New Pay Increase for DH4 Captains

[Nomel]

Breaking

As of today management has increased DH4 CA scale above the E2 FO scale from year 1 to 15. Giving Encore and Jazz a run for their money.

Year 1 CA = $112/hr

...

Year 15 CA = $146/hr

[Dronepiper]

Those are the current hourly rates. You must have pasted the wrong numbers.

What are the new numbers?

[rudder]

$112-158.

[Dronepiper]

So literally no change from their previous numbers?

[dogfood]

I got a bold 1$ per hour raise. I hoping this attracts more pilots here so i dont have to work as hard.

[CaptDukeNukem]

So literally no change from their previous numbers?

There is a change. It’s marginal at best. I think the win goes to the Q FOs that have recently upgraded or close to upgrade or those holding off from upgrading . Read notes 1 and 2

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[CaptDukeNukem]

I got a bold 1$ per hour raise. I hoping this attracts more pilots here so i dont have to work as hard.

Better than nothing. No one asked for a raise. The Q rates are already industry leading for the same type. Take your extra dollar and give it to Trudeau.

[CaptDukeNukem]

There was also changes regarding sick pay, DH, and commuting rules, but cool, I guess it all boils down to your expensive downtown bachelor suite on stadium rd, versus take home pay.

[ogopogo]

Year 1 means years with the company (DOH), or years on type?

[clrdleftbase]

Some improvements but nothing to incentive people that weren't already going to upgrade. Latest Q upgrade bid had no bidders, doubt this will change that.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Year 1 means years with the company (DOH), or years on type?

You start at year one on your date of hire.

[Chaxterium]

Year 1 means years with the company (DOH), or years on type?

You start at year one on your date of hire.

Did they not state that they'd match years of service when it comes to pay level? Or was that only temporary?

Edit: Nope it's still in the ad.

Be recognized for your current Years-of-Service (in position) operating the Dash 8-400 at other carriers

So your seniority will be based on DOH but your pay will be based on the number of years as a Q4 captain regardless of company.

[flyinhigh]

I got a bold 1$ per hour raise. I hoping this attracts more pilots here so i dont have to work as hard.

Better than nothing. No one asked for a raise. The Q rates are already industry leading for the same type. Take your extra dollar and give it to Trudeau.

Actually the DH8 group did reach out which is why all this came to be. If you actually think chnages were made out of the kindness of their heart you are being blinded by their the E2 money.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I got a bold 1$ per hour raise. I hoping this attracts more pilots here so i dont have to work as hard.

Better than nothing. No one asked for a raise. The Q rates are already industry leading for the same type. Take your extra dollar and give it to Trudeau.

Actually the DH8 group did reach out which is why all this came to be. If you actually think chnages were made out of the kindness of their heart you are being blinded by their the E2 money.

Did not know this. Thank you for the clarity

[cjp]

We need a little industry competition to keep the salaries going. Right now the only ones negotiating a contract are AC and ALPA.

Looking forward to something positive from that camp so we can grow the salaries again here.

All I'm seeing though is signs of a strike. Great for Porter as a company cause we will have a whack of new customers transfering over, but likely will delay any big salary or conditions gains with our FOAG.

See what happens.

[goingnowherefast]

Encore is negotiating too.

[cjp]

Encore is negotiating too.

Encore will have a negligible effect on WAWCON at Porter unfortunately.

AC is the next big step.

[clrdleftbase]

The whole point of this recent update was to try and make the Dash at least somewhat attractive again for captains or potential upgrades - it’s unfortunate as it completely missed the mark again. Nothing was fixed - no bypass pay, no YOS transfer, no fix to flow (in fact, made it worse for FOs).

The Dash is quickly becoming a sinking ship; we can’t staff flying now in our slowest season. How’s the summer gonna go?

[CaptDukeNukem]

The whole point of this recent update was to try and make the Dash at least somewhat attractive again for captains or potential upgrades - it’s unfortunate as it completely missed the mark again. Nothing was fixed - no bypass pay, no YOS transfer, no fix to flow (in fact, made it worse for FOs).

The Dash is quickly becoming a sinking ship; we can’t staff flying now in our slowest season. How’s the summer gonna go?

Could be worse, you could be at jazz.

[TPP]

The whole point of this recent update was to try and make the Dash at least somewhat attractive again for captains or potential upgrades - it’s unfortunate as it completely missed the mark again. Nothing was fixed - no bypass pay, no YOS transfer, no fix to flow (in fact, made it worse for FOs).

The Dash is quickly becoming a sinking ship; we can’t staff flying now in our slowest season. How’s the summer gonna go?

Could be worse, you could be at jazz.

A Jazz FO now has a faster pathway to get to Porters E195 and upgrade than internal employees.

While it could always be worse, the fact is the present lackluster incentives towards upgrading on the Q400 are the reason why people are leaving instead of staying for the E195.

While you may feel like this doesn't effect you Duke, if the company starts parking planes and losing revenue it leaves less gravy to increase Jet salaries and QOL improvements on the E195 which are also expensive.

[goingnowherefast]

Fastest way to AC is work for Encore
Fastest way to WJ is work for Jazz
This is despite both entities having some form of transfer system to the respective non-regional side. Flow to their respective mainline is a joke with Encore and Jazz.

I thought and was hoping Porter would be better than this. I always had the impression it was the kind of company that worked on the principle of "take care of your employees and they'll take care of you".

[cjp]

The money from the E2s generally comes from accepting new tails, backend is inconsistently full on our routes, so I would hesitate to say they are making boat loads from passenger flying. It's likely breaking even right now as the brand establishes itself. Qs are good money when they are running.

Both sides complement each other well, but it's unfortunately a grass is actually greener scenario on the E2 side of things (more money, more efficiency in the pairings, and shinier metal).
There will always be a disparity between compensation between the 2 types - that's just the way it is. Fact is, Qs, other than downtown lifestyle, are not as desirable as the E2, and Porter for the next 2-3 years with the very active growth and limited pilot market will be fighting tooth and nail to keep it staffed. Because of the complexity and risks associated with the Q operation, it cannot be run as a training ground.

The upper management I'm sure are stressed but developing a plan. If I were a betting man, I would bet that they'll just transfer as much flying as possible to the E2 and reduce the load on the Qs.

ACs eventual TA, and Porter's response to the TA, both for Q and E2 will be the deciding factor if Porter can keep growing at this rate.

[carnie]

Management are delusional if they expect to continue to build the E2 expansion on the backs of the Q 400 operation. Sneaking language into the latest amendment to bypass seniority is not going to fly.

[Chaxterium]

Sneaking language into the latest amendment to bypass seniority is not going to fly.

Sorry but can you clarify this?

[carnie]

Currently as it stands-flow limited to 3 a month cumulative from Q to E2 for both CAs and now FOs. Earlier in the year a number of junior FOs were able to transfer as they lifted fleet lock. Some Q CAs have bid over as FOs and have been restricted from flowing over as this is now counted under the 3 a month. Furthermore E2 FOs can potentially undercut seniority to upgrade when that program starts up. A 2022 hire can now potentially upgrade to E2 CA before a Q CA who has been on property since 2017. There is no bypass pay currently in place to compensate those who are stuck on the Q due to the the 3 a month restriction. Plus no bypass or YOS have been awarded to those left behind while they continue to hire DECs every month.