043 M19/M22 A2978 RMK SC8 SLP113=
SP 23/01/2024 16:24->SPECI CYSM 231624Z 32005KT 10SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2978 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP111=
SA 23/01/2024 16:00->METAR CYSM NIL=
SP 23/01/2024 15:34->SPECI CYSM 231534Z 32005KT 3SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2977 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP108=
SA 23/01/2024 15:00->METAR CYSM 231500Z CCA 32005KT 1 1/2SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2976 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP104=
SP 23/01/2024 14:22->SPECI CYSM 231422Z 31003KT 270V330 1SM -SN VV025 M19/M22 A2975 RMK SN8 SLP101=
SP 23/01/2024 14:01->SPECI CYSM 231401Z 29003KT 2SM -SN OVC073 M19/M22 A2975 RMK AC8 SLP102=

I also don't know what kind of de-icing equipment they have up there now, but when I was there about five years ago on a charter they didn't have a truck and we had to leave early to avoid some incoming freezing rain. Is the rotation speed on the Jetstream even high enough to use anti-icing fluid on it?

Not sure if its fast enough, but other aircraft that normally rotate too slow for Type 4 can be allowed to use it by simply delaying rotation speed. We were allowed and often used Type 4 on the 208 at an old company I worked at. IIRC, it was then a flaps 0 take off and rotate at 95kts.

[digits_]

I don't know exactly what time they took off, but the weather was pretty messy all morning.

SA 23/01/2024 17:00->METAR CYSM 231700Z 33003KT 290V360 12SM -SN OVC043 M19/M22 A2978 RMK SC8 SLP113=
SP 23/01/2024 16:24->SPECI CYSM 231624Z 32005KT 10SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2978 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP111=
SA 23/01/2024 16:00->METAR CYSM NIL=
SP 23/01/2024 15:34->SPECI CYSM 231534Z 32005KT 3SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2977 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP108=
SA 23/01/2024 15:00->METAR CYSM 231500Z CCA 32005KT 1 1/2SM -SN OVC065 M19/M22 A2976 RMK SC8 WIND EST SLP104=
SP 23/01/2024 14:22->SPECI CYSM 231422Z 31003KT 270V330 1SM -SN VV025 M19/M22 A2975 RMK SN8 SLP101=
SP 23/01/2024 14:01->SPECI CYSM 231401Z 29003KT 2SM -SN OVC073 M19/M22 A2975 RMK AC8 SLP102=

I also don't know what kind of de-icing equipment they have up there now, but when I was there about five years ago on a charter they didn't have a truck and we had to leave early to avoid some incoming freezing rain. Is the rotation speed on the Jetstream even high enough to use anti-icing fluid on it?

What's so messy about the weather? Seems like a typical winter day. Light snow, freezing cold. It's not that conducive to icing. Nothing a Jetstream shouldn't be able to handle.

[modi13]

What's so messy about the weather? Seems like a typical winter day. Light snow, freezing cold. It's not that conducive to icing. Nothing a Jetstream shouldn't be able to handle.

Light snow reported, but vis down to 1 SM indicates that it was pretty close to moderate. This is pure speculation, but I suspect it was the first flight of the day for the aircraft and crew, so they pulled a warm plane out of the hangar into the snow, and the first flakes melted on the surface while they fuelled and loaded up so that it looked clear of contamination. By they time they were taxiing out, the metal was cold enough for the water to re-freeze and snow to build up further. Alternatively, the plane could have sat out all night and they assumed that some dry snow would blow off on the roll, but it didn't.

Of course, I have absolutely nothing to base this on, and it could equally be a mechanical malfunction that was completely beyond the control of the flight crew. However, there have been so many cases of aircraft crashing immediately after departure out of a northern strip because they didn't de-ice that I think it's a very strong possibility and a starting point for the investigation.

[oldncold]

condolenseces to all involved and hope that the suvivor makes a full recovery !!

1)the crew was professional and current the j31 has a c.v.r. so that should help narrow down causes .

2)possible pilot incapacitation> if that was the case at the most critical time of the take off. the other crew member would have more that a full plate to keep aircraft control fly physically restrain incapacitated crew . done that practice in sim many times . can be a challenge to hold a 250 lb crew from being entangled in the control yoke or peddals

3 engine failure above V1> if they were unable to feather the prop before the prop rpm decayed and the centrifugal locks engaged , in a very short space of time. then it may have become impossisble to stop the aircraft rolling over. again the investigators will be able to determine that with the impact point, and resting point of fusealage, prop blade position, the cvr should help along with gps if they were not destroyed in the post impact fire.

4) the afore mentioned icing scenarios enough said

5 ) factors that will be unearthed in the investigation

my sincere. sympathy to all involved.

[cncpc]

“Ok kids…. Keep going like this the moderator will turn off the Play Station and give the unruly children a time out. As it stands now there is conflicting info on number of passengers and crew, however been confirmed there are fatalities.”

As someone who has been flying since the mid 80’s I’m not taking too kindly to the kid’s reference. The skipper on that flight started his career even earlier. The only kids in this discussion are sitting on the sidelines throwing rocks at people who are hurting.

Well said. NWAL and the Town are really hurting right now.

[godsrcrazy]

Truly amazes me how insensitive people are on this forum. Not even 24 hours and people are being armchair investigators.

Makes me sick.

[rookiepilot]

Truly amazes me how insensitive people are on this forum. Not even 24 hours and people are being armchair investigators.

Makes me sick.

Agreed.

Same sort of people backing up the QEW when there is a nasty accident on the other side.

Phones out their windows. Lets get some video!

[cncpc]

What's so messy about the weather? Seems like a typical winter day. Light snow, freezing cold. It's not that conducive to icing. Nothing a Jetstream shouldn't be able to handle.

Light snow reported, but vis down to 1 SM indicates that it was pretty close to moderate. This is pure speculation, but I suspect it was the first flight of the day for the aircraft and crew, so they pulled a warm plane out of the hangar into the snow, and the first flakes melted on the surface while they fuelled and loaded up so that it looked clear of contamination. By they time they were taxiing out, the metal was cold enough for the water to re-freeze and snow to build up further. Alternatively, the plane could have sat out all night and they assumed that some dry snow would blow off on the roll, but it didn't.

Of course, I have absolutely nothing to base this on, and it could equally be a mechanical malfunction that was completely beyond the control of the flight crew. However, there have been so many cases of aircraft crashing immediately after departure out of a northern strip because they didn't de-ice that I think it's a very strong possibility and a starting point for the investigation.

My information is that at 6:30, in the town, there was wet snow falling with very large flakes. That is odd at -15, other than with an inversion. By 7, the snow had become smaller in flake size.

From my experience there, I would think that the aircraft had been in the hangar, or outside with heaters running all night inside. When the crew showed up, it would be towed to the terminal ramp. De icing would take place there, if a need for de-icing was perceived. On this flight, three passengers were no shows, but I expect there was a bit of a wait for them. If it had been de-iced, this delay would have likely exceeded the hold time for the de-icer. Sometimes, the morning aircraft would be left outside precisely so they didn't have snow falling on a warm airframe.

As some will know, there is an issue with plenums bursting on the Garrett's. Bearskin happened in Dryden, and there was a concerted effort to ensure that that was not an issue on their aircraft. They have/had excellent maintenance at NWAL and this was looked at immediately on every aircraft. It had to do with the boss welds on the plenum. The Mitsubishi at Terrace was also lost with this issue.

The First Officer had been on line for 8 months. If it was his leg, and something went wrong, that might not have been the best situation, that close to the ground.

A lot of guys with a seat on the big iron got their start at NWAL.

[cncpc]

The CVR may be helpful.

[-42]

The pilots, engineers and owners were always pleasant and professional to deal with in my experience. Never saw them panicked or in a rush. Something happened. Nobody’s knows yet. Leave it to the experts. Everyone should be respectful at this time. The North is a challenging place at the best of times and the people deserve respect. RIP.

[Sulako]

We know one thing for sure, which is that a lot of people are in real pain right now.

Let's try to be compassionate. There but for the grace...

[Old fella]

TSB released a couple of pictures from the actual accident site today.

[Sulako]

This thread is about a terrible accident and directly related events.

If you want to start a thread in the gen section about cockpit cams, be my guest.

I'll be toasting any further non-relevant discussion in this thread.