A Challenger 600 crashed on a Florida highway today - killing 2. There were 5 on board but right now it's not clear if the dead were in a car or the Challenger. Crew reported they lost both engines. Edit - Challenger 604.
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Shortly before aircraft tracking data showing the plane crashed into the highway, a pilot radioed air traffic controllers to report an emergency.
“Lost both engines. Emergency,” a pilot said in transmissions captured by LiveATC.net. “Make an emergency landing.”
An air traffic controller cleared the plane onto the runway and instructed another aircraft to hold short of the runway.
The pilot replied in the last recording heard on that recording from the aircraft: “Cleared to land, but we’re not going make the runway.”
No word yet on who survived out of the 5 on board. An eye witness claims three people walked away and were speaking with police. The aircraft also hit a truck — driver OK.
Will this plane have both CVR & FDR?
Hopefully some dashcam video will surface that might help the NTSB.
I Live not far away and I-75 SB is closed in the area.
Had to still have a fair amount of fuel with that amount of fire so I doubt it was air contamination in the lines. I was just there not too long ago. Lots of large birdies in SW Fla but you’d think he’d say we hit some large birds…
Challenger 604 has all the modern CVR and FDR requirements so we should get a full picture of what happened. It carries loads of fuel without consequence so guys usually carry lots extra, Engines are a variant of the A 10 Warthog engine that you can shoot with a cannon and they still keep running.
Is there a configuration in which both engines on a Challenger 600 would be running from the same fuel tank?
I've heard balancing fuel can be tricky on these planes, although most information there is about balancing on the ground. Any chance they could have tried to balance fuel for landing by running on the same thank at twice the expected fuel flow?
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Is there a configuration in which both engines on a Challenger 600 would be running from the same fuel tank?
Only in an abnormal situation as part of a checklist. Never simply to balance fuel. The Challenger was built to cross the ocean, we have double and triple redundancy on most system.
whistlerboy02 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:04 pmIs there a configuration in which both engines on a Challenger 600 would be running from the same fuel tank?
Only in an abnormal situation as part of a checklist. Never simply to balance fuel. The Challenger was built to cross the ocean, we have double and triple redundancy on most system.
Interesting. That only adds to the mystery. Double engine failure at the same time, it has to be fuel related.
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Digits, my first post was incorrect, we only manually transfer fuel forward from the tail as part of an abnormal checklist. The tail tank is irrelevant on a flight this short we would never use it.
Left/right transfers are standard procedure and done all the time. We generally go wings to an Aux/Collector tank, then it's redistributed to the engines. We also have a gravity crossflow.
Their was one dual engine failure in a Challenger which was fuel related, the pilots had lots of warning and ended up dead sticking it a night into a field and walked away. https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19940320-1
whistlerboy02 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:33 am
Digits, my first post was incorrect, we only manually transfer fuel forward from the tail as part of an abnormal checklist. The tail tank is irrelevant on a flight this short we would never use it.
Left/right transfers are standard procedure and done all the time. We generally go wings to an Aux/Collector tank, then it's redistributed to the engines. We also have a gravity crossflow.
Their was one dual engine failure in a Challenger which was fuel related, the pilots had lots of warning and ended up dead sticking it a night into a field and walked away. https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19940320-1
A good l;esson here. One might ask why the truck stopped pumping(filter blocked). Then reports of contamination in the fuel truck. Precautions taken by the crew and fuel sampled. Some water found but felt to be not out of the ordinary. With all this in mind after having sampled until no water is left(and understanding that water settles much more slowly in Jet fuel, the erratic fuel guage indications on the first flight are a definite warning of more contamination. Then the fuel filter bypass light in cruise on the second leg is another definite warning of a potential serious problem.
Erratic fuel guages can be your clue that there is still water in your tanks, at least on certain common types of fuel quantity fuel measuring systems(not sure of those that use sound). Sometimes it is just a bunch of little clues leading up to a sudden event.
Do the red levers to shut down ever wear out? Can the jump the track? Or is it possible to inadvertently catch the levers and shutdown as you close the thrust levers to slow down.
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Last edited by JustaCanadian on Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:11 am
Or is it possible to inadvertently catch the levers and shutdown and you close the thrust levers to slow down.
Not that I'm aware of. But still, for it to happen to both thrust levers at the same time? Quite unlikely.
Although unlikely, could have been a single engine failure that was mistakenly identified and turned into a double failure through crew actions. It’s happened before, ie British Midland Airways Flight 092
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whistlerboy02 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:33 am
Digits, my first post was incorrect, we only manually transfer fuel forward from the tail as part of an abnormal checklist. The tail tank is irrelevant on a flight this short we would never use it.
Left/right transfers are standard procedure and done all the time. We generally go wings to an Aux/Collector tank, then it's redistributed to the engines. We also have a gravity crossflow.
Their was one dual engine failure in a Challenger which was fuel related, the pilots had lots of warning and ended up dead sticking it a night into a field and walked away. https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19940320-1
This is not quite correct.
When the L/R Aux XFlow is opened fuel doesn’t go to an Aux/collector tank. It opens the Aux XFlow valve on the respective side which allows fuel by means of gravity to flow into the Aux tank. Fuel is then transferred to the opposite tank while a quantity is returned to its original tank by the transfer ejectors when in flight. Fuel for the engines only comes from the collector tanks which are extensions of the main wing tanks that reside within the Aux tank.
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