E2 new hires

[CaptDukeNukem]

Our training program is well structured. It is set up for success, Even with contract instructors at flightsafety. Put in the work you should be doing and you’ll succeed. Come with a bad attitude and it’s gonna show.

[M. Essaie]

"Even with contract instructors" - meaning you believe they are a liability?

[cjp]

"Even with contract instructors" - meaning you believe they are a liability?

We used to use Flight Safety instructors to establish the program. Flight Safety instructors, while very dedicated to facilitating technique and material don't fly the line, and aren't as familiar with the SOPs as used on a day to day basis. Some have never touched the aircraft - so what happens is you have someone teaching from a theoretical point of view. We have removed much of that and installed Porter contractors where it makes sense in the program. They are trained through our specific initial program before hitting the sims. While some don't fly the line, they go through our initial program, and interact with all our instructors, before teaching it.

Long of the short - program has improved dramatically in just over a year of operations. Is it where we want it - no. The training manager has big plans - but it takes time to get the train moving. We're getting closer - but it's like every class is an experiment - each one has had some or part of their program modified from the previous to improve the delivery.

[CaptDukeNukem]

"Even with contract instructors" - meaning you believe they are a liability?

Don’t put words into my mouth. That is not what I said.

Contract instructors know our SOPs and procedures. I was simply trying to explain this to some that are worried about it not being quality training when it’s outsourced.

[namngm]

Thank you aviators for all the responses and it's great to see movement on all aspects from outsource training, to in house etc. etc. as mentioned the train is moving and building up some speed.

Time to dust off the cobwebs and hit the books!!

[MD11]

Anyone have any insider knowledge on base transfers timeline? I heard only 6 F/O spots opened for YOW in June which makes me wonder how long a base transfer would take as a newcomer onto the E2.

[Grey_Wolf]

Anyone have any insider knowledge on base transfers timeline? I heard only 6 F/O spots opened for YOW in June which makes me wonder how long a base transfer would take as a newcomer onto the E2.

Actually it's 4. As per the FOAG language, 2 spots are guaranteed by the 33% fleet transfer from the dash ops. These 2 spots have been announced already. 6-2 leaves 4 spots open. The 4 spots are then open company wide, based on seniority; which could mean that those already in YOW on the dash may get it.

The VP of Flight Ops, IIRC, said on the last town hall phone call, that the plan was to have 30 in each position by the end of 2025. They also mentioned that the bids would be open monthly (or there about), and a slow trickle would occur, i.e. not cannibalizing the dash operation. As a new hire it may prove difficult to get into YOW. Anecdotally, based on some very quick math, a 10-12 seniority year guy may sit about halfway up on the CA side. As for the FO side, it should prove to be a little easier, as the third most senior FO in YOW only has 2 years with the company.

As a new hire, I would speculate that a holiday season/next spring would be inline.

[flyingpilot]

Anyone know how long until you can hold full blocks of flying once you start for jet fo? Also how often do you get called off reserve these days? Do most senior pilots get called first or last when it comes to reserve callout? Thanks

[flyinhigh]

You should be able to get a full block within a few months after line check. Really at this point it is just until those below are line checked so shouldn't be too long.

Reserve is assign on least block disruption and reverse seniority (i.e, think best fit). If the senior pilot has least block disruption, than the senior pilot will be assigned the pairing.

As a Captain, and someone who hasn't been on reserve I am unable to go into the intricate details of how it really works or the amount of flying reserve FO's do get.

[flyingpilot]

How much do we pay out of pocket for insurance including short and long term disability? Thanks

[Me262]

Anyone have any insider knowledge on base transfers timeline? I heard only 6 F/O spots opened for YOW in June which makes me wonder how long a base transfer would take as a newcomer onto the E2.

As a new hire, I would speculate that a holiday season/next spring would be inline.

As a new hire, you don't get to be hired at the base you apply for? (For example applying for the E2 in YVR)

[flyinhigh]

As a new hire, you don't get to be hired at the base you apply for? (For example applying for the E2 in YVR)

No, right now all hiring taking place will be to YYZ. YOW is already full up at the moment, with YUL to be announced soon. YVR will fill, most likely with internals as well with the folks who chose to commute for a short period so they can bid and get YVR later.

How much do we pay out of pocket for insurance including short and long term disability? Thanks

Benefits are actually quite cheap compared to some others. I am on the enhanced family plan which does cost more but was as follows;
Health and Dental - $196
STD - $29
LTD - $83

[Me262]

As a new hire, you don't get to be hired at the base you apply for? (For example applying for the E2 in YVR)

No, right now all hiring taking place will be to YYZ. YOW is already full up at the moment, with YUL to be announced soon. YVR will fill, most likely with internals as well with the folks who chose to commute for a short period so they can bid and get YVR later.

Will that change? Pilots get knocked around for applying to Jazz/AC using a system where you don't know if you can be close to home.

[cjp]

As a new hire, you don't get to be hired at the base you apply for? (For example applying for the E2 in YVR)

No, right now all hiring taking place will be to YYZ. YOW is already full up at the moment, with YUL to be announced soon. YVR will fill, most likely with internals as well with the folks who chose to commute for a short period so they can bid and get YVR later.

Will that change? Pilots get knocked around for applying to Jazz/AC using a system where you don't know if you can be close to home.

That's impossible to determine with any certainty at this point. The base draw at AC and Jazz are a pain - and a big drawback if the only equipment available means you'll be commuting for the foreseeable future. At Porter, as of right now, you start in YYZ on the E2 and bid for the bases. Eventually, what I see happening, is hiring for a specific base once the internal musical chairs has stopped.

[flyingpilot]

Just curious does anyone know when the current contract for porter ends? given Encore and Flair are voting on new contracts, would porter look into changing its pay scale any time soon?
thanks

[CaptDukeNukem]

Just curious does anyone know when the current contract for porter ends? given Encore and Flair are voting on new contracts, would porter look into changing its pay scale any time soon?
thanks

Since Porter does not presently have a union, there is no "contract". We have a Flight Ops Administrative Guide. (FOAG). Basically, a set of rules and policies that the company has agreed to. Because of this, there is no said expiry date. However, Porter utilizes benchmarking to make changes to the FOAG. Basically, they compare the payscales and certain other items to other airlines and make changes to their policies and payscales. This happens, I believe, at least once a year.

Attracting pilots at Porter is a must at the moment, I expect them to benchmark appropriately in the future.

[Chaxterium]

In addition to what Duke said, Porter did two benchmarks last year. The first one (Feb 2023 I believe?) is the only reason I'm here and then we got another one in August 2023 not long after the WestJet pilots got their new contract. I suspect there will be another one once the Air Canada contract is sorted out. That may take a while so maybe there will be another one in the near future but I'm not holding my breath.

[flyingpilot]

I've hearing that First Officers on the jet don't get an IPAD. is that true?? if so how do they prepare for flights???
thanks

[flyinhigh]

That’s correct. FOs get one during training, but it is taken away once complete.

Most FOs I fly with put the needed apps on their personal devices (I don’t agree with it, but that’s the way it is).

[flyingpilot]

so is there an expectation that First officers are supposed to have an ipad of their own?? and what happens if you don't have one??

[CaptDukeNukem]

so is there an expectation that First officers are supposed to have an ipad of their own?? and what happens if you don't have one??

The airplanes have their own iPads.

[Old fella]

Edited

[8895]

so is there an expectation that First officers are supposed to have an ipad of their own?? and what happens if you don't have one??

I’m an E2 FO. You can login to get the OFP on your phone, which is what I do. Haven’t found a way to get as detailed weather as I’d like in a simple way like you can on the company iPads.

In all seriousness though, it’s embarrassing that FO’s at this company don’t have an iPad of their own given to them for use. Someone has actually SMS’d this already, rightfully so. Seems like an unnecessary penny pinch by the company just to save a few bucks. From what I’ve seen a lot of pilots here are unaware that you can get the OFP through your web browser, so I can only imagine how many FO’s show up at a tail without seeing the grocery list of MEL’s before hand. For a company that touts itself as being high quality it really is a bush league policy.

[cjp]

so is there an expectation that First officers are supposed to have an ipad of their own?? and what happens if you don't have one??

I’m an E2 FO. You can login to get the OFP on your phone, which is what I do. Haven’t found a way to get as detailed weather as I’d like in a simple way like you can on the company iPads.

In all seriousness though, it’s embarrassing that FO’s at this company don’t have an iPad of their own given to them for use. Someone has actually SMS’d this already, rightfully so. Seems like an unnecessary penny pinch by the company just to save a few bucks. From what I’ve seen a lot of pilots here are unaware that you can get the OFP through your web browser, so I can only imagine how many FO’s show up at a tail without seeing the grocery list of MEL’s before hand. For a company that touts itself as being high quality it really is a bush league policy.

There are so many resources other than Jepp or WSI to get detailed enroute forecasting. Between NOC, and apps like Windy or websites like Skyvector (or the many other resources out there), the iPads aren't necessary. Everything else can be downloaded on FOA.

Half the time we don't get OFPs issued until the 11th hour, so with or without an iPad it's still a surprise when it comes to MELs. I could probably recite the common MELs and be right 90% of the time lol.

Honestly, way too much whinning about something so insignificant. If I could, I'd donate you mine if I didn't need it for Pelesys.

[8895]

so is there an expectation that First officers are supposed to have an ipad of their own?? and what happens if you don't have one??

I’m an E2 FO. You can login to get the OFP on your phone, which is what I do. Haven’t found a way to get as detailed weather as I’d like in a simple way like you can on the company iPads.

In all seriousness though, it’s embarrassing that FO’s at this company don’t have an iPad of their own given to them for use. Someone has actually SMS’d this already, rightfully so. Seems like an unnecessary penny pinch by the company just to save a few bucks. From what I’ve seen a lot of pilots here are unaware that you can get the OFP through your web browser, so I can only imagine how many FO’s show up at a tail without seeing the grocery list of MEL’s before hand. For a company that touts itself as being high quality it really is a bush league policy.

There are so many resources other than Jepp or WSI to get detailed enroute forecasting. Between NOC, and apps like Windy or websites like Skyvector (or the many other resources out there), the iPads aren't necessary. Everything else can be downloaded on FOA.

Half the time we don't get OFPs issued until the 11th hour, so with or without an iPad it's still a surprise when it comes to MELs. I could probably recite the common MELs and be right 90% of the time lol.

Honestly, way too much whinning about something so insignificant. If I could, I'd donate you mine if I didn't need it for Pelesys.

I’ll agree to disagree. There’s no reason I should be downloading the route manual from FOA or having to log into that site for something that should just be accessible from the content locker. We have too many different places for our documents already. There’s a reason other companies issue all of their pilots an iPad EFB, Porter shouldn’t be any different. The fact there are other resources for forecasts out there is completely besides the point lol