DEC Jazz

[Nick678]

What’s the current status for DEC’s for 2024?

I remember seeing a hiring portal on their website for DEC’s last year. Haven’t seen it since Spring/Summer 2023.

Last rumours I hear was they had a lot of FO’s difficult to upgrade due to PIC hours needed and there was a lack of Left seat upgradable candidates. I’m curious if that was resolved or it’s still in effect in 2024. I know the internal flow list to AC is no more, so they probably apply as external. But I keep hearing many new AC groundschool guys are indeed from Jazz. How is that helping the shortage at jazz vs. the DEC issue?

I believe when you are hired if you are qualified, you could turn any FO spot into DEC, as long as there is a current vacancy for Captain on that equipment. I believe all positions have Captain vacancies, however, not many have been successful at the DEC spots.
If you have some good 705 left seat time, you might succeed, some ATPL qualified candidates have come through lately and chose to go right seat for a year and then bid over to the left seat, but you could bid it and be awarded at any time if that is your standing bid.
As for the flow list, I don’t know what you mean by “no more”, do you mean cancelled?
Any qualified Jazz pilot hired prior to Aug or Sept 2023 is entitled to 60% of the new hire positions at AC, after that date it’s 30%. So, hypothetically you as a new hire would be in the 30% but if no qualified Jazz pilots are on the list, you could theoretically skip them. I believe the qualifications stand at 2000 hours and an ATPL.

Why would you type that BS on flow?

[702pipeliner]

Ignoring what Happyflyer78 said because he is either a genius level troll or even jazz was able to determine his CRM skills were not ample for the operation.

I do believe if there is candidates in the groundschool that meet the atpl and a pulse requirements that some spots can be converted to a DEC postion. But they heavily encourage you not to in the groundschool and emphasize what experience they recommend you have before pursuing a DEC.

Jazz has a large problem that's ever increasing with qualified candidates to upgrade and those who can successfully upgrade. Lots of the fos who have been hired new contract prior to covid either are lifers at jazz or lifers because no atpl requirements ro proceed onto ac or other carriers. Lots of fos with good experience who could upgrade have already left.

DEC was fairly flawed because the challenge was the upgrade process was never developed with DEC in mind. Personally feom my experience background along with several others opted to be a first officer for several months and then upgrade. Unfortunately for me that time was shorter then anticipated with the reduction of flying outwest.

Flow is still a thing guys up to aug of 2022 are interviewing at ac. When they will get a gs is anyone's guess.

[cdnavater]

What’s the current status for DEC’s for 2024?

I remember seeing a hiring portal on their website for DEC’s last year. Haven’t seen it since Spring/Summer 2023.

Last rumours I hear was they had a lot of FO’s difficult to upgrade due to PIC hours needed and there was a lack of Left seat upgradable candidates. I’m curious if that was resolved or it’s still in effect in 2024. I know the internal flow list to AC is no more, so they probably apply as external. But I keep hearing many new AC groundschool guys are indeed from Jazz. How is that helping the shortage at jazz vs. the DEC issue?

I believe when you are hired if you are qualified, you could turn any FO spot into DEC, as long as there is a current vacancy for Captain on that equipment. I believe all positions have Captain vacancies, however, not many have been successful at the DEC spots.
If you have some good 705 left seat time, you might succeed, some ATPL qualified candidates have come through lately and chose to go right seat for a year and then bid over to the left seat, but you could bid it and be awarded at any time if that is your standing bid.
As for the flow list, I don’t know what you mean by “no more”, do you mean cancelled?
Any qualified Jazz pilot hired prior to Aug or Sept 2023 is entitled to 60% of the new hire positions at AC, after that date it’s 30%. So, hypothetically you as a new hire would be in the 30% but if no qualified Jazz pilots are on the list, you could theoretically skip them. I believe the qualifications stand at 2000 hours and an ATPL.

Why would you type that BS on flow?

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

[Nick678]

I believe when you are hired if you are qualified, you could turn any FO spot into DEC, as long as there is a current vacancy for Captain on that equipment. I believe all positions have Captain vacancies, however, not many have been successful at the DEC spots.
If you have some good 705 left seat time, you might succeed, some ATPL qualified candidates have come through lately and chose to go right seat for a year and then bid over to the left seat, but you could bid it and be awarded at any time if that is your standing bid.
As for the flow list, I don’t know what you mean by “no more”, do you mean cancelled?
Any qualified Jazz pilot hired prior to Aug or Sept 2023 is entitled to 60% of the new hire positions at AC, after that date it’s 30%. So, hypothetically you as a new hire would be in the 30% but if no qualified Jazz pilots are on the list, you could theoretically skip them. I believe the qualifications stand at 2000 hours and an ATPL.

Why would you type that BS on flow?

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

“How it’s supposed to work” - because it didn’t work.

Arbitrators don’t have time machines and there’s no guaranteed outcome from arbitration. Coming here and mentioning it like that is really bizarre. Are you management?

I know a few pilots waiting to flow over but can’t speak for total numbers. Hopefully pilots with ATPLs stay away from jazz.

[Turboprops]

Flow is still a thing guys up to aug of 2022 are interviewing at ac. When they will get a gs is anyone's guess.

If it’s anything less than the contractual required percentage, yeah I’d say the flow is NOT a thing anymore.
These guys interviewing now should’ve been at AC a year ago

[Turboprops]

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

So you think the grievance will get everyone their seniority at AC back? You think it’ll give those at Jazz a bunch of money to compensate loss of Jazz seniority/upgrades due to no movement/flow? I got a bridge in Mexico to sell you if you think the answer is yes

Also what 60% and 30% are you talking about? If they only hired 30% when it was supposed to be 60%, what percentage do you think they’ll hire when it’s “officially” 30%?

To answer your last question, I don’t care how many are still left, each and everyone of them 2000 hour ATPL qualified pilots that have applied to AC should’ve gone last year. The fact aug 2022 hires are still in the interviewing process means there’s no flow

[rudder]

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

So you think the grievance will get everyone their seniority at AC back? You think it’ll give those at Jazz a bunch of money to compensate loss of Jazz seniority/upgrades due to no movement/flow? I got a bridge in Mexico to sell you if you think the answer is yes

Also what 60% and 30% are you talking about? If they only hired 30% when it was supposed to be 60%, what percentage do you think they’ll hire when it’s “officially” 30%?

To answer your last question, I don’t care how many are still left, each and everyone of them 2000 hour ATPL qualified pilots that have applied to AC should’ve gone last year. The fact aug 2022 hires are still in the interviewing process means there’s no flow

By the time the cadre of 30% flow candidates are being interviewed, AC will be down to hiring 300(or less) total pilots per year (2025). So that ‘flow’ will equal 90 AC flow positions(or less) per year.

[Hysteria]

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

So you think the grievance will get everyone their seniority at AC back? You think it’ll give those at Jazz a bunch of money to compensate loss of Jazz seniority/upgrades due to no movement/flow? I got a bridge in Mexico to sell you if you think the answer is yes

Also what 60% and 30% are you talking about? If they only hired 30% when it was supposed to be 60%, what percentage do you think they’ll hire when it’s “officially” 30%?

To answer your last question, I don’t care how many are still left, each and everyone of them 2000 hour ATPL qualified pilots that have applied to AC should’ve gone last year. The fact aug 2022 hires are still in the interviewing process means there’s no flow

I had heard a rumour that I hope is not true - that those flowing are FOs and that captains are so needed at Jazz that they take longer to flow?

[goingnowherefast]

It's pretty obvious, no?
If you wanna work at AC, go to Porter, Encore, Perimeter, Wasaya, Inuit, Calm Air, Canadian North, etc. If you are already at Jazz, quit and go to one of the above.

FYI, the same applies to Encore flow to WJ.

Flow has proven to be a farce to suck people in to Jazz/Encore at suppressed wages for the (cough) *opportunity* (cough) to work for AC/WJ.

A grievance won't really work to correct the wrong done to those who were decieved. Maybe a consolation prize at best. A grievance is more to make the corporate overlords feel a consequence for breaking a promise.

At best, we can learn to never trust a corporation and look out for our own individual best interests. Big wigs prove constantly that they don't care about pilots.

[cdnavater]

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

So you think the grievance will get everyone their seniority at AC back? You think it’ll give those at Jazz a bunch of money to compensate loss of Jazz seniority/upgrades due to no movement/flow? I got a bridge in Mexico to sell you if you think the answer is yes

Also what 60% and 30% are you talking about? If they only hired 30% when it was supposed to be 60%, what percentage do you think they’ll hire when it’s “officially” 30%?

To answer your last question, I don’t care how many are still left, each and everyone of them 2000 hour ATPL qualified pilots that have applied to AC should’ve gone last year. The fact aug 2022 hires are still in the interviewing process means there’s no flow

No, I don’t think either of those things and I honestly don’t know what will be decided, it’s very difficult to determine harm because there are a ton of assumptions.

[Nick678]

[quote=Turboprops post_id=<a href="tel:1301099">1301099</a> time=<a href="tel:1710173110">1710173110</a> user_id=72066]
[quote=cdnavater post_id=<a href="tel:1300986">1300986</a> time=<a href="tel:1710081014">1710081014</a> user_id=78357]

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

So you think the grievance will get everyone their seniority at AC back? You think it’ll give those at Jazz a bunch of money to compensate loss of Jazz seniority/upgrades due to no movement/flow? I got a bridge in Mexico to sell you if you think the answer is yes

Also what 60% and 30% are you talking about? If they only hired 30% when it was supposed to be 60%, what percentage do you think they’ll hire when it’s “officially” 30%?

To answer your last question, I don’t care how many are still left, each and everyone of them 2000 hour ATPL qualified pilots that have applied to AC should’ve gone last year. The fact aug 2022 hires are still in the interviewing process means there’s no flow
[/quote]

No, I don’t think either of those things and I honestly don’t know what will be decided, it’s very difficult to determine harm because there are a ton of assumptions.
[/quote]

What are those assumptions? Just curious?

[cdnavater]

[quote=Turboprops post_id=<a href="tel:1301099">1301099</a> time=<a href="tel:1710173110">1710173110</a> user_id=72066]
[quote=cdnavater post_id=<a href="tel:1300986">1300986</a> time=<a href="tel:1710081014">1710081014</a> user_id=78357]

Which part do you have a problem with, that is the agreement and how it is supposed to work.
Do you think the grievance process won’t accomplish anything? Entitled means exactly that, they are supposed to get the benefit of 60%, now 30% flow. At some point an arbitrator will remedy this, to say it is no more or cancelled is not true, it’s still in the agreement.
Question for you, how many “qualified” pilots do you think are at Jazz right now who aren’t “flowing” but have applied.

So you think the grievance will get everyone their seniority at AC back? You think it’ll give those at Jazz a bunch of money to compensate loss of Jazz seniority/upgrades due to no movement/flow? I got a bridge in Mexico to sell you if you think the answer is yes

Also what 60% and 30% are you talking about? If they only hired 30% when it was supposed to be 60%, what percentage do you think they’ll hire when it’s “officially” 30%?

To answer your last question, I don’t care how many are still left, each and everyone of them 2000 hour ATPL qualified pilots that have applied to AC should’ve gone last year. The fact aug 2022 hires are still in the interviewing process means there’s no flow

No, I don’t think either of those things and I honestly don’t know what will be decided, it’s very difficult to determine harm because there are a ton of assumptions.
[/quote]

What are those assumptions? Just curious?
[/quote]

The assumptions for harm is when you would bid for a higher paying position, left seat, assuming successful, how do you determine this ahead of time. There is no way of knowing the outcome, so assumptions. Other harms might be quality of life, of reserve or a right seat widebody with 20 below you, hard things to quantify when there is absolutely no way to predict this until after someone with your presumed seniority bids this.
So, maybe a date where you might be and if someone who would have been junior gets this, so do you.

[PittBoss]

One of my friend just applied for DEC. But he really wanna move to West side preferably YYC or if not the YVR.

What is the schedule like? Super busy or average? And whats the In hand salary like?

[Inverted2]

One of my friend just applied for DEC. But he really wanna move to West side preferably YYC or if not the YVR.

What is the schedule like? Super busy or average? And whats the In hand salary like?

Probably be on reserve for a significant amount of time which isn’t fun. They would be junior to every captain as well as every F/O already here who does the upgrade.

[truedude]

One of my friend just applied for DEC. But he really wanna move to West side preferably YYC or if not the YVR.

What is the schedule like? Super busy or average? And whats the In hand salary like?

Probably be on reserve for a significant amount of time which isn’t fun. They would be junior to every captain as well as every F/O already here who does the upgrade.

As he says, they will be on reserve, working the worst schedule for a very long time. As every F/O on property who bids left seat will then be senior to him/her. So if you don't have any sort of life outside of work, it will work great. But if you have a family, start saving for the divorce.

[PittBoss]

Why so negative?

Are Jazz people against DEC?

[cdnavater]

Why so negative?

Are Jazz people against DEC?

Yes and no, what kind of experience does your buddy have although I suspect the above posts have nothing to do with that.
DEC is not a walk in the park, very few were successful and even some who could have bid it when they arrived, decided to go right seat for a bit and after less than 6 months right seat, were awarded the left, they also struggled for the most part.
If your buddy is a king air medevac captain with a a still wet ATPL, the likelihood of success as DEC is in the 20% range, however the negativity above is related to quality of life right now and they are merely pointing that as an FO they will move up a bit faster and get a better schedule, as DEC, they will be perpetually on the bottom getting the scraps and a reserve schedule, probably not even on the days off they might want, at least for the first year or two.
Cheers

[CaptDukeNukem]

Why so negative?

Are Jazz people against DEC?

Yes and no, what kind of experience does your buddy have although I suspect the above posts have nothing to do with that.
DEC is not a walk in the park, very few were successful and even some who could have bid it when they arrived, decided to go right seat for a bit and after less than 6 months right seat, were awarded the left, they also struggled for the most part.
If your buddy is a king air medevac captain with a a still wet ATPL, the likelihood of success as DEC is in the 20% range, however the negativity above is related to quality of life right now and they are merely pointing that as an FO they will move up a bit faster and get a better schedule, as DEC, they will be perpetually on the bottom getting the scraps and a reserve schedule, probably not even on the days off they might want, at least for the first year or two.
Cheers

I thought the FOUR days of CRM training during initial is supposed to help with that. “Open up that CRM toolbox.”

[Man_in_the_sky]

Why so negative?

Are Jazz people against DEC?

Yes and no, what kind of experience does your buddy have although I suspect the above posts have nothing to do with that.
DEC is not a walk in the park, very few were successful and even some who could have bid it when they arrived, decided to go right seat for a bit and after less than 6 months right seat, were awarded the left, they also struggled for the most part.
If your buddy is a king air medevac captain with a a still wet ATPL, the likelihood of success as DEC is in the 20% range, however the negativity above is related to quality of life right now and they are merely pointing that as an FO they will move up a bit faster and get a better schedule, as DEC, they will be perpetually on the bottom getting the scraps and a reserve schedule, probably not even on the days off they might want, at least for the first year or two.
Cheers

I thought the FOUR days of CRM training during initial is supposed to help with that. “Open up that CRM toolbox.”

God that was good

[goingnowherefast]

With such an atrocious success rate, what's the typical experience of incoming DECs?

If they already have 3000hrs of Dash/ATR command time, that says a lot about Jazz training. If it's 703 captains, then I'd understand and agree that the candidate probably just doesn't have the experience that will transition well into big company 705 command operations.

[truedude]

With such an atrocious success rate, what's the typical experience of incoming DECs?

If they already have 3000hrs of Dash/ATR command time, that says a lot about Jazz training. If it's 703 captains, then I'd understand and agree that the candidate probably just doesn't have the experience that will transition well into big company 705 command operations.

The few people who have been successful have exactly the type of experience you mentioned. But being a Captain is less about flying the plane and more about knowing the company’s operation and COM etc. That takes time to learn. The people who passed worked their asses off to learn that stuff.

There have been everything from high time flight instructors to people with nothing but 703 time try, and fail.